Why no turntable?

Mike said:
Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Most of those telling you not to do it, don’t presently own a turntable. Hmmm. And memories are a fickle thing. I don’t know who “Joe” is, but VPI is a real good one. Get a Prime and a nice Ortofon or similar cart and you’re in your budget.

Setup is hard? No. And it’s something you should learn anyway. Reading glasses help. Buy and watch this video and you’ll have a new skill —> https://www.amazon.com/21st-Century-Vinyl-Practical-Turntable/dp/B000HA4WU2

There are dozens of videos online as well like this one:

https://youtu.be/VfJnMtolAWo

But I would definitely get the Fremer one and watch it. That being said, I’m sure your dealer will set it up for you, but frankly, it’s really a skill you want to know yourself. You will need a few basic tools and you’re on your way. VPI’s come with a scale.

Phonostage? SimAudio makes one for about $300. iFi too (iPhono 2). You can go up from there. The Manley Chinook is a killer for the $$.


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Thanks.

When the day comes, I welcome the challenge of setup, as compulsive and detailed as we are I don’t see it being an issue and have backup dealer options.


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Yep, when I got my first Clearaudio turntable and a basic tube phonostage, I did a basic setup of the cartridge by watching every video I could find and reading every article to understand what’s what. It sounded ok. Can’t say it beat digital in any way. Sure it sounded a bit warmer, more colored, euphonic. It was fun for a few months. Then I got tired of the color and euphony.

SME 20.2 with an SME IV and a Dynavector XXII followed to “improve” the vinyl experience. As did a VPI Typhoon record cleaner, Dr.Feickert protractor, a Fozgometer, a whole bunch of cleaning brushes, fluids and other paraphernalia. I had drawers full of them...

It did sound better, at this point I felt it was much closer than my digital rig, very enjoyable but still not quite at the level of digital in terms of resolution and effortless dynamic contrast that I clearly heard from my digital rig and Wilson Sophia speakers were capable of.

Then came the obsessive thoughts I need a better phonostage, better phono cables, better protractor, better cartridge and “music” listening sessions turned into an obsessive analyzing of the sound. The pops and scratches of preowned vinyl drove me nuts, the cleaner and antistatic tools did not help, the $45-50 a pop for new vinyl was a hit or miss since so many are pressed from a digital recording not analog tapes, some were just pure crap..

All in all after easily spending more than $25k total on the vinyl experience and perhaps around $7500 for vinyl, I boxed it all up, sold everything and liberated myself from it all. :)

Kudos to those that have the patience, stay the course and enjoy vinyl. I get it, it’s just not for me anymore. Between Tidal/Roon and my small collection of SACD, I find all the music I have time to listen to without putting on my lab coat and engaging in the required rituals of worshiping vinyl at the altar of the record cleaner.
 
I respect he is an expert in the field. I was however a little put off by a Fremer video when he bragged about finding an old lady selling her departed husbands records for 50 cents or so when he know the records were worth $50 or so. He was so happy to rip the old unknowing lady off. I would hope a respectable man would say something. Anyone want to respond it's the sellers responsibility???? What happened to morals.
 
Randy Myers said:
Another one bits the dust :(...

I could never go back. All the hassles associated with vinyl would interfere with my enjoyment of music. I hear people say the hassles of digital :disbelief:, and I wonder how in the world is digital more of a hassle then caring for and setting up a turntable and keeping said table from ruining my albums.... and storage of those albums and record cleaning machines and isolating that table from sound waves in the room, and.... and... and... and then my head starts spinning...

especially when I know how straight forward and simple digital can be... much less so if you do not depend on streaming and "services" but instead keep your music locally.
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I already have assembled a killer system, and it’s my picture further up showing the iPad on the couch revealing convenience.

Audio to me is a Hobby, and gives me something more to play with.

Some guys have motorcycles, guns, woodworking, etc, and I chose Audio and guitar. I love music ever since my Uncle gave me his best up copy of Axis Bold as Love album sometime in the late 70s he bought when it came out.

Fremer is direct as a lot of people from the East Coast. I was born and lived in Boston proper and all my family is there. Being out in Seattle for over thirty years it was easy to learn everyone has different mannerisms.

