High-End Audio - Obsolete?

Feanor said:
We might add a special category of equipment enthusiast however, many of whom aren't strictly dumpster divers: those would be the vintage equipment lovers. Often it's the aesthetic they love, not the sound so much, e.g. what's not to love about this face ...

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Or this one ...

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That's me!:exciting:
 
CPP, just a few comments on what you said:

1. The box stores thrive when the regular brick'n'mortar dealers don't have a clue. It used to be that you paid more for auditions and a personalized set-up. Now we are reaching the time when dealers sell High-End Audio like carpets, with no advice for installation and no personal involvement. So why not buy over the 'net, since I'm better qualified to get the most of my system than an authorized dealer?

2. Yes the young crowd is mobile! Just stop trying to sell them super-tweaked turntables and start offering whatever they want. No problem: some day they'll settle down and start looking for tubes, vinyl and all the associated tweaks. But then you're not going to be there, because you tried to sell truffles to T-bone steak lovers. You had your chance, and no excuse for not using it!

3. No opinion about tax rates and other similar items: looks as your twice-elected president is socialist, but then it was your choice, so what you vote is what you have.
N.B Same here, but fortunately most of us found ways to circumvent taxation... but then, this another story!
 
iosiP said:
Mark, I wouldn't blame the dealers (yes some of them are unable to setup a system, but most started this business out of passion and it shows in their way of doing business).
No, the blame lays on the manufacturers, with some of them using deceptive specs and inflated prices to sell their ware: how would you call a sports car advertised as 350HP but only outputting 80, or a luxury watch touted as having an in-house movement running at 36,000BPH that proves to have a cheap Chinese movement with a lowly 18,000? I think these would be called scams and the National Bureau for Customer Protection (or whatever it's called in each country) would step in fast'n'furious. Now should I name names of High-End Audio products that are as overrated as the car/watch I mentioned, but nobody gives a damn about it? I know I could (and so could you, as a dealer), but this would be useless since such pieces of poor engineering get regular prize in S'phile and their ilk.

Some of my friends are audio dealers and I know enough horror stories about lack of basic QC, poor after-sales service and products that the manufacturers insist upon even if they are not salable (and for good reasons). BTW, have you ever changed the plug on an AC cord? I did, and what I discovered when removing the factory-installed cord made me gush... and I am talking about four digits prices, not some entry-level Radio Shack wires.

So to sum it up, you cannot attract young and affluent customers since most of them are also highly educated, have full access to the Internet and (as such) reject snake oil for what it is: pure BS!
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Yes I see your point and its all true however,

All high end luxury goods are way overpriced based on performance . A $100,000 Patek or Lange does not keep time as well as a Timex regardless if its an in-house movement or Chinese. High end is not usually about performance its about desirability.

What I am saying is we need to market high end audio differently than how we have been doing it or its gonna go away.
 
Mark Jones said:
Yes I see your point and its all true however,

All high end luxury goods are way overpriced based on performance . A $100,000 Patek or Lange does not keep time as well as a Timex regardless if its an in-house movement or Chinese. High end is not usually about performance its about desirability.

What I am saying is we need to market high end audio differently than how we have been doing it or its gonna go away.
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Interesting Mark. What do you suggest?

I personally think that most people just don't have the disposable income for even a very modest system. Music has been cheapened by MP3's and bad sounding radio and people have turned to the tube more now than ever.

I remember my Dad and his cronies in the 70's all pining for Klipschorns and McIntosh (or similar). You just don't see younger guys talking gear or more importantly, music anymore. When was the last time you heard someone outside our hobby say "wow, did you hear that new Eagles album"?

Its a shame, because they are missing a wonderful experience.


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The rich young guns love their stuff. $50,000 watches are selling like crazy. They just don't know there is super cool stuff they can fill there super condos with. Your D'Agostino amps are a perfect example. What young cool guy with a $50,000 watch on his wrist would not love to have your amps if he knew they even existed. And that's the problem, they no nothing of their existence. They sure as hell know about that rose gold Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Offshore for similar money that can't even keep good time.
 
NorthStar said:
People living in condos generally like small stuff; jewelry, Bose radios. ...They don't have the space for big items like ...

I know, my Mum lives in a condo.
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I'm Talking about the rich, their condos are not too small. They are probably not big enough to get most out of their hi-end audio but they don't care, especially if it is promoted as being cool.

I'm not saying we need to sell hi-end audio only to end users that will not use it properly but we need a few of them or all these these brands we love are gonna go out of business as baby boomers go away.
 
NorthStar said:
People living in condos generally like small stuff; jewelry, Bose radios. ...They don't have the space for big items like ...

I know, my Mum lives in a condo.
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The Devialet and Magic Q1 are small.......

Even the D'Agostino stereo amp is not all that big
 
NorthStar said:
Mark, do you have enough rich customers yourself to make a decent living? Is Toronto a good market, or would you be willing to travel overseas where things are really happening?
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No I don't and I am staying here at least until my kids are grown up, I started very late in the kids dept.

But thats my point there are enough rich people here to make a fantastic living, i just need to come up with better ways of reaching them. The whole industry does.

