Bashing...

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Myles, that's why you don't go to other websites. I'm a SS guy but certainly enjoy tube gear as well. I think the bashing gets started when people start speaking in absolute terms. You yourself said on this thread that tubes were the best. Everyone needs to remember that this is a subjective hobby and need to remember this when speaking. This is why I always say that something sounds the best to me, with my ears and in my room.
 
Design Audio Video said:
Myles, that's why you don't go to other websites. I'm a SS guy but certainly enjoy tube gear as well. I think the bashing gets started when people start speaking in absolute terms. You yourself said on this thread that tubes were the best. Everyone needs to remember that this is a subjective hobby and need to remember this when speaking. This is why I always say that something sounds the best to me, with my ears and in my room.
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+1
 
Hell...I stopped even saying "sounds best to me"; and just started going with "like it most"...because NO ONE can challenge that!

I have no horse in this race either; and I see arguments made from both sides. But I do think Jax is right; it does seem to be tube and Vinyl guys, who are the "zealots".

I guess because you kind of have to be, to hold-up older technology. I don't mean that as a slight; I absolutely love glass (wax, not so much :P). But I guess my point is...if these guys weren't "zealots" about it; would it have "survived"?

Doesn't need to come at the expense, of the "other" side though. Love what ya dig; dig what'cha love :audiophile:
 
Wow, so much going on here it's hard to get started......

So some of us are to aggressive and some of us are too thin skinned.....sounds a lot like life.

This is a great place and just like in life sometimes we need to chill a bit and follow the rules of the road. (Certainly, I do at times.) As far as bashing goes, by including a qualifier like "to me" or "to my ears" an audiophile can never be wrong; ignorant maybe, but not wrong. If we all make an effort to do so as opposed to making definitive claims bashing would be less of an issue.

On the other hand, if someone has a view different than yours maybe just try to assess the basis of this view by asking a few questions rather than getting defensive. Maybe they haven't gained the level of exposure to the same gear you have. If thats the case why bother engaging at all. Life's to short.

That said, a little banter amongst friends is fun some times as long as it's not too personal. My signature implies my view about tubes sounding better to my ears (i.e., second harmonic distortion). I sure hope that hasn't offended anyone.
 
wisnon said:
This guy always beat his own path from way back then too:
Oskar Heil A.M.T.
The
research behind the Oskar A.V.T. ( AMT)
As a
physicist, Dr. Heil concentrated his study on how nature designed and
constructed the human ears. Then his studies concentrated on animals of a small
proportion, which can produce a loud sound, especially compared to their size.
These studies led to Dr. Heil’s formulation of his basic diaphragm design theory
and the subsequent development of the Oskar A.V.T. ( AMT) Air Velocity
Transformer.
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Bought the ESS Towers in 1979 with Heil Air Motion Transformers......loved those speakers.

They finally died from smoke inhalation.

:roflmao:
 
Design Audio Video said:
Myles, that's why you don't go to other websites. I'm a SS guy but certainly enjoy tube gear as well. I think the bashing gets started when people start speaking in absolute terms. You yourself said on this thread that tubes were the best. Everyone needs to remember that this is a subjective hobby and need to remember this when speaking. This is why I always say that something sounds the best to me, with my ears and in my room.
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Hardly. You need to reread my post more carefully because you have it wrong.
 
atmasphere said:
Bold: Depends on what website you are on!


Now if you want the science of it, I don't think that science would back you up on the claim. The audio industry for example uses a model created between 1955 and 1965 for most of the kinds of measurements made on electronics. What has happened in the last 45 years has been major advances in our understanding of how the human ear/brain system works, yet almost none of those advances are represented by improvements in our measurement and testing regime. For example by 1965 we already knew that the ear uses higher orders (especially odd orders) of harmonics to sort out how loud a sound is, but the audio industry has pretty much ignored this fact for the last 45 years, instead encouraging design practice that actually *causes* such distortions rather than mitigating them.

Tubes, FWIW, generally speaking make less of these distortions. So recent science says something different from old science.
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Great post.

Ergo the reason why to some peoples ears (certainly mine) THD is not nearly as relevant as keeping the distortion in even order harmonics on the lower end (i.e., tubes). I would take 3% second harmonic distortion to .001% 3rd, 5th and 7th harmonic distortion all day long (especially if the .001% is achieved through poorly executed negative feedback).

That said, I understand and respect that others just don't see it that way.
 
A lot has happened with both tech bases (analog vs digital) since the 1980s.

There has been 3 vinyl revival periods since then. All driven by technological advances.

People think they forgot how good vinyl sounded with the advent of CD and progressive digital convenience. But you must remember that vinyl never sounded better than TODAY. Vinyl magic may have been captured into the groove going back as far as the early 60s, but it is today's tech that is unleashing that analog potential.
 
As a tube owner there are a lot of different SS amps I would rather own. But the reason I prefer tubes I can change the sonic signature of the amp just by rolling tubes. A classic example when I had Dynaudio speakers I preferred warmer sounding tubes. Now with Raidho I like a more linear sound. I didn't have to buy different amps. Between the input - driver/splitter and output tubes there are an awful lot of combinations. The downside IMO is heat - tube failures and new tube burn in which can take well over 100hrs.

As far as vinyl I had too many bad pressings offset center holes and keeping the lp free of dust. I have heard some fantastic vinyl set ups but I prefer a digital music server. I guess I've become a little lazy for I have an entire music collection at my fingertips and don't even have to get out of my chair to change a lp or cd.
 
octadyndude said:
Why?
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I used to just love heating old tubes up with a propane torch....watching the envelope collapse slowly. yea bashing tubes was fun also...but nothing comes close to me throwing a hammer at a television picture tube.. a blast that the neighbors heard!
'course this was the day when I had tons of told tubes laying around from old radios..Zenith and the like.
I do have a couple dead KT120's that no doubt I could have some fun with.

I think this thread, as well as much of what goes on on most of these "high end audio forums" can best be summed up simply with three words:

boys with toys.

am I "bashing" with such a comment? :)
 
Guys, I've been following this thread closely, and it seems like nothing more than a spirited conversation. That said, what are we learning from the thread ?

Not much.

We all have our own opinions.

We are all very different people.

And like America, we just need to embrace our differences and learn from each other.
 
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Rayooo said:
I used to just love heating old tubes up with a propane torch....watching the envelope collapse slowly. yea bashing tubes was fun also...but nothing comes close to me throwing a hammer at a television picture tube.. a blast that the neighbors heard!
'course this was the day when I had tons of told tubes laying around from old radios..Zenith and the like.
I do have a couple dead KT120's that no doubt I could have some fun with.

I think this thread, as well as much of what goes on on most of these "high end audio forums" can best be summed up simply with three words:

boys with toys.

am I "bashing" with such a comment? :)
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Gosh, imagine all of those toxic carcinogens and heavy metals you snorted during your bashful years!
 
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