I am a non-believer

still-one said:
And I agree with both Bob (Northstar) and MrAcoustat. I want my cables and everything else to impact the sound and I prefer to leave subs for HT. There is no music I listen to with anything below 40hxz.
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The truth is, there is a lot of information below 40Hz, but it may not be important to you. In orchestral music, the impact (NOT the sustained tones) of typmani, bass drum are well below 40 Hz, tuba is below 40 Hz, piano and organ notes go below 40 Hz. I don't use subs in my music system, my regular woofers I have tested down to FIVE Hz and they do that just fine. I didn't want to go lower because there isn't any music I am aware of below that--which is three octaves below 40 Hz--and I didn't want to be concerned about going too close to DC. Woofers don't like that. Jazz also has a fair amount of very low frequency sound with percussion impacts. Those sounds last for a tiny fraction of a second, maybe a couple of cycles but it's there. It goes without question that rock music has a lot of sound below 40 Hz. I don't listen to electronic music, but forget about it, there is super low frequency sound there.
 
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Gary, we know that the lowest note of a piano is a0 (27.5Hz). ...But how many pianists hit it and how many times?

Synthesizers can hit 20Hz or so. ...But is it sweet music? ...If it is then three-four good subs should take care of it.

Movies, most of them don't go below 30Hz or so. ...Best bass 'punch' is in the 40Hz region.

Maxell's add; it's for the true fanatics.

Classical operas with full orchestral symphony; live's best.

Cables; they are like wines, some they please the palate and body, others the soul and spirit.
 
Bob, you need to hear the Roger Bobo's tuba CD "Bobissimo". It has very low tuba works, including the 16 Hz tones his tuba produces.

I will agree with you on the cables may be good for the soul.

Classical opera WAS best live until PA systems were ubiquitously used in opera houses--like when we were teenagers and opera singers had to actually belt it out for their salaries. Now, I go if I want to see the sets. The truth is, I can't stand the noises the audience makes, so I enjoy it more at home. (The guy telling people to be quiet at The Met is me!) Besides, I can only listen to one CD of opera at a time before I have to walk around a little. I come back for disk #2 and/or disk 3 after a good half hour break, otherwise, I'll just sleep through it, and better for me to do that at home than with a $175 or $200 ticket.
 
We buy our loudspeakers according to the music genres we love and for the appropriate marriage to our listening room.

I know few who require those around 16Hz vibes. ...Others are perfectly satisfy with a lower range of 32Hz.

I even respect people who can reproduce in their own environment the volcanic 8Hz earthquakes.

Personally, I'm a little guy, and my room is relatively small (say medium), and 24Hz seems to be my middle ground (useable; 30Hz clean).
- I do have some recordings (sound effects) with low 5Hz frequencies from Telarc, but helas can't do those with my gear, speakers, and all that jazz. ...And even if I could, I'd rather go outside and play golf. :D
 
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Sad to say but just as the new gear arrived and while setting it up I broke a banana off of one of the amp ends of my Wire world silver eclipse 6 speaker cable.
so while this was being fixed I made my own speakercable bi wired from 12 ga with 24K gold banana connectors (8) total for each cable. I have used this for 2 weeks
and love the sound. I am confused now for sure . So am I a believer yes and no I think
 
NorthStar said:
Best ones are the WBT German locked-on type.
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All of the WBT parts I've used (locking bananas, binding posts, Locking RCAs) have been top notch parts.. and I've never actually used their top-line pieces.

Of course like with everything in this crazy hobby, there are those who say WBT parts don't sound as good as others.
I'm the first to admit my ears are not quite good enough to detect the difference between binding post A and binding post B.
...but I do believe in ghosts, I do I do I do believe in ghosts. :)
 
Just like a loonie2.jpg there are two sides to this debate, the believers & the non believers, i'm from the believer camp BUT not over the top believer, all i want is DECENT cables, - my interconnects are Gabriel Gold Rapture R - my speaker cables are Tara Labs Temporal Continuum - my power cords ( 4 ) are Grant Fidelity PC-1.5 - and i use a Grant Fidelity RPF-120 power conditioner for extra receptacles, these are all reasonable priced cables and they do the job, could it be better ????? the answer is yes but all these cables are better than what the stock units come with.
 
I'm way in the non-believer section. In fact, I hate cables....seriously. I use what I use and I won't mention the cables I use because it leads to violence in my veiw. I will say that I have tried (at no cost thank goodness) a couple of those expensive cables. One made no difference at all and the other actually introduced major RF interference. I only tried them to satisfy those who said I never tried cables. I fulfilled my obligation. That's just my experience with my gear. I don't begrudge anyone who uses or likes the 3 and 4 digit cables or what have you. I say enjoy if you can do it.
I will say though, that I made my own speaker cables, complete with the pants, terminators, heatshrink and fancy covering (forgot what it's called) and it was actually, pretty fun, I must say. Cost me well under 3 digits and to me they are the same as the 4 digit ones in all respects. Of course, I can't prove it because it's just my own opinion based on my ears and I'm not an electronics expert. What I am, is someone trying to do a hobby that my income does not support.
I wish there was gear that didn't use cables.
I find much bigger differences or improvements in sound not to mention cost effectivness with room treatment, speaker placement and speakers themselves and even EQ, if needed.
Just my worthless opinion. Everyone's mileage will vary.
 
