Tariff implications.........

[atmasphere]

Fair enough—choosing not to act is a valid option. However, I believe the imbalances we’re seeing go far beyond barber services. China’s trade, tariff, and import/export policies are heavily skewed in its favor, often at the expense of others. These practices aren’t just aggressive—they’re strategic and, in many ways, predatory.

I don’t claim to have all the answers, but as I mentioned in an earlier post, my views are shaped by living in China for ten years. From my perspective, the Chinese government isn’t simply pursuing economic growth—it’s playing a long game designed to elevate China back to its historic role as the “Middle Kingdom.” The goal is to strengthen the Chinese Communist Party and the state, often to the detriment of the U.S. and the West

For years, China has systematically acquired Western technology through a range of legal and illicit means. Local governments—essentially state-funded corporate arms of the Party—have been tasked with developing massive industrial capacity. We’ve seen this in steel and shipbuilding, where overproduction, subsidized by cheap capital (including funds from global institutions like the World Bank), has flooded global markets. The result? Depressed prices and widespread job losses elsewhere.

This isn’t free or fair trade. It’s economic warfare under the guise of open markets

Yes! I agree China has done and continues to do things that are in its favor, and some of them predatory. They share that with the US. One of the things that bugs me personally is the lack of IP protections. But I don't think tariffs is the way to do it since its a pretty blunt instrument, whose usefulness has decreased over time. Instead I think we need to be more careful about what is shipped by us to China. Its a negotiation. But trade imbalance isn't a bad thing to have. It simply means we buy more from them because we have the money to do so.

None of this will be solved quickly because it took decades for it all to get to where China is with us right now. Its not as if the alarm wasn't sounded decades ago about manufacturing being cheaper overseas. But I suspect to correct the situation requires a bit of subtlety rather than a blunt instrument. China is in a position now that tariffs won't hurt them nearly so much as they hurt us.

You stated that the tariffs hurt farmers, but it wasn't Trump's fault. I asked you who imposed the tariffs and you said Trump. You speak with a forked tongue.

No, I don't. When you distort my position as you have done here (since I didn't say what you claim) then you can make it appear that way to you.

You said everyone should have learned about tariffs in the third grade. You also said having a trade imbalance isn't a bad thing, it's just a thing. Did you learn that in the third grade too?

No. And what I said is correct.

The issue of trade imbalance is far more complex than what would be taught in the third grade, but your statement that trade imbalances aren't a bad thing sounds like it came from a third grade understanding of trade imbalances.

... And of course I didn't learn that in 3rd grade! You have to be careful about putting words in my mouth because they don't fit . This is another excellent example of a made up story.

Made up stories appear to be why we are going back and forth. I think we agree more than we disagree (for example I'm well aware of trade imbalances being considerably more complex; I merely described what one is in simple terms), but I have a made up story right now that you have pigeonholed me by thinking I'm a Democrat (which I can see could cause some rancor), which I am not. I think I would be better described as a Constutionalist.

I guess some went to better schools than others.

That is certainly true! When I arrived in Minnesota in 1970 from Michigan, I found my classes repeating things from my time in Michigan. I regret that I didn't push my folks to convince the school to allow me to skip a year.

 

[Shadowfax]

Yes! I agree China has done and continues to do things that are in its favor, and some of them predatory. They share that with the US. One of the things that bugs me personally is the lack of IP protections. But I don't think tariffs is the way to do it since its a pretty blunt instrument, whose usefulness has decreased over time. Instead I think we need to be more careful about what is shipped by us to China. Its a negotiation. But trade imbalance isn't a bad thing to have. It simply means we buy more from them because we have the money to do so.

None of this will be solved quickly because it took decades for it all to get to where China is with us right now. Its not as if the alarm wasn't sounded decades ago about manufacturing being cheaper overseas. But I suspect to correct the situation requires a bit of subtlety rather than a blunt instrument. China is in a position now that tariffs won't hurt them nearly so much as they hurt us.


No, I don't. When you distort my position as you have done here (since I didn't say what you claim) then you can make it appear that way to you.

No. And what I said is correct.

... And of course I didn't learn that in 3rd grade! You have to be careful about putting words in my mouth because they don't fit . This is another excellent example of a made up story.

Made up stories appear to be why we are going back and forth. I think we agree more than we disagree (for example I'm well aware of trade imbalances being considerably more complex; I merely described what one is in simple terms), but I have a made up story right now that you have pigeonholed me by thinking I'm a Democrat (which I can see could cause some rancor), which I am not. I think I would be better described as a Constutionalist.

