Amps for Raidho D3's

[NorthStar]

You all are going to make me cry

Thank you ,Thank you , Thank you ,my friends

Party time! :exciting::cryforjoy::band::singing:erfect::boing::buzz::flowers::coolyeah::coolbroguy::woot::rofl::dancing::bananamouse::bananasplit::superbanana::bananaskip:

 

[Mike]

Thank for the explanation Mike. I find this interesting as well. Maybe this is why they say that even tube amps can work with the speakers? (as long as proper volume levels are watched) I agree with your thinking though, if you're going to pony up and buy these speakers you want to be able to get everything out of them that you can. No reason to go in half-assed!

Indeed. Absolare (Bob) says his Absolare tube amps play really loud (105db from his listening position) with no popping.

I think some tube amps (Absolare), Class A (Pass, Accuphase A200 and Vitus) and fast fast fast SS (Soulution, Burmester, Audionet) is the ticket. Not sure where Rowland and others fit into that mix? Maybe the 725's are better than the big 925's on the Raidho's???? Less is more? Bass control is key. Less bass = better bass? Constellation might be good too since they are overly bassy.

I'm learning!!!

 

[Glareskin]

Bass control is key.

Mike,
I fully agree with you. And to make it perfect you shouldn't influence your amplifier by low impendances that might occur in the bass section. So my question is: can you bi-amp the Raidho's?
If so take a look at this:
Here the Audionet AMP is driving the mid/high section of the Keff Blades and the big MAX is driving the bass section.

If you don't want to go for bi-amping even bi-wiring is helping here.
The key to me is control. ​
Hans
​MAX with huge power section
http://img1.audio.de/image-f300x180-ffffff-C-d4180e1a-68549469.jpg

 

[Mike]

Mike,
I fully agree with you. And to make it perfect you shouldn't influence your amplifier by low impendances that might occur in the bass section. So my question is: can you bi-amp the Raidho's?
If so take a look at this:
Here the Audionet AMP is driving the mid/high section of the Keff Blades and the big MAX is driving the bass section.

If you don't want to go for bi-amping even bi-wiring is helping here.
The key to me is control. ​
Hans
View attachment 3178​MAX with huge power section
http://img1.audio.de/image-f300x180-ffffff-C-d4180e1a-68549469.jpg

You can only biamp the big C4.1's. No others.

 

[MDP]

Mike, I know you're waiting to audition some more amps but those Classe's must be pretty darn good to keep you from buying something now. Which begs the question, what don't they do that you're looking for?

Where's Mark!

Doug, What Mike said about the Dag vs Classe' is true. My CA M600's run through the Dag preamp were not as good as the all Dag setup. The all Dag setup had a more 3D soundstage. But the Classe's still sounded very good.

Where I disagree with Mike is that he thinks the amps are clipping, I think the bass woofers on the D3's are simply being overdriven by the power of the Classe' amps. There is no way those amps are clipping driving the D3's.. The Classe' amps are putting out 1200 wpc @ 4ohms. I think it's just simple physics, a 4 1/2 inch driver can only push so much air before it is overwhelmed by the current.

 

[Rhapsody]

Doug, What Mike said about the Dag vs Classe' is true. My CA M600's run through the Dag preamp were not as good as the all Dag setup. The all Dag setup had a more 3D soundstage. But the Classe's still sounded very good.

Where I disagree with Mike is that he thinks the amps are clipping, I think the bass woofers on the D3's are simply being overdriven by the power of the Classe' amps. There is no way those amps are clipping driving the D3's.. The Classe' amps are putting out 1200 wpc @ 4ohms. I think it's just simple physics, a 4 1/2 inch driver can only push so much air before it is overwhelmed by the current.

Mark (Hi),

I have to agree with what you are saying, but Lars says different. It would be REALLY GREAT to find out the exact and correct answer on this question!!!

 

[Mike]

Mark (Hi),

I have to agree with what you are saying, but Lars says different. It would be REALLY GREAT to find out the exact and correct answer on this question!!!

I agree! I feel a bit in the dark.

 

[MDP]

I agree! I feel a bit in the dark.

Hi Bob, I would also like to know what causes the bass drivers to thump when driven hard. What I do know is that clipping is defined by an amps power being used up until they have around 1% distortion, I seriously doubt that is occurring with the Classe' amps.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/measurements

 

[MDP]

Bob, if you're getting 105db from the Absolare amps without any bass driver thumping, that's really curious. If so, then we know one thing, careful matching of power amps with Raidho speakers is a must.

 

[the professor]

As much as I think that an amp clipping could cause a popping - I believe what I've heard with my D1s and D3s is the little woofers being over extended.

For example in my case --- I regularly play the D3s at a higher volume level (meters on tge amps higher than before) than the D1s played when they would pop. If it was the amp clipping then the D3s would be popping way way more.

I'm not sure the Dag stereo amps have enough power to get the D3s woofers to extend far enough.

Plus some amps have a real hard clipping sound and some amps clip much more politely.

 

[Rhapsody]

Bob, if you're getting 105db from the Absolare amps without any bass driver thumping, that's really curious. If so, then we know one thing, careful matching of power amps with Raidho speakers is a must.

Hi Mark, let's all get on the same page. I had the Merrill amps on yesterday when I tested between 100db and 105db. It went to 105db just on the strongest peaks. What I said to Mike was that when I connect the Absolare amps up, I can play it to about the same volume as I was playing it with the Merrillls. With the Merrills at around 100 db I get no popping OTHER than maybe if there is full orchestra on and then a kettle drum crescendo comes on the might pop, but not so much.