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MusicDirector said:
I'm way in the non-believer section. In fact, I hate cables....seriously. I use what I use and I won't mention the cables I use because it leads to violence in my veiw. I will say that I have tried (at no cost thank goodness) a couple of those expensive cables. One made no difference at all and the other actually introduced major RF interference. I only tried them to satisfy those who said I never tried cables. I fulfilled my obligation.
I will say though, that I made my own speaker cables, complete with the pants, terminators, heatshrink and fancy covering (forgot what it's called) and it was actually, pretty fun, I must say. Cost me well under 3 digits and to me they are the same as the 4 digit ones in all respects. Of course, I can't prove it because it's just my own opinion based on my ears and I'm not an electronics expert. What I am, is someone trying to do a hobby that my income does not support.
I wish there was gear that didn't use cables.
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I did too ...and posted it here..but that's what is cool about audio shark...believer or non-believer, we all respect each others opinions...there are no CERTAINTIES that people have to fight to the death over ..lol

You know what is going to happen don't you? One of these days I am going to try some expensive interconnects and start preaching the cable gospel ...The Book Of Rob...:exciting:
 
MusicDirector said:
I'm way in the non-believer section. In fact, I hate cables....seriously. I use what I use and I won't mention the cables I use because it leads to violence in my veiw. . . . .I find much bigger differences or improvements in sound not to mention cost effectivness with room treatment, speaker placement and speakers themselves and even EQ, if needed. . . . .
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Well said!

The more you spend on cables the more you have to tell yourself how big a difference they make!

Different cables are said to affect the sound differently, hence the need for different cables with different equipment, but it is strange that everyone always gravitates to the more expensive cables to be "better" in their system. No one ever trades DOWN to cheaper cables because they sound better in their system and no one does completely blind listening. VEDDY INTERESTING. I wonder why?????
 
GaryProtein said:
Well said!

The more you spend on cables the more you have to tell yourself how big a difference they make!

Different cables are said to affect the sound differently, hence the need for different cables with different equipment, but it is strange that everyone always gravitates to the more expensive cables to be "better" in their system. No one ever trades DOWN to cheaper cables because they sound better in their system and no one does completely blind listening. VEDDY INTERESTING. I wonder why?????
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Gary,

To the point you've made, I can say I'm that fool who cycled through $20k worth of cables(Nordost TYR loom to Valhalla loom), and now settle down with about $3,500 loom in my system. The AZ is actually sounded best in my system, but of course everyone's MMV...:D
 
GaryProtein said:
Well said!

The more you spend on cables the more you have to tell yourself how big a difference they make!

Different cables are said to affect the sound differently, hence the need for different cables with different equipment, but it is strange that everyone always gravitates to the more expensive cables to be "better" in their system. No one ever trades DOWN to cheaper cables because they sound better in their system and no one does completely blind listening. VEDDY INTERESTING. I wonder why?????
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I went from $2,000 MIT cables to $300 BJC/WBT cables.
 
GaryProtein said:
Well said!

The more you spend on cables the more you have to tell yourself how big a difference they make!

Different cables are said to affect the sound differently, hence the need for different cables with different equipment, but it is strange that everyone always gravitates to the more expensive cables to be "better" in their system. No one ever trades DOWN to cheaper cables because they sound better in their system and no one does completely blind listening. VEDDY INTERESTING. I wonder why?????
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I have to be honest...I have never tried really expensive cables BUT I have had cables make a difference.

Exanple - changing tonearm wires to Litz wires..made a difference...and cost under $30 to do so.

I made some really cool speaker cables (have shown them here before) that cost under $100 and they made a difference.

For me though, that's the extent of what I will spend as I believe the value is a set of diminishing returns. If spending $500 made my sound go from awesome (which it is now) to "wow..I am in the studio"..then I would do it...but truly, I think the change (if any) is much more subtle. There is only so much a cable can do truly...just simple physics.

Now if you have 50 or 60K in a system and feel that 3k is a good investment in cables, that's really your call (and your money..lol) but truly, if you have spent thousands on cables, have you ever done bling side by side tests? Most people don't. they get expensive cables and they perceive a difference (not saying all) but that perception is not based on A - B, A B sound testing. Its based on "well I think it sounded like this, and this seems better_..But does it?

I am not debating at all (posts don't give tone or inflection) but this is a very valid question. I have seen studies that say in blind tests, there is no difference...

Know what though? I like to think "To each his own..whatever makes the listener happy"...because that's all that counts !!!
 
^^^^^ Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying cables make no difference what so ever. You can't use cables that have crappy construction and bad shielding where they pick up hum.

From my posts near the start of this thread, I do say the conductors and insulation should be hefty and you need good solder joints with connectors that are strong enough to withstand years of insertions and removal.

What you don't need to do is spend hundreds or certainly not thousands of dollars on a cable or interconnect to achieve the above criteria.

From your description of what you have done with your cables and what you expect from them, I think we're in the same ballpark.

Just to be clear, I am NOT using $1.98 radio shack cables. :D :D :D
 
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ohbythebay said:
I have to be honest...I have never tried really expensive cables BUT I have had cables make a difference.

...
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+1. I do think cables make a difference. Some changes may be subtle, but still important to the perceived 'realness' of the music. I just find the pricing of some cables difficult to swallow. :bonkers:
 
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