That is certainly true! When I arrived in Minnesota in 1970 from Michigan, I found my classes repeating things from my time in Michigan. I regret that I didn't push my folks to convince the school to allow me to skip a year.

And what grade did you learn about Tariffs and Trade Deficits?

 

[mep]

Yes! I agree China has done and continues to do things that are in its favor, and some of them predatory. They share that with the US. One of the things that bugs me personally is the lack of IP protections. But I don't think tariffs is the way to do it since its a pretty blunt instrument, whose usefulness has decreased over time. Instead I think we need to be more careful about what is shipped by us to China. Its a negotiation. But trade imbalance isn't a bad thing to have. It simply means we buy more from them because we have the money to do so.

None of this will be solved quickly because it took decades for it all to get to where China is with us right now. Its not as if the alarm wasn't sounded decades ago about manufacturing being cheaper overseas. But I suspect to correct the situation requires a bit of subtlety rather than a blunt instrument. China is in a position now that tariffs won't hurt them nearly so much as they hurt us.


No, I don't. When you distort my position as you have done here (since I didn't say what you claim) then you can make it appear that way to you.

No. And what I said is correct.

... And of course I didn't learn that in 3rd grade! You have to be careful about putting words in my mouth because they don't fit . This is another excellent example of a made up story.

Made up stories appear to be why we are going back and forth. I think we agree more than we disagree (for example I'm well aware of trade imbalances being considerably more complex; I merely described what one is in simple terms), but I have a made up story right now that you have pigeonholed me by thinking I'm a Democrat (which I can see could cause some rancor), which I am not. I think I would be better described as a Constutionalist.

That is certainly true! When I arrived in Minnesota in 1970 from Michigan, I found my classes repeating things from my time in Michigan. I regret that I didn't push my folks to convince the school to allow me to skip a year.

Nobody is putting words in your mouth or making up stories. People can read what you wrote for themselves. Even third graders could figure it out.

 

[Shadowfax]

Trump did. I was being critical of the tariffs, not him in case it wasn't obvious. I'm critical of Navarro because he mislead Trump about how they work. You appear to be creating meaning where meaning did not exist; IOW making up a story.

What is an 'export tariff'?? I'm beginning to think you don't know how tariffs work. I hope you can disabuse me of that notion- everyone on this thread should have been taught about tariffs in elementary school.

You have made it clear you don't trust news outlets. But if you google it you'll find that farmers are very concerned.

This might help clear things up- (google is your friend) WRT to tariffs imposed on US ag by other nations in response to the recent US tariffs.

If I was in charge I'd not worry about it. A trade imbalance isn't a bad thing. It simply means you bought more from someone than they did from you. It means you have money to buy things, perhaps more than the people you bought from. If you get a haircut and pay a barber, you have a trade imbalance unless he buys something from you. IOW a trade imbalance isn't a good or bad thing, its just a thing.

You can see with all the stories around 'trade imbalance', people get all worked up over nothing. I explained earlier about how if we try to live our lives according to made up stories, its likely we will suffer for it.

I did google what you originally claimed, that Farmers were selling their Seeds and Equipment after a week or two of Tariffs on China. The link you posted talks about "Concerns" not about what you claimed. I have not found an article to corroborate the original claim.

 

[atmasphere]

And what grade did you learn about Tariffs and Trade Deficits?

3rd or 4th grade about tariffs and trade deficits (or imbalances) well after college.

Nobody is putting words in your mouth or making up stories.

This statement is false. Made up stories can be quite simple and humans use them all the time. One example is how you've been distorting my position. That is both making up stories and because they are made up, attempting to put words in my mouth, IOW you are saying I said things I didn't.

I did google what you originally claimed, that Farmers were selling their Seeds and Equipment after a week or two of Tariffs on China. The link you posted talks about "Concerns" not about what you claimed. I have not found an article to corroborate the original claim.

Correct. If you read the post wherein I posted that link, I was stating it might clear up the issue about what farmers are facing WRT shipping crops overseas.

 

[Shadowfax]

3rd or 4th grade about tariffs and trade deficits (or imbalances) well after college.

This statement is false. Made up stories can be quite simple and humans use them all the time. One example is how you've been distorting my position. That is both making up stories and because they are made up, attempting to put words in my mouth, IOW you are saying I said things I didn't.