When I listened last night with the Merrill amps I tested out the SPL's with loud music with a lot of bass. When I was playing as loud as I would ever play play it, I was at about 95db, occasionally on the loudest passages close to 100db. The speakers never popped once. In fact they sounded incredible.

I am still breaking them in and to be honest I am not going to be turning on the Absolare amps and seeing how loud they will go. I know that they will got to 95db and maybe 100db on peaks, but I would only confirm that by listening at my normal "highest listening level" and then observe where the spl's are at. As you know SET's are NOT about getting ultimate spl's, they sound way too gorgeous to be doing that. Although I love a great big soundstange and a totally encompassing, pressurized room etc. When I did try the Absolare amps (only once so far) they played as loud as I would ever play them, but I did not check the SPL's. If I had checked the SPL's it would probably be around 95db at max. But the Absolare amps never popped the D3's once in playing them for a few hours with heavy bass and probably around 95db.

I will be hooking up the Absolare amps probably Thurs. or Friday as I have visitors coming in this weekend to hear the Absolare amps on both Sat. and Sunday. When I do connect them up again I will measure the SPL's when playing at my "loud volume", but NOT louder than I would ever listen to.

Ask questions please if I am not being clear.

 

[MDP]

Hi Mark, let's all get on the same page. I had the Merrill amps on yesterday when I tested between 100db and 105db. It went to 105db just on the strongest peaks. What I said to Mike was that when I connect the Absolare amps up, I can play it to about the same volume as I was playing it with the Merrillls. With the Merrills at around 100 db I get no popping OTHER than maybe if there is full orchestra on and then a kettle drum crescendo comes on the might pop, but not so much.

When I listened last night with the Merrill amps I tested out the SPL's with loud music with a lot of bass. When I was playing as loud as I would ever play play it, I was at about 95db, occasionally on the loudest passages close to 100db. The speakers never popped once. In fact they sounded incredible.

I am still breaking them in and to be honest I am not going to be turning on the Absolare amps and seeing how loud they will go. I know that they will got to 95db and maybe 100db on peaks, but I would only confirm that by listening at my normal "highest listening level" and then observe where the spl's are at. As you know SET's are NOT about getting ultimate spl's, they sound way too gorgeous to be doing that. Although I love a great big soundstange and a totally encompassing, pressurized room etc. When I did try the Absolare amps (only once so far) they played as loud as I would ever play them, but I did not check the SPL's. If I had checked the SPL's it would probably be around 95db at max. But the Absolare amps never popped the D3's once in playing them for a few hours with heavy bass and probably around 95db.

I will be hooking up the Absolare amps probably Thurs. or Friday as I have visitors coming in this weekend to hear the Absolare amps on both Sat. and Sunday. When I do connect them up again I will measure the SPL's when playing at my "loud volume", but NOT louder than I would ever listen to.

Ask questions please if I am not being clear.

Thanks Bob, I got it now. And I'll say it again, I think the Raidho's are incredible sounding speakers !!

 

[Paul]

Wow... A lot of good comments. I'm enjoying reading all the posts. However now I get little dizzy @-@. You guys are good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Petro85]

+1 ^ I find these discussions fascinating!!!
Oh btw tubes rule!!!! Lol

 

[Mike]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I really think we are getting carried away with question of power... It is not about quantity, but about quality. The proof that high power is not needed for Raidho speakers can be seen in the fact that Raidho themselves have demonstrated the product - to great effect - at various audio shows with entry level Moon (by Simaudio) integrateds. Did you guys know that Lars (the great viking himself) personally uses a Moon integrated on his D3's?

View attachment 3179

But - and here is the rub - if you want to get the best out of your Raidho's your system foundation must past muster. This means among other things dedicated AC spur, quality distribution block with proper earthing, removing damaging mechanical vibrations and high quality and coherent / consistent cabling systems. These aspects of your system absolutely control the performance possible from it, irrespective of how good your electronics and speakers are. In fact, unless you’ve got them properly sorted, you can’t even hear what your electronics are doing – or what they’re or your Raidho's are capable of. This has been my experience anyway across six years of ownership of Raidhos.

Kiwi - can you explain the popping I'm getting at 93db? Is it because of my amps (Classe CAM600)? Why is this happening?

 

[the professor]

Dang - 93db isn't loud at all. What track does that and if I have it, I'll turn it up until my ears bleed or I get popping. I have a meter to see what db level it is.

Kiwi - can you explain the popping I'm getting at 93db? Is it because of my amps (Classe CAM600)? Why is this happening?

 

[Mike]

Dang - 93db isn't loud at all. What track does that and if I have it, I'll turn it up until my ears bleed or I get popping. I have a meter to see what db level it is.

Send me your email and I email it to you.

 

[Rhapsody]

Send me your email and I email it to you.

I want to throw in that I NEVER get any popping with any amps at under 100db. If I get it at all it's when I'm over 100db and a heavy bass note hits. With the Absolare I don't even get it then. Mike, there is something going on that shouldn't be with your system.

 

[Mike]

I want to throw in that I NEVER get any popping with any amps at under 100db. If I get it at all it's when I'm over 100db and a heavy bass note hits. With the Absolare I don't even get it then. Mike, there is something going on that shouldn't be with your system.

Hmm...real mismatch of amps and speakers I guess.

 

[the professor]

I agree

When Mark brought his amps over, we only heard one pop and it was really loud on a heavy bass rock song.

I want to throw in that I NEVER get any popping with any amps at under 100db. If I get it at all it's when I'm over 100db and a heavy bass note hits. With the Absolare I don't even get it then. Mike, there is something going on that shouldn't be with your system.