I am a non-believer

baskinshaw said:
I will continue the argument, sorry for doing so. But cables definitely make an audible difference. Some more than others and sometimes not for the better. But this is a big boys hobby with lots of wealthy players and my opinion is that if a 20000.00 cables sounds better to an individual than a 100.00 cable then by all means buyit if you can. Do I feel the small improvement is worth the price? No, but this hobby is not always about the music. It becomes a quest for the best possible sounding system one can afford to put together. If this were just based on the music then a modest 5k system would suffice. But this is a hobby that part of the fun is building the audio system first and enjoying the music second. I'm going to use a horsepower analogy. I know a fellow that owns a NHRA top fuel drag racing team. We were discussing power cords and I told him it would be minimal improvements compared to the money spent. He said " hell, I spend 150k for a half horsepower". But he is building the best possible motor he can. Same thing with cables, they need to be viewed as another component. If I had a Chevy Camaro I definitely would not spend 150k for half a horsepower. I think it all depends on where your trying to go with this crazy, awesome hobby.
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Interesting points and no less or more valid. For me though, it is all about the music. For me it's the listening to music and discovering music that is the most fun. The systems are just a means to an end I believe. However much anyone wants to spend on a system or any piece of it is up to the individual be it willingness, what they can afford, beliefs about any given object, etc. Personally, building systems and such is anything but fun to me (as long as it works is what counts for me), which begs the choice: A) All reasons for being in this hobby are equal or B) I'm in the wrong hobby?
 
baskinshaw said:
I will continue the argument, sorry for doing so. But cables definitely make an audible difference. Some more than others and sometimes not for the better. But this is a big boys hobby with lots of wealthy players and my opinion is that if a 20000.00 cables sounds better to an individual than a 100.00 cable then by all means buyit if you can. Do I feel the small improvement is worth the price? No, but this hobby is not always about the music. It becomes a quest for the best possible sounding system one can afford to put together. If this were just based on the music then a modest 5k system would suffice. But this is a hobby that part of the fun is building the audio system first and enjoying the music second. I'm going to use a horsepower analogy. I know a fellow that owns a NHRA top fuel drag racing team. We were discussing power cords and I told him it would be minimal improvements compared to the money spent. He said " hell, I spend 150k for a half horsepower". But he is building the best possible motor he can. Same thing with cables, they need to be viewed as another component. If I had a Chevy Camaro I definitely would not spend 150k for half a horsepower. I think it all depends on where your trying to go with this crazy, awesome hobby.
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David, you don't post much but I love your posts when you do. Well said, good sir.:scholar:
 
Thank you. Although I do not post much I am on the forum daily reading and enjoying all of the topics. I try to stay out of most conversations since I am a dealer for many of the brands/products that are talked about. I just don't want to come across as trying to push one brand or the other. But it is very relaxing to log on and read about what people are doing all over the world with Audio gear.
 
I sure wish that I could find some cable blinders to put on. I want to believe that they don't make I difference but I've auditioned enough in my system to realize that's not the case for me. Some are better, some worse, some just different. If I let them, cables drive me crazy. Talk about options!!!
 
baskinshaw said:
Thank you. Although I do not post much I am on the forum daily reading and enjoying all of the topics. I try to stay out of most conversations since I am a dealer for many of the brands/products that are talked about. I just don't want to come across as trying to push one brand or the other. But it is very relaxing to log on and read about what people are doing all over the world with Audio gear.
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Feel free to express your opinion like anyone else David. ...It don't matter what you do for a living, what matters is what your ears love to hear. :)
 
I am now at point where I believe good cables and clean power are the foundation of a system. With a good, solid, foundation moderate gear is able to perform at its peak, and any gear upgrades will perform at its potential right from the start. Without a good foundation you are missing out on the full potential your gear is capable of producing.

Of course, I had to hear it for myself as I went through various power and cable upgrades on my previous system, but now my current system is sounding great thanks to the foundation I built before. Live and learn, as the saying goes.
 
Go for solid core silver (Nordost or KK), or ultra-pure (or hyper-pure) copper (9Ns) or silver without impurities (KK).
...And solid (or plated) gold/platinum spades (or XLR balanced connectors), or lock-on banana plugs (German).
...Twisted (braid) with solid core. ...Titanium?

Teflon covering. ...Or equivalent insulation, or better.
 
