I am a non-believer

Jeffkad

Jeffkad

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Joined
Apr 5, 2013
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Location
Long Island NY
I have to be a non-believer. I have spent WAY too much money on this hobby already. I do not want to spend more. Stop telling me that cables make a difference. I do not want to hear that. Please stop!!! STOP!!! Arrrrrggggghhhhhhh (resistance is futile)

Sorry. Just had to get that out of my system:bonkers::bonkers:
 
A difference isn't always better! I had silver WW cables and they drove me bonkers (I was warned by a friend but didn't listen).
 
Jeffkad...I am sort of with you...I say sort of because I feel there is a limit and diminishing returns.

Having good $30 or so interconnects with good specs, fine...but I can't buy into the $100's for cables school. There is some increase in percentage that is so miniscule that 1) Make it either irrelevant on a per cost factor or 2) If you spend $50k on a system, maybe you have no issue paying 2k on cables...because YOU CAN. But in double blind tests, decent cables vs HIGH HIGH end cables have been and are indistinguishable. (please, audiophiles who think otherwise, don't bash me..there are two schools of thought here)

I make sure I use good cables for interconnects. what do I consider good ? $10 to $30 a pair...depends on length - ones like this (I use component cables over normal RCA - better shielding, etc..) Sample...Dayton Audio RGB-6 Component Video Cable 6 ft. 181-672

Now speaker cables..I made my own and it made sense for the type...Probably cost me $60 or more to make a pair of 10 ft ...It is a good idea to get a twisted type speaker cable vers straight copper clear coated 16 or 12 gauge...See this link for DIY and why.
Low-Inductance DIY Braided Hi-Fi Speaker Cables

These DID make a difference worth the extra money (measured in $10's of dollars)..but would $200, $400, 4$1000 speaker cables sound better ? HELL NO..if they do it is of such small magnitude...

I use this analogy ...If a cold air breather costing $80 gave you 10 more HP , it is worth it right ? But if you spend $300 and you get 10.1 more hp ..is it worth it ? will you feel that .1 HP ? NOPE


But for me (speaking for myself ) cables are just part of the hobby you can overpay for. You can pay $30 for a dust brush or $300 for a dust brush...the latter does not remove 10x more dust...
 
One more note...this is why I made my own cables VS spending a fortune on "designer brands" . See the chart for what really happens...LOL

72153_636537443028388_106610192_n.jpg
 
Jeffkad said:
I have to be a non-believer. I have spent WAY too much money on this hobby already. I do not want to spend more. Stop telling me that cables make a difference. I do not want to hear that. Please stop!!! STOP!!! Arrrrrggggghhhhhhh (resistance is futile)

Sorry. Just had to get that out of my system:bonkers::bonkers:
Click to expand...

Jeff, my Salon 2 brother, welcome !! How did I miss you joining our little forum ?
 
Mark - How do the Salon 2's sound with a pair of Classe CA-M600's?

Was the best pairing still the ML53's?

Mike
 
Cables are like tubes, just one more thing to roll, the more of them you have to play with the more fun you can have, I have cables that cost hundreds and some that cost twenty dollars and they have all found a place to live at one time or another, I won’t say that cables that cost thousands are a waste of money because I’ve never tried any (I would like to but the wife just doesn’t think that this is a good idea :D).
 
Mike said:
A difference isn't always better! I had silver WW cables and they drove me bonkers (I was warned by a friend but didn't listen).
Click to expand...

Hi Mike, can you imagine what it would have been IF you didn't own a sweet sounding speaker like the Sonus Faber, if you want to hear BRIGHT match those silver cables with french speakers, you will not only hear the flies fly you will also hear the female scream when making out.:):)
 
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MrAcoustat said:
Hi Mike, can you imagine what it would have been IF you didn't own a sweet sounding speaker like the Sonus Faber, if you want to hear BRIGHT match those silver cables with french speakers, you will not only hear the flies fly you will also hear the female scream when making out.:):):)
Click to expand...

That's scary!
 
MDP said:
Jeff, my Salon 2 brother, welcome !! How did I miss you joining our little forum ?
Click to expand...