Lennon taught us “All you need is love”


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Randy Myers said:
The only problem with the Fremer one is that he is a pompous ass :)... I admit to not watching this dvd/video, however I have seen videos and read many a review. I watched the video where speakers were being delivered to his "listening space" (I can't in good conscience call it a listening room). I have never seen a bigger mess in my life and the way he treats insanely expensive gear is simply overwhelming, frustrating, irritating, and above all else disrespectful.
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you concluded that all from a video? I suppose you were able to look into his heart as well...when I saw him last he had some choice things to say about you, lemme tell you :rolleyes:
 
TheOctopus said:
Yep, when I got my first Clearaudio turntable and a basic tube phonostage, I did a basic setup of the cartridge by watching every video I could find and reading every article to understand what’s what. It sounded ok. Can’t say it beat digital in any way. Sure it sounded a bit warmer, more colored, euphonic. It was fun for a few months. Then I got tired of the color and euphony.

SME 20.2 with an SME IV and a Dynavector XXII followed to “improve” the vinyl experience. As did a VPI Typhoon record cleaner, Dr.Feickert protractor, a Fozgometer, a whole bunch of cleaning brushes, fluids and other paraphernalia. I had drawers full of them...

It did sound better, at this point I felt it was much closer than my digital rig, very enjoyable but still not quite at the level of digital in terms of resolution and effortless dynamic contrast that I clearly heard from my digital rig and Wilson Sophia speakers were capable of.

Then came the obsessive thoughts I need a better phonostage, better phono cables, better protractor, better cartridge and “music” listening sessions turned into an obsessive analyzing of the sound. The pops and scratches of preowned vinyl drove me nuts, the cleaner and antistatic tools did not help, the $45-50 a pop for new vinyl was a hit or miss since so many are pressed from a digital recording not analog tapes, some were just pure crap..

All in all after easily spending more than $25k total on the vinyl experience and perhaps around $7500 for vinyl, I boxed it all up, sold everything and liberated myself from it all. :)

Kudos to those that have the patience, stay the course and enjoy vinyl. I get it, it’s just not for me anymore. Between Tidal/Roon and my small collection of SACD, I find all the music I have time to listen to without putting on my lab coat and engaging in the required rituals of worshiping vinyl at the altar of the record cleaner.
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I think you hit the nail on the head Octopus. I believe your description is pretty accurate of vinyl, AND could be applied to digital too. Have you read all Ultrafast has done with his digital.

I have a basic vinyl setup and it's nothing compared to my digital. I even had it professionally set up. I could make it better, but its so much work. And money. Just like digital, everything matters. Even the cables in the tone arm. Oddly Ed might actually enjoy the challenge. I could see him obsessing it to great sonic benefit.

There is one benefit to vinyl. There are quite a few old album in the Jazz, Blues and Classical that are not on digital. Rock or anything more modern is pretty much all on digital and many times produced very well for the medium. Records also end. Sometimes I find digital drones on. For that reason I have set Roon up to end at the finish of an Album. I don't let it start playing songs I may like.
 
I
Mike said:
He has always been kind to me and you know what? When we launched the Florida Audio Expo, Jason and Michael from Stereophile jumped right in to cover it and all the guys from Part Time Audiophile and Enjoy The Music too. The guys from TAS told us to go pound sand. Michael gave several seminars that people are still talking about today. I don’t forget those things.


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The bottom line is MF is a good man who is always willing to help people. Michael was also a leader in keeping LPs alive by being a spokesperson for analog. The people I see taking pot shots at MF are petty, jealous, and most likely have no analog sources.
 
mep said:
...The bottom line is MF is a good man who is always willing to help people. Michael was also a leader in keeping LPs alive by being a spokesperson for analog.
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This is not inconsistent with his also being a pompous ass :D
 
I like Stereophile also... I have a subscription and a friend is a reviewer for the magazine. Mr. Fremer has always seemed like he has quite an attitude for my liking. I am also sure seeing the mess he keeps all of that fantastic equipment in really rubs me the wrong way. I also do not like many of the pieces has has wrote. Seem liked he had far too much attitude for my liking.