You nailed it! I like the way you explained this and I absolutely agree that "it becomes a quest for the best possible sounding system one can afford to put together." I am going to use this in one of my blog posts somewhere. I have been doing a series of posts about improving the quality of digital sound. I think the order of the best way to spend your money is (1) power cords; (2) interconnects that carry the analog signal; (3) speaker cables: (4) interconnects that carry a digital signal starting with HDMI. There is an improvement in the digital realm only if you take a big jump like the Audioquest Vodka or Diamond, but these cables just carry 1's and 0's so it's more about speed or stability over long distances and the benefit is marginal in relation to the high cost of these digital cables. My sound quality series starts with this post: 12 Tweaks to Improve Headphone Sound Quality | Donald Scarinci
 
Be careful about the silver for power cords and cables that carry an analog signal. The silver tends to increase transparency which can alter the sound in a positive or negative way depending on the components and the cables you are using elsewhere. I am finding that there is a bit of alchemy with cables and pairing them correctly is very important to the sound you get.
 
Thank you for this post. You made me go back and test again using some less expensive Audioquest power cables and the PS Audio AC-5. You are right. Even these "inexpensive" power cords make a difference. I'm not hearing this with less expensive analog cables. The Audioquest stock cable is pretty good so I still think you need to make a big jump from these to hear the difference. There is a real difference between Audioquest stock and Nordost Tyre, Audience AU24 SE and Shunyata Python RCA cables, but I'm not hearing the difference between Audioquest stock and Cardas quadlink. I don't have the better Cardas Clear's to test. If I find that I'm wrong about the interconnects too, I will post again. In the meantime, thank you for making me go back to the listening. That's exactly what I love about this forum.
 
DScarinci1 said:
Be careful about the silver for power cords and cables that carry an analog signal. The silver tends to increase transparency which can alter the sound in a positive or negative way depending on the components and the cables you are using elsewhere.
I am finding that there is a bit of alchemy with cables and pairing them correctly is very important to the sound you get.
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Component's synergy; you got it. ...Silver cables are usually good with smoother electronics, not bright ones.
Cables (interconnects, speaker wires, AC power cords) are EQs in their own peculiar way; choose properly with your own peculiar audio electronic components. ...Fine-tune your "sound" to your own liking.
 
My friend Elrocco wish that he was in the non believer camp because he would have saved lot's of money because in his fine system he as 38k worth of top of the line Purist Audio Design yes it is lot's of money but like he say's IT'S MY MONEY also as no wife to tell him what to do that helps.:):):)

Système Elrocco 01.jpg Système Elrocco 02.jpg Système Elrocco 03.jpg
 
ohbythebay said:
Jeffkad...I am sort of with you...I say sort of because I feel there is a limit and diminishing returns.

Having good $30 or so interconnects with good specs, fine...but I can't buy into the $100's for cables school. There is some increase in percentage that is so miniscule that 1) Make it either irrelevant on a per cost factor or 2) If you spend $50k on a system, maybe you have no issue paying 2k on cables...because YOU CAN. But in double blind tests, decent cables vs HIGH HIGH end cables have been and are indistinguishable. (please, audiophiles who think otherwise, don't bash me..there are two schools of thought here)

I make sure I use good cables for interconnects. what do I consider good ? $10 to $30 a pair...depends on length - ones like this (I use component cables over normal RCA - better shielding, etc..) Sample...Dayton Audio RGB-6 Component Video Cable 6 ft. 181-672

Now speaker cables..I made my own and it made sense for the type...Probably cost me $60 or more to make a pair of 10 ft ...It is a good idea to get a twisted type speaker cable vers straight copper clear coated 16 or 12 gauge...See this link for DIY and why.
Low-Inductance DIY Braided Hi-Fi Speaker Cables

These DID make a difference worth the extra money (measured in $10's of dollars)..but would $200, $400, 4$1000 speaker cables sound better ? HELL NO..if they do it is of such small magnitude...

I use this analogy ...If a cold air breather costing $80 gave you 10 more HP , it is worth it right ? But if you spend $300 and you get 10.1 more hp ..is it worth it ? will you feel that .1 HP ? NOPE


But for me (speaking for myself ) cables are just part of the hobby you can overpay for. You can pay $30 for a dust brush or $300 for a dust brush...the latter does not remove 10x more dust...
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Well put Rob.
As for me? No comment.
 
Teo Audio: Liquid Cable


6moons audio reviews: Teo Audio Liquid Cable - 6Moons

Let's just say I am a believer.
3m speaker cables: approximately $40,000
I auditioned them in my system and definitely heard an impressive difference! Their reference grade IC's were pretty wonderful too. Most everything the 6moons review states is pretty much spot on. Nonetheless, I couldn't bring myself to spending that much money.

Flame on.
 
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