Correct. If you read the post wherein I posted that link, I was stating it might clear up the issue about what farmers are facing WRT shipping crops overseas.

OK thanks for clarifying that this previous statement is either false or has nothing to back it up - "Right now due to the loss of overseas markets, many farmers don't have a good idea of what to plant. Some are selling off their seeds and equipment,"

If this were true, every Fake News outlet would be plastering this all over to discredit the "Person"

 

[atmasphere]

OK thanks for clarifying that this previous statement is either false or has nothing to back it up - "Right now due to the loss of overseas markets, many farmers don't have a good idea of what to plant. Some are selling off their seeds and equipment,"

If this were true, every Fake News outlet would be plastering this all over to discredit the "Person"

I did not clarify it being false nor that there is nothing to back it up. Your assumption seems to be that since I provided no link that it must be false or the like. I merely reported what I was told by someone who does it for a living. I've no doubt, based on how people have responded just on this thread, that he would want to keep his head down.

Its not hard to find corroboration of my statement though.. Here's some:
https://www.farmprogress.com/farm-business/are-farmers-going-out-of-business-in-2025-
A different perspective:
https://www.agriculture.com/how-will-tariffs-impact-farm-equipment-markets-11711337
another:
https://nypost.com/2025/04/28/busin...risis-as-trump-tariffs-shrink-chinese-orders/

 

[Shadowfax]

I did not clarify it being false nor that there is nothing to back it up. Your assumption seems to be that since I provided no link that it must be false or the like. I merely reported what I was told by someone who does it for a living. I've no doubt, based on how people have responded just on this thread, that he would want to keep his head down.

Its not hard to find corroboration of my statement though.. Here's some:
https://www.farmprogress.com/farm-business/are-farmers-going-out-of-business-in-2025-
A different perspective:
https://www.agriculture.com/how-will-tariffs-impact-farm-equipment-markets-11711337
another:
https://nypost.com/2025/04/28/busin...risis-as-trump-tariffs-shrink-chinese-orders/

Thanks for the links. I understand where you are coming from but there was no mention about selling seeds and most equipment sales were Surplus Equipment to free up cash.

This is a great takeaway from one article-

A White House official told The Post that the Biden-era contract has been eliminated, but if the application meets requirements for the administration’s Advancing Markets for Producers (AMP) initiative, Shoemyer and other farmers should expect to receive a larger share of the project’s federal dollars.

“President Trump is eliminating Biden era climate slush funds and cutting bureaucracy and bloat in order to put farmers first. More money is going to farmers instead of NGOs,” White House deputy press secretary Anna Kelly told The Post.

 

[atmasphere]

Thanks for the links. I understand where you are coming from but there was no mention about selling seeds and most equipment sales were Surplus Equipment to free up cash.

This is a great takeaway from one article-

A White House official told The Post that the Biden-era contract has been eliminated, but if the application meets requirements for the administration’s Advancing Markets for Producers (AMP) initiative, Shoemyer and other farmers should expect to receive a larger share of the project’s federal dollars.

“President Trump is eliminating Biden era climate slush funds and cutting bureaucracy and bloat in order to put farmers first. More money is going to farmers instead of NGOs,” White House deputy press secretary Anna Kelly told The Post.

Right. The takeaway being the 'free up cash' part. My relative didn't mention anything about what sort of equipment he saw for sale; merely that it was happening. So we can see this bit as being on the same page.

 

[the professor]

The CNN article you linked to shows that China backed off tariffs for certain semiconductors they need as well as some aircraft parts they need like landing gears and engine nacelles. I saw no mention of relief on farm crops.

I was just pointing out that China has not stopped ALL imports as was stated.

 

[the professor]

Trump did. I was being critical of the tariffs, not him in case it wasn't obvious. I'm critical of Navarro because he mislead Trump about how they work. You appear to be creating meaning where meaning did not exist; IOW making up a story.

What is an 'export tariff'?? I'm beginning to think you don't know how tariffs work. I hope you can disabuse me of that notion- everyone on this thread should have been taught about tariffs in elementary school.

This came up as a quick google search of “export tariff”

An export tariff is a tax placed on a good that is exported from a country. Governments use tariffs to create economic barriers to trade. Tariffs raise the overall prices of goods, limiting their production and sale. An export tariff specifically increases the cost to sell domestic goods overseas. Because they are perceived to hurt domestic business, export tariffs tend to be quite unpopular.