Mark, what say Dude? :hi: (OK, my 15 yr old son says that, at 55 yrs old, I am not allowed to use the term dude LOL). As you know from my journey at that other forum, it took me a while to warm up to those Salons, but boy, are they singing now. They must be killer for you with those monoblocks!

PS- "Behavior Moderator?" Now that's a title! :D Wouldn't it be cool if you had the power to do that everywhere in life? "Hey you over there, I don't like the way you're behaving, tone it down." "Ah, yes sir Mr Moderator.":)
 
Well...
I've used some rather cheap but decent speaker cables (Black Rhodium, English brand, 10£/m), and then bought WW Silver Eclipse speaker cables.
I still had B&W XT4's then.
Even with these speakers, there was a huge difference. My wife could confirm that we heard a lot more detail, and we could put the amplifier much lower in volume because we simply heard more and understood voices better. The music sounded much more "in the room".
 
We tend to spend way too much money on cables but for various reasons.
My opinion is that I do not want my main system to perform even a small percentage under its weight so I have bought "real cables " for that. But did not spend fortunes either. My main system cables are worth about 6 or 7k on a total cost of the system of about 100k so they are still at a reasonable level.
With very transparent and high end gear, cables effects can be heard very clearly. You do not have necessarily to spend fortunes. The only point is to be very happy with the final sound. But you cannot buy any piece of metal wire and get rid of the problem.
On my very little system : BiFrost Dac, Squeeze Box, Shindo Apetite and Klipsch Heresy III, the effects of changing cables is really huge, especially for the digital coax cable between the SB and the Dac. You just cannot ignore them.
In this system I used the cables to finely tune the sound to my tastes, like with an equaliser : I lowered and sweetened the treble response by using a carbon made Van den Hul " The First " analog IC.
I get almost zero effect with the power cables. JC VERDIER told me that in France, the power is very clean in most cases and people spend fortunes in power cables and power conditioning / filtering for very very little effects.
I miss the old times of HiFi. My MC2205 really does not care which cables I use with it, IC or speakers : it always sound musical and delicious. I guess that gear was made with a different approach than the extreme transparency of most today's gear....
 
MrAcoustat said:
Hi Mike, can you imagine what it would have been IF you didn't own a sweet sounding speaker like the Sonus Faber, if you want to hear BRIGHT match those silver cables with french speakers, you will not only hear the flies fly you will also hear the female scream when making out.:):):)
Click to expand...

I agree. French speakers are really too clear for me.
 
Jerome W said:
We tend to spend way too much money on cables but for various reasons.
My opinion is that I do not want my main system to perform even a small percentage under its weight so I have bought "real cables " for that. But did not spend fortunes either. My main system cables are worth about 6 or 7k on a total cost of the system of about 100k so they are still at a reasonable level.
With very transparent and high end gear, cables effects can be heard very clearly. You do not have necessarily to spend fortunes. The only point is to be very happy with the final sound. But you cannot buy any piece of metal wire and get rid of the problem.
On my very little system : BiFrost Dac, Squeeze Box, Shindo Apetite and Klipsch Heresy III, the effects of changing cables is really huge, especially for the digital coax cable between the SB and the Dac. You just cannot ignore them.
In this system I used the cables to finely tune the sound to my tastes, like with an equaliser : I lowered and sweetened the treble response by using a carbon made Van den Hul " The First " analog IC.
I get almost zero effect with the power cables. JC VERDIER told me that in France, the power is very clean in most cases and people spend fortunes in power cables and power conditioning / filtering for very very little effects.
I miss the old times of HiFi. My MC2205 really does not care which cables I use with it, IC or speakers : it always sound musical and delicious. I guess that gear was made with a different approach than the extreme transparency of most today's gear....
Click to expand...

Jérôme, I agree with your excellent post.
The same price ratio cables/total system can be found in my system.
I don't think you have to spend crazy amounts of money to get 99.8% out of your system, but you do have to purchase decent cables.
My speaker manufacturer also has this opinion.
 
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