I am happy with my life now, I don't need to sell tons but I do do need this industry to survive. I think everyone one here at AS feels the same.

As a junior member here maybe I should stop now and shut up.
 
I'm enjoying the read Mark.

What I have seen work surprisingly well is monthly evening demonstrations. They start slow, really slow (is anyone coming?) slow. But over 12 months they gain steam and word of mouth spreads like wild fire.

I have to give credit to Tim at Blink Hi End in Boston. He hosts a couple of wine & cheese gatherings for music lovers. Typically held at say 6pm on a Thursday once a month. You go there and he has a demo where he plays different songs on a particular pair of speakers or amp then switches. People discuss what they heard and then he's off switching around something else. It's not about selling.....it's about listening.

He purposely doesn't target audiophiles, he targets music lovers. He works hard to get the word out locally and I attended one of his wine & cheese gatherings and I was amazed at the diversity of people. Young, old, men, women, single, married, professional, blue collar, you name it.

Maybe call it "music & munchies, for the love of music enjoyment."
 
That's very good Mike. ...And all in the love of the music. :cool: ...Good music goes very well with good audience (various people of all ages and colors and from diversified backgrounds and professions).

See Mark; start playing good music that good people can relate to, and add some camembert and brie cheese with french bread and wine. :) ...Slowly but surely you'll expand your entourage for the good of everyone. ...And you'll get more exposure, the most solid type.

_______________

And right on! ...Habs took game one. :) ...In second OT, wow! :cool: ...Now that's high-end!
 
Wow! Definitely not me! I personally don't believe that one has to be rich or an audiophile to enjoy good music, but I am also THE ONLY one here that has that belief, so that makes me the oddball which is a welcome moniker as it is taken from a classic movie (Kelly's Heros).
That's why I rarely share music or mention my gear with anyone(except for tech support purposes) and believe that music and this "hobby" is private really.
 
Eric, you ain't alone; me too I think like you. :) ...I love music with a deep passion, and I am extremely poor; I bet I am the poorest member of all the audio sites that I am a member of. ...So here you go, you have it just like it is.

Oh, there was a time when I had a pretty fair sum of money; approaching the seven figures (just for the cash), but now I am totally at rock bottom, even lower than that, in a very very deep hole.
And it was my own choice at one point to change my life from few fat bank accounts to eclipsing myself behind the darkness and wanting peace which is free. ...I worked real hard all my life, and later on I took the gamble, I won some, and I finally lost it all (stock market), and a whole lot more, not just financial.

But the music saved me, saved my life; some people told me that they would have killed themselves, and I wanted that too, for quite a long time, but during all that "down" time I was always listening to music, and that's what kept me afloat.

My heart and my soul is in the music, and during my better years, audio gear was always the magic tool in reproducing it; as early back as 1966 (Mom's turntable). Then just few years later I bought my own. ...And then it kept growing and growing and growing and I was following my own rhythm, my own balancing act of life towards my ultimate passion; emotional satisfaction through my senses; hearing. ...And also eyeing, and touching too (women, and gardening on a grand scale, and playing my musical instruments, and painting, ...), and tasting (the fine food), and smelling (the nice flowers aroma and the sensuous scent of various women I met).

But listening with my ears to sweet melodies inspires all my other four senses, and satisfies the most my sixth one; my soul.
The music, I got that (in software and in creativity, my own making). The gear to reproduce it, I still got some. ...Inexpensive by AS standards, but pleasant nonetheless. ...My personal experience in certain domains (audio journey included) is a great attribute, I think. ...And my overall knowledge is fairly valid as well I'd say.

Bias? I've seen both sides, and have the greatest respect for them both.
 
just dave said:
Feanor said:
We might add a special category of equipment enthusiast however, many of whom aren't strictly dumpster divers: those would be the vintage equipment lovers. Often it's the aesthetic they love, not the sound so much, e.g. what's not to love about this face ...

2385.jpg
Click to expand...

That's me!:exciting:
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Yet the Marantz was not quite typical of the apex of the '70s hi-fi mayhem. A better example might be the Pioneer SX-780, below.

Viz.:
  • Silver face
  • Full array of tone, balance, and mode controls
  • Rotary knobs
  • Flip switches (instead of buttons)
  • Analog tuner
  • Analog meters (instead of digital)
  • Wood cases
  • Inside, all or mostly discrete components rather than integrated circuits.

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Mark Jones said:
I'm not saying we need to sell hi-end audio only to end users that will not use it properly but we need a few of them or all these these brands we love are gonna go out of business as baby boomers go away.
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I was just thinking about this today. The audio industry seems to be in a nice spot these days. More and more shows are popping up, or the more established ones are becoming recognized by a larger audience. There are lots of smaller companies making some really nice gear at affordable prices.
Why is this? Well like Mark said, my theory is that all the baby boomers that went to concerts during their youth and had music become a part of their everyday lives now have the money and/or desire to buy and build these great systems. Hopefully other generations will hop on board to continue the trend because once the baby boomers start to become extinct there may be a whole lot of little companies following them into the ground.
The bicycle industry did this during the 90's and many of the more successful small companies were snatched up by the big boys while a lot of others simply vanished.



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