Tariff implications.........

atmasphere said:
Actually China has plenty of markets. That is part of why the tariffs won't work on them.

Your story about 'removing Income Taxes and putting money back into peoples pockets is Punishment?' while a nice sentiment is a made up story; its not real. If the US were to impose tariffs, the way to do it would have been to do it slowly- the boiling frog. Doing it so quickly got everyone's attention, simply causing disruption and instability, something we can all agree on that markets don't like.

Not at all and not what I said. If you want to get to the bottom of things its helpful to not distort things in this manner. I noticed also you didn't answer my prior questions.
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There were no questions in your post to me that contained the story about confused farmers selling seeds and their farming gear.
 
mep said:
There were no questions in your post to me that contained the story about confused farmers selling seeds and their farming gear.
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Hard to get any good hits on this besides the following-

Yes, farmers are often selling their seeds and farm equipment, particularly when facing financial difficulties or when they are downsizing or retiring from farming. While some farmers save their own seeds, they generally don't have the means to sell them for commercial purposes.

We also have China buying up US Farmland as well as the guy who wants us to eat bugs and lab grown meat.
 
Shadowfax said:
Hard to get any good hits on this besides the following-

Yes, farmers are often selling their seeds and farm equipment, particularly when facing financial difficulties or when they are downsizing or retiring from farming. While some farmers save their own seeds, they generally don't have the means to sell them for commercial purposes.

We also have China buying up US Farmland as well as the guy who wants us to eat bugs and lab grown meat.
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The reasons you gave makes sense for farmers who are retiring or going out of business. It made no sense that farmers would be selling their gear and their seeds because of Trump.
 
mep said:
There were no questions in your post to me that contained the story about confused farmers selling seeds and their farming gear.
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I didn't say anything about 'confused'. That bit is something you made up, despite your 'no questions' assertion. I said they didn't know what to plant. That's a lot different!

This is an excellent demonstration of how stories can get made up.
 
mep said:
The reasons you gave makes sense for farmers who are retiring or going out of business. It made no sense that farmers would be selling their gear and their seeds because of Trump.
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Its not because of Trump. That part is also made up by you. Its because tariffs are cutting them off from their marketplaces.
 
mep said:
The reasons you gave makes sense for farmers who are retiring or going out of business. It made no sense that farmers would be selling their gear and their seeds because of Trump.
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I have not found anything to corroborate the original claim so it would be great if anyone could post a few links to articles about it from news outlets not identified as getting NGO money to tell stories to keep people in fear.
 
Shadowfax said:
I have not found anything to corroborate the original claim so it would be great if anyone could post a few links to articles about it from news outlets not identified as getting NGO money to tell stories to keep people in fear.
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This info was posted by Ralph which came from a relative that tells farmers what crops to plant.
 
the professor said:
Last I heard about 1/2 of Kansas wheat was exported and there are no export tariffs on them.
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Last I heard China is refusing all shipments from the US until all tariffs are lifted. Boeing had to turn their planes around and fly them back to the US. Last time this happened the American taxpayer had to pay $27 billion in farmer bailouts.
 
Randy Myers said:
Last I heard China is refusing all shipments from the US until all tariffs are lifted. Boeing had to turn their planes around and fly them back to the US. Last time this happened the American taxpayer had to pay $27 billion in farmer bailouts.
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So what would you do if faced with the imbalances the US faces? China buys only what it strategically needs from the US and essentially blocks everything else. If the US continues to let China dictate the worlds commerce, we and the world will wake up one day with huge costs, withheld supplies and war at a front door.

I know you don’t (or choose not to) see that but - THAT is the game we are in.

No doubt some industries and the people related are going to see change - perhaps painful change. But the game being played is a long game of survival of a country.

My humble opinion. You may not agree. Great. We won’t share a beer.
 
Randy Myers said:
Last I heard China is refusing all shipments from the US until all tariffs are lifted. Boeing had to turn their planes around and fly them back to the US. Last time this happened the American taxpayer had to pay $27 billion in farmer bailouts.
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This from CNN sorta says you are wrong and in fact China has reduced some of their tariffs. ???? Who knows if it’s true tho considering everything.

 
the professor said:
This from CNN sorta says you are wrong and in fact China has reduced some of their tariffs. ???? Who knows if it’s true tho considering everything.

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The CNN article you linked to shows that China backed off tariffs for certain semiconductors they need as well as some aircraft parts they need like landing gears and engine nacelles. I saw no mention of relief on farm crops.
 
crwilli said:
So what would you do if faced with the imbalances the US faces? China buys only what it strategically needs from the US and essentially blocks everything else. If the US continues to let China dictate the worlds commerce, we and the world will wake up one day with huge costs, withheld supplies and war at a front door.

I know you don’t (or choose not to) see that but - THAT is the game we are in.

No doubt some industries and the people related are going to see change - perhaps painful change. But the game being played is a long game of survival of a country.

