Shadowfax
Well-known member
That sounds very Capitalistic
High-End Audio - Obsolete?
- Thread starter NorthStar
- Start date
That sounds very Capitalistic
CPP
Active member
Darn it left out the high end girls
If High End Audio was in fact Obsolete, all of these "AUDIO" forums would be pretty boring with everyone chatting about Bose or AVR's, Beats and iPods instead of AMP's and speakers costing more than cars.
If they build it, someone out there will buy it
iosiP
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Not quite, it rather sounds realistic! I mean, I find it logical to pay top cash for top performance, but just a snobbery to pay same for bling and "exclusivity". And the more informed we are, the better choices we make! Of course this also requires some homework, but doing it would help manufacturers of real High-End suff stay in business while snake-oil purveyors would just collapse.
When audio morons shell $350.000 for a pair of Wavac SH-833 monoblocs, I do not ask myself why High-End is in agony, I know it!
Shadowfax
Well-known member
My response was sarcastic and made towards the difference between high-end and High-End. (Capitalization)
eace:MusicDirector
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I just don't understand any of this and most likely never will.
MusicDirector
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Eric, it relates to post #34, and perhaps also, most likely, in part, or the sum of it, to post #35.
* Miss America is the last bastion of the highest echelon from absolute ultimate. ...In America.
Now I'm even more confused.
Then again, I don't understand high-end audio period and never will.
iosiP
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Why, it's simple: if it comes in a plain tin box and costs $1,000 it's called hi-fi. The same, but packed in 1" airgrade aluminium with a sculpted fascia and sold for $5,000+ is called high-end.
See (in)famous examples from Burmester, Theta Digital and Lexicon (the last being a textbook fraud, as they didn't even bother to take out the innards of the cheap product: they just dumped all of it - case included - into their expensive box)!
While I'm sure the Burmester cases add a lot to the price of their products (the same can be said about Chord, Boulder, Rowland, Ayre etc), what makes you think the products are not genuine High-End?
still-one
Active member
Your bad wasn't identifying the incorrect brand, rather you apparently don't understand the business case for low volume manufacturers with distributers and the need for servicing products when they are not selling direct.
iosiP
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Jim, can you just explain how the business case for low volume manufacturers works for Lexicon, who plainly put an Oppo (case and all) inside their own case and sold it at 300% profit?
AFAIK you could even remove the Oppo and use it independently!
I really don't care about the economics of low volume manufacturing: selling a product at four time the price should guarantee better performance (no, not necessarily four times better but still). If a company is unable to use good (re)engineering to (at least) modify an off-the-shelf product so as to make it better, that company should go the way of the dodo.
Economy is stagnating and companies need to raise prices to stay in business? Well, this is none of my freaking business... And BTW, economy is not booming for High-End buyers either, but some of us just cannot recoup the added costs and reduced demand on the back of our own customers.
And BTW, a foot in the derriere is always a step forward!
AFAIK you could even remove the Oppo and use it independently!
I really don't care about the economics of low volume manufacturing: selling a product at four time the price should guarantee better performance (no, not necessarily four times better but still). If a company is unable to use good (re)engineering to (at least) modify an off-the-shelf product so as to make it better, that company should go the way of the dodo.
Economy is stagnating and companies need to raise prices to stay in business? Well, this is none of my freaking business... And BTW, economy is not booming for High-End buyers either, but some of us just cannot recoup the added costs and reduced demand on the back of our own customers.
Neither, actually! A few hours of listening to the re-cased Lexicon/Oppo mongrel would be enough!Bob said:What would you prefer; ten back lashes or a foot in your derriere?
And BTW, a foot in the derriere is always a step forward!
Mark Jones
Member
High end is huge, maybe not in audio but for fine timepieces, handbags and purses it is crazy big. I think the biggest problem with audio is us boring old school dealers with no clue how to attract the the young wealthy people out there. The manufactures are not much better, stop advertising in the mags and be a sponsor at an ATP 1000 event, That's where all the watches and handbags are.
If we want our beloved brands to survive, the industry needs to make some big changes.
If we want our beloved brands to survive, the industry needs to make some big changes.
iosiP
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Mark, I wouldn't blame the dealers (yes some of them are unable to setup a system, but most started this business out of passion and it shows in their way of doing business).
No, the blame lays on the manufacturers, with some of them using deceptive specs and inflated prices to sell their ware: how would you call a sports car advertised as 350HP but only outputting 80, or a luxury watch touted as having an in-house movement running at 36,000BPH that proves to have a cheap Chinese movement with a lowly 18,000? I think these would be called scams and the National Bureau for Customer Protection (or whatever it's called in each country) would step in fast'n'furious. Now should I name names of High-End Audio products that are as overrated as the car/watch I mentioned, but nobody gives a damn about it? I know I could (and so could you, as a dealer), but this would be useless since such pieces of poor engineering get regular prize in S'phile and their ilk.
Some of my friends are audio dealers and I know enough horror stories about lack of basic QC, poor after-sales service and products that the manufacturers insist upon even if they are not salable (and for good reasons). BTW, have you ever changed the plug on an AC cord? I did, and what I discovered when removing the factory-installed cord made me gush... and I am talking about four digits prices, not some entry-level Radio Shack wires.
So to sum it up, you cannot attract young and affluent customers since most of them are also highly educated, have full access to the Internet and (as such) reject snake oil for what it is: pure BS!
No, the blame lays on the manufacturers, with some of them using deceptive specs and inflated prices to sell their ware: how would you call a sports car advertised as 350HP but only outputting 80, or a luxury watch touted as having an in-house movement running at 36,000BPH that proves to have a cheap Chinese movement with a lowly 18,000? I think these would be called scams and the National Bureau for Customer Protection (or whatever it's called in each country) would step in fast'n'furious. Now should I name names of High-End Audio products that are as overrated as the car/watch I mentioned, but nobody gives a damn about it? I know I could (and so could you, as a dealer), but this would be useless since such pieces of poor engineering get regular prize in S'phile and their ilk.
Some of my friends are audio dealers and I know enough horror stories about lack of basic QC, poor after-sales service and products that the manufacturers insist upon even if they are not salable (and for good reasons). BTW, have you ever changed the plug on an AC cord? I did, and what I discovered when removing the factory-installed cord made me gush... and I am talking about four digits prices, not some entry-level Radio Shack wires.
So to sum it up, you cannot attract young and affluent customers since most of them are also highly educated, have full access to the Internet and (as such) reject snake oil for what it is: pure BS!
Well said....like a particular new speaker manufacturer who just keeps telling us the cost of his drivers and tweeter....like that is supposed to impress us. It's the sound stupid!
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
CPP
Active member
Well said. I'll add a friend of mine owns an actual stereo store in Ga, turntables etc. and has pretty much closed his doors based on three reasons. 1. Box stores (2.) Mobility of the young crowd.( 3.) the change in the tax rate and rules and yards of paper work for the govt for small business . Heck he cut his employees when the "healthcare" mess came out and now it's just him part time until he sells his building. High end isn't really dead it's just more difficult to make ends meet.