Why no turntable?

How does the U-Turn Special compare to, say, the Pro-ject Debut Carbon or Rega Planar 1?


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Don’t know, for me I came across U Turn learning about it from RMAF, buying it, then reading about it on Analog Planet and now the current Absolute Sound where all 3 you refer to are listed in the buyers guide.

I like that U Turn is US built and Rega is built in the UK.

Project shares the same Ortofon 2M red cartridge as U Turn Orbit Special, and Rega mounts it’s own line.

Pro-Ject does have a Carbon arm, and I’m a carbon nut.

U Turn Orbit Special sits right in the middle between the two in terms of price, with Rega coming in at $595 and Pro-Ject at $399.

Don’t think you can make a bad choice.


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Sean

If you are actively looking for a TT in that price range you might want to look at the Music Hall MMF-3.3 at Underwood HiFi. It looks like it could be a step up from these three and with the current sale of $150 off of both finishes it might be worth considering. It is also made by Project for Music Hall per their specs.

https://musichallaudio.com/product/mmf-3-3-turntable/
 
Thank you both. I inherited some vinyl and would like to be able to enjoy them. I need to check out the Music Hall. I see plenty of ink on the Rega and Debut Carbon, and the recent traffic here on the U-Turn has me intrigued, too.

Don’t know, for me I came across U Turn learning about it from RMAF, buying it, then reading about it on Analog Planet and now the current Absolute Sound where all 3 you refer to are listed in the buyers guide.

I like that U Turn is US built and Rega is built in the UK.

Project shares the same Ortofon 2M red cartridge as U Turn Orbit Special, and Rega mounts it’s own line.

Pro-Ject does have a Carbon arm, and I’m a carbon nut.

U Turn Orbit Special sits right in the middle between the two in terms of price, with Rega coming in at $595 and Pro-Ject at $399.

Don’t think you can make a bad choice.


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Sean

If you are actively looking for a TT in that price range you might want to look at the Music Hall MMF-3.3 at Underwood HiFi. It looks like it could be a step up from these three and with the current sale of $150 off of both finishes it might be worth considering. It is also made by Project for Music Hall per their specs.

https://musichallaudio.com/product/mmf-3-3-turntable/




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All 4 appear to be solid tables for real reasonable prices.

A couple reasons I decided on the U-Turn Orbit Special are the solid hardwood plinth, acrylic platter, the optional cue lever, coming with the dust cover, and for me the built in phono stage. A complete package, nothing to add. Also, compared to some others in this range the U-Turn has more upgrade options. I also appreciate American made and the story behind U-Turn!

I am sure all 4 are good choices. I know both Ed and I are happy with the Special!
 
I wanted to put forth some observations after having a basic turntable in operation for about a week. For the past week I have used vinyl almost exclusively to give it a good run in.

These are my observations; your millage can and probably will be vary:

Convenience to play: Vinyl you have to “unpack” the record from the cover, jacket, inner sleeve, being very careful on handling and then clean both the stylus and record. Digital you pick the album you want from Roon and click play – advantage Digital

Convenience to store: Vinyl you have to careful re-pack in the inner sleeve, jacket, outer sleeve and store the albums upright. Digital you simply keep the files on your server, and presumably organized in some type of file management scheme – advantage Digital

Fun factor: Vinyl you have the artwork, footnotes, photos, etc., that came with the jacket. Physically holding the jacket, etc., is very nice. Digital you can have a ton of meta data, reviews, upcoming concert listings, etc., in Roon. Having the original jacket is very fun and gives me the retro feeling from back in the day – advantage Vinyl

Durability: Vinyl you have to care for and store the records properly. With proper care, and being rather picky such as I am, vinyl should last a very very long time. For digital, computers and hard drives can and do fail. Backups and storage are an absolute must. I retain multiple backups for everything. Therefore, protecting the digital music for the long haul is involved and requires a good sense of organization. This is a tough call, but – advantage Vinyl

Cost of entry: This I would say is a surprise, with vinyl a good very solid entry turntable (such as several mentioned in recent discussions) is much lower than similar digital. Tables such as the U-Turn Orbit Special with phono stage built in are just over $500. From the dozen or more DACs that I have had in my re-entry into this crazy hobby, I can say in my view the cost of worthy entry, DAC, server, etc., is much much higher with digital. The software alone that I use costs more than the turntable. Discussions of moving to high end systems, I assume is about the same, both are F@#$ nuts – advantage Vinyl

Playing various songs/playlists: Vinyl picking out specific songs to play is not an easy feat. Creating a playlist is next to impossible. With digital this is a piece of cake – advantage Digital