Then again, if I ever met him he may come across completely different :dunno:. Obviously if I have had the same experiences with Mr. Fremer as Mike has then I am fairly certain I would feel differently about him.
 
mep said:
So you agree that MF is a pompous ass? I don’t share that opinion.
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Not at all; in my limited dealings with him he has been an enthusiastic but reasoned (and reasonable) audiophile. I'm merely pointing out that a person can be arrogant and pompous (and therefore likely as ass as well) but still be helpful and friendly; in my profession there are a lot of people like that.
 
UltraFast69 said:
I already have assembled a killer system, and it’s my picture further up showing the iPad on the couch revealing convenience.

Audio to me is a Hobby, and gives me something more to play with.

Some guys have motorcycles, guns, woodworking, etc, and I chose Audio and guitar. I love music ever since my Uncle gave me his best up copy of Axis Bold as Love album sometime in the late 70s he bought when it came out.

Fremer is direct as a lot of people from the East Coast. I was born and lived in Boston proper and all my family is there. Being out in Seattle for over thirty years it was easy to learn everyone has different mannerisms.

Lennon taught us “All you need is love”


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I grew up in upstate New York (Binghamton, and when I was older Albany and Syracuse). When I moved to California it was a little hard getting used to. People didn't enjoy my "East Coast Sarcasm" as much as we did back east.

A guy at Vandenberg that partnered on several projects was from New Jersey. I think half the people on our team were shocked when they heard us talking to each other. Some of the most enjoyable years working that I remember!

So I understand and I get his being direct... but that is a little different then being condescending and disrespectful; that is the feeling I get.
 
Randy Myers said:
I grew up in upstate New York (Binghamton, and when I was older Albany and Syracuse). When I moved to California it was a little hard getting used to. People didn't enjoy my "East Coast Sarcasm" as much as we did back east. A guy at Vandenberg that partnered on several projects was from New Jersey. I think half the people on our team were shocked when they heard us talking to each other. Some of the most enjoyable years working that I remember!

So I understand and I get his being direct... but that is a little different then being condescending and disrespectful; that is the feeling I get.
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That's the "feeling" you get? You are the one being condescending and disrespectful because you think he treats his gear with no respect and you don't like his housekeeping:

Randy Myers said:
The only problem with the Fremer one is that he is a pompous ass ... I admit to not watching this dvd/video, however I have seen videos and read many a review. I watched the video where speakers were being delivered to his "listening space" (I can't in good conscience call it a listening room). I have never seen a bigger mess in my life and the way he treats insanely expensive gear is simply overwhelming, frustrating, irritating, and above all else disrespectful.
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It's a lot easier to keep things clean and orderly when you have a small system in a small room than when you are famous reviewer like MF who constantly has a parade of gear coming into and out of his system. Not to mention his massive LP collection. Maybe you should be in charge of the room police and issue citations to rooms that don't meet your standards.
 
mep said:
That's the "feeling" you get? You are the one being condescending and disrespectful because you think he treats his gear with no respect and you don't like his housekeeping:



It's a lot easier to keep things clean and orderly when you have a small system in a small room than when you are famous reviewer like MF who constantly has a parade of gear coming into and out of his system. Not to mention his massive LP collection. Maybe you should be in charge of the room police and issue citations to rooms that don't meet your standards.
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Yea, whatever... there you go again... creating an issue where one does not exist.... maybe try reading everything I wrote before ripping into me. But then again that is your modus operandi.

I refuse to get pulled in further... You are right Mr. Fremer is a God... I bow down to your superior intellect... I should immediately throw away all my digital gear and worship on the vinyl alter with Michael Fremer blessing our vinyl wonderfulness....
 
Randy Myers said:
Yea, whatever... there you go again... creating an issue where one does not exist.... maybe try reading everything I wrote before ripping into me. But then again that is your modus operandi.

I refuse to get pulled in further... You are right Mr. Fremer is a God... I bow down to your superior intellect... I should immediately throw away all my digital gear and worship on the vinyl alter with Michael Fremer blessing our vinyl wonderfulness....
Click to expand...

You created the issue about Fremer. I just responded to your harsh words about Fremer. And for the record, I never suggested you get a turntable. I could care less about trying to convince anyone who loves digital and hates analog to buy a turntable. Your statement about throwing out your digital gear and worshiping on the alter of vinyl is just more nonsense.
 
So a serious question, can a record be played in zero gravity of space? What if the astronauts decide they want to bring a turntable and some of their favorite albums on a long mission to Mars? :)
 
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