My humble opinion. You may not agree. Great. We won’t share a beer.
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Craig, I'm not gonna 'share' one with you but I'd gladly buy you one ;)
 
mep said:
Who put the tariffs in place that are cutting them off from their marketplaces?
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Trump did. I was being critical of the tariffs, not him in case it wasn't obvious. I'm critical of Navarro because he mislead Trump about how they work. You appear to be creating meaning where meaning did not exist; IOW making up a story.
the professor said:
Last I heard about 1/2 of Kansas wheat was exported and there are no export tariffs on them.
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What is an 'export tariff'?? I'm beginning to think you don't know how tariffs work. I hope you can disabuse me of that notion- everyone on this thread should have been taught about tariffs in elementary school.
Shadowfax said:
I have not found anything to corroborate the original claim so it would be great if anyone could post a few links to articles about it from news outlets not identified as getting NGO money to tell stories to keep people in fear.
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You have made it clear you don't trust news outlets. But if you google it you'll find that farmers are very concerned.

This might help clear things up- (google is your friend) WRT to tariffs imposed on US ag by other nations in response to the recent US tariffs.
crwilli said:
So what would you do if faced with the imbalances the US faces?
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If I was in charge I'd not worry about it. A trade imbalance isn't a bad thing. It simply means you bought more from someone than they did from you. It means you have money to buy things, perhaps more than the people you bought from. If you get a haircut and pay a barber, you have a trade imbalance unless he buys something from you. IOW a trade imbalance isn't a good or bad thing, its just a thing.

You can see with all the stories around 'trade imbalance', people get all worked up over nothing. I explained earlier about how if we try to live our lives according to made up stories, its likely we will suffer for it.
 
atmasphere said:
….

If I was in charge I'd not worry about it. A trade imbalance isn't a bad thing. It simply means you bought more from someone than they did from you. It means you have money to buy things, perhaps more than the people you bought from. If you get a haircut and pay a barber, you have a trade imbalance unless he buys something from you. IOW a trade imbalance isn't a good or bad thing, its just a thing.

You can see with all the stories around 'trade imbalance', people get all worked up over nothing. I explained earlier about how if we try to live our lives according to made up stories, its likely we will suffer for it.
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Fair enough—choosing not to act is a valid option. However, I believe the imbalances we’re seeing go far beyond barber services. China’s trade, tariff, and import/export policies are heavily skewed in its favor, often at the expense of others. These practices aren’t just aggressive—they’re strategic and, in many ways, predatory.

I don’t claim to have all the answers, but as I mentioned in an earlier post, my views are shaped by living in China for ten years. From my perspective, the Chinese government isn’t simply pursuing economic growth—it’s playing a long game designed to elevate China back to its historic role as the “Middle Kingdom.” The goal is to strengthen the Chinese Communist Party and the state, often to the detriment of the U.S. and the West

For years, China has systematically acquired Western technology through a range of legal and illicit means. Local governments—essentially state-funded corporate arms of the Party—have been tasked with developing massive industrial capacity. We’ve seen this in steel and shipbuilding, where overproduction, subsidized by cheap capital (including funds from global institutions like the World Bank), has flooded global markets. The result? Depressed prices and widespread job losses elsewhere.

This isn’t free or fair trade. It’s economic warfare under the guise of open markets
 
crwilli said:
Fair enough—choosing not to act is a valid option. However, I believe the imbalances we’re seeing go far beyond barber services. China’s trade, tariff, and import/export policies are heavily skewed in its favor, often at the expense of others. These practices aren’t just aggressive—they’re strategic and, in many ways, predatory.

I don’t claim to have all the answers, but as I mentioned in an earlier post, my views are shaped by living in China for ten years. From my perspective, the Chinese government isn’t simply pursuing economic growth—it’s playing a long game designed to elevate China back to its historic role as the “Middle Kingdom.” The goal is to strengthen the Chinese Communist Party and the state, often to the detriment of the U.S. and the West

For years, China has systematically acquired Western technology through a range of legal and illicit means. Local governments—essentially state-funded corporate arms of the Party—have been tasked with developing massive industrial capacity. We’ve seen this in steel and shipbuilding, where overproduction, subsidized by cheap capital (including funds from global institutions like the World Bank), has flooded global markets. The result? Depressed prices and widespread job losses elsewhere.

This isn’t free or fair trade. It’s economic warfare under the guise of open markets
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This is a great set of essential points. I have maintained for many years seeing all that you reference unfold, coupled with aggressive Chinese financial institution moves to buy up huge amounts of debt and other predatory financial moves in many countries including the US, Argentina, Pakistan and elsewhere that the Chinese government no longer needs a miltary per se as they are practicing global conquest through Capitalism.
 
atmasphere said:
Trump did. I was being critical of the tariffs, not him in case it wasn't obvious. I'm critical of Navarro because he mislead Trump about how they work. You appear to be creating meaning where meaning did not exist; IOW making up a story.
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You stated that the tariffs hurt farmers, but it wasn't Trump's fault. I asked you who imposed the tariffs and you said Trump. You speak with a forked tongue.

You said everyone should have learned about tariffs in the third grade. You also said having a trade imbalance isn't a bad thing, it's just a thing. Did you learn that in the third grade too?

The issue of trade imbalance is far more complex than what would be taught in the third grade, but your statement that trade imbalances aren't a bad thing sounds like it came from a third grade understanding of trade imbalances.
 
Kids are too busy learning about Pro Nouns in 3rd grade in order to distract from any real education so our country can fail. Been a very long con game playing out that is about to end. Unfortunately, when I was in Grade School in the 60s, the word Tariff was never mentioned. Not in Jr High or High School. I guess some went to better schools than others.
 
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