Sound: An unfair category because I have an entry level table with quite a bit higher digital setup (our club considers my digital one of the best in our club). However, comparing both using my setup I would say the digital has much more dynamics, clarity, and accuracy, especially in the vocal range. It is not all bad news for vinyl though. Two areas that seem to really shine, acoustic music seems to be very inviting on the vinyl, just a richness in the instrument’s musicality, for me mainly noticeable on acoustic guitar. Also, a big surprise for me in the separation and sound stage. Subtleties, very low-level background are very easy to pick out. A couple of Pink Floyd albums made this something I really appreciated. A wider and deeper sound stage can be heard on my vinyl, but the over all clarity and dynamics I have to say – advantage Digital

Background quietness: With digital the background is completely black; I have zero noise. The pops and clicks, even on very good and even on brand new albums still bother me. My vinylphile friends claim that you get to a point where you do not even notice it. So far, I am nowhere near that point – advantage Digital

Sound stage: I have to re-visit this one because it has surprised me. Vinyl has great separation, subtleties, and depth of field that was not expected. I needed to give recognition to this because it is rather important to me, and to be fair to pick out what I have seen as a great strength- advantage Vinyl

So, there you have it, my initial impressions. It is enjoyable to play around with something new, or old, having fun with vinyl again. A few more step ups on the vinyl are coming. First, I have a Clearaudio record clamp coming early next week. This was highly recommended by a club member. I will also probably purchase a Blue stylus fairly soon. This appears to be a nice improvement over the Red. I may also play around with an external phono stage. A buddy has offered to loan me one of his. We will see. I have been impressed with the U-Turn's pre that came with the table so far. One of the great strengths of the U-Turn in the entry level is that up grading is something that can be done versus several other similarly prices tables.
 
Nice write up Randy. So many have claimed digital sounds better than vinyl for less money. You say vinyl is less than your digital, yet your digital still sounds better. IMO, your basic table with a $3,000 phono pre and a $800 or more cartridge will start to sonically equal your digital. Better tone arm cables and power cables to the phono pre will bring additional enhancements.

IMOm what you are experiencing is similar to the guy with $8,000 in phono comparing it to his $1,100 dac fed by a laptop. That person will tell you the dynamics, clarity, detail and noise floor are lower with vinyl.

I spent a solid hour. Probanly 1.5 hours yesterday getting my Pivot toSpindle set. Then a protractor to set up the cartridge. Not sure I made anything better. On some records, notes or instruments pop different than on digital. Overall my digital has better bass and body. Richer and thicker tonally. I like that. The record is slightly shrill. My diamond seems to be 90*. If I drop it more it will be dragging backwards. I'm not sure what to do. Part of the problem I find with vinyl, is when you change it, you cant go back so easy. I could meas with my cart more, but I cant put it back where it was before. I can try, but its not like changing a filer in HQplayer, assessing and changing it back. On vinyl it's all mechanical. It's as good as you are at touching it. That can be seen as fun. I find it frustrating. The hands on is fun. The lack of overall control is the fruatrating part
 
Nice write up Randy. I personally think that when you factor in the cost of the LPs, digital is far cheaper than analog. One can have access to millions of (digital) albums immediately for the cost of a single LP.
 
Yes, nice write-up, Randy.

My experience is that it takes a *very* expensive vinyl set-up to compete with my digital set-up for $ 6.5K: Simaudio Moon 260 CD transport > MIT SL Matrix Plus AES/EBU cable > Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC.

The phono stage alone can cost more than that. So I don't see a cheaper entry price to great analog.

As for soundstage, I have never heard analog in my system, so I have no direct comparison. Yet my analog loving friends love my large and deep soundstage with its 3D palpability and great separation. I do have a very good and tricked out room.

Durability of digital: I don't have files but CDs. So vinyl has no advantage here. If anything, I don't have to fear slow degradation upon frequent replay.
 
Randy, nice job!

Both have their merits, and to have both allows you options to enjoy the hobby.

And you will make gains as you go up the ladder with cartridges, cables and isolation aside from Phonos, and if you are RCA Sutherland seems to have some decent lines.


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Thank you for the kind remarks. That was basically my point, that currently my digital is more tricked out so I did not expect the vinyl to compete. I was simply pointing out the pros and cons.

I also know that if I go up in vinyl then I will be to the point with having to mess around and fiddle with it. Some find that appealing, I do not.

What I meant by entry level is that a table such as the U-Turn is pretty decent for very inexpensive. I know of nothing close to this level of performance in digital in this level price, considering DAC, source, playback software, etc. I then believe stepping to my level of digital is probably better but going to the high level would be up in the air, because I will never know. I will probably never go much beyond where I am at in vinyl. I am having fun, but my digital will be my main source.

I actually do have some fairly nice cables on the table. Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7's which are worth more than the table :)... I already had them so why would I not use them :)...

I believe a couple more tweaks and I will be good for now, but it is interesting to play around with.

About the sound stage. Everyone I know consider the sound stage, depth, separation, image stability, etc., to be top notch on my digital. I was only commenting on the one thing that really stood out to me about this little vinyl setup!

This is a very solid little table and for my use and purposes it will probably satisfy. I know of nothing in digital that I could make that statement about in this price level. But, the bottom line is, as a primary source the digital will remain king. The vinyl is not going to compete but I would not expect it to. But it is fun and it does show me a glimpse into what vinyl can be. But the quality with convenience is definitely proven to me for my digital. But it also shows some real positives for vinyl as well.

It is for sure a personal preference and what someone enjoys the most. Some people love fiddling and tuning their vinyl. That is certainly ok. I enjoy listening and keeping the albums clean is the most that I want to play around with :D....
 
Once the table is set up, what are you fiddling with? You’re done. Just clean and play the record.

You certainly spend more time “fiddling” with your digital with all the efforts around switches, Ethernet cables, filters, optimizing the digital transport and more.


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This is what I mean about personal preferences.

Cleaning an album, cleaning your stylus, record weight/clamps, short listening times between the next "fiddling", changing speeds, carefully handling the album, storage, etc. is all part of fiddling. Doing fine tuning like Rex described and re-doing if it does not work out exactly right since there is no easy go back. In some ways it is fun, others not so much.

Some find this stuff enjoyable, I don't.

To me digital is pretty much setup and you are done. Play what you want. You could literally listen to the entire new Woodstock release without getting out of your chair if you are so inclined.

It shows me there is no right or wrong. I can respect vinyl fans, probably even more now. I will enjoy both, but digital will remain my primary source. For now my new vinyl is making me feel nostalgic, and I am enjoying it.
 
Brand new quality records aren't cheap today. But yesterday's records we have plenty of those, plus second hand music record stores are in effervescence (unraveling). Analog and digital rigs go hand-in-hand today in an audiophile life; one doesn't compete but completes the other in a unique magic way.
Living with one without the other is like living in an incomplete audio world.

 
This evening I bought a few more albums. One was Pink Floyd The Wall - remastered from original analog tapes by Bernie and crew, pressed on 180g vinyl. I got to say, this is the best sounding that I have ever heard The Wall. Impressed the hell out of me!

Talked with my buddy a bit about cleaning, etc. I decided to order a Record Doctor machine to give good first archival cleanings of each and every record. He thought that this was a very good choice if I was not going into crazy level machines. My wife actually encouraged me to buy a solid cleaner, but I could not bring myself to buying an expensive machine at this point. Especially when considering the level of the table :)... She is so amazing I got to say.
 
This evening I bought a few more albums. One was Pink Floyd The Wall - remastered from original analog tapes by Bernie and crew, pressed on 180g vinyl. I got to say, this is the best sounding that I have ever heard The Wall. Impressed the hell out of me!

Talked with my buddy a bit about cleaning, etc. I decided to order a Record Doctor machine to give good first archival cleanings of each and every record. He thought that this was a very good choice if I was not going into crazy level machines. My wife actually encouraged me to buy a solid cleaner, but I could not bring myself to buying an expensive machine at this point. Especially when considering the level of the table :)... She is so amazing I got to say.

The ladies love vinyl.


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This evening I bought a few more albums. One was Pink Floyd The Wall - remastered from original analog tapes by Bernie and crew, pressed on 180g vinyl. I got to say, this is the best sounding that I have ever heard The Wall. Impressed the hell out of me!

Talked with my buddy a bit about cleaning, etc. I decided to order a Record Doctor machine to give good first archival cleanings of each and every record. He thought that this was a very good choice if I was not going into crazy level machines. My wife actually encouraged me to buy a solid cleaner, but I could not bring myself to buying an expensive machine at this point. Especially when considering the level of the table :)... She is so amazing I got to say.

The Wall is now on my list.

The way I’m seeing it there is a good amount of music out there to source on record, more than you can possibly playback on some type of regular basis - not in it for one time playback.

After this weekend my Wife said she wants to get into music now seeing my new fascination with albums and offered us to go into the music room, of course all my thoughts leaned on the naughty side, but she’s being honest, but I don’t think she’ll understand the RCM just yet unlike Randy’s wife [emoji851]


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Try to find a Japanese pressing of DSOTM. Incredible.

https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/1900715?ev=rb&condition=Mint+(M)

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I changed my VTA a few times yesterday. Finally got it to where I feel it sounds best. So far. Probably needs more adjusting. Also going to demo a Sensitive Sound cartridge.

I keep fiddling Mike because I don't know where best is. When you play at a level we are all at,it's the little adjustmets that find the ahhhh. Or so I think. I'm impressed with what my vinyle has done in the past. I have never gotten it past what my digital can do, yet everyone says it should. So now I'm trying the little tweeks to find that last it. Yesterday it was doing darn good. I did not bother going back and forth between my baseline vinyl and digital files. I was just enjoying.

My server also goes in for a software update in a couple weeks. I need my vinyl working well. Sonething has tontie me over.
 
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