mep
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2013
- Messages
- 5,080
DAT recorders came out in 1987. Prism wasn't even founded until 1987.
Why no turntable?
- Thread starter Mike
- Start date
DAT recorders came out in 1987. Prism wasn't even founded until 1987.
A problem when discussing BIA is how many different ways it has been released. Neil Dorfsman was obviously confused in the quote Mike L. referenced above; referring to the links below suggest he was confusing the original mix/mastering with the much later 5.1 production. Adding "fuel to the fire", Chuck Ainsley describes
" In addition, we also mixed it to half-inch analogue tape at 30 IPS, as well as to 15 IPS, one-inch tape in two-track. And everyone in the room had the same opinion that the 96kHz 24-bit PCM was the closest representation of the console bus, and coming second was the 15 IPS one-inch analogue tape. Thereafter, it was a toss-up of which came in third and fourth — i.e. was it the Sonoma DSD, or the half inch 30 IPS tape? So going forward now, we have basically determined that we prefer 96kHz 24-bit PCM for recording over the Sonoma DSD. I was really surprised at that."
https://www.soundonsound.com/people/classic-tracks-dire-straits-money-nothing
https://web.archive.org/web/2008061...tyreview.com/features/brothers_in_arms_01.asp
https://web.archive.org/web/2008082...tyreview.com/features/brothers_in_arms_02.asp
" In addition, we also mixed it to half-inch analogue tape at 30 IPS, as well as to 15 IPS, one-inch tape in two-track. And everyone in the room had the same opinion that the 96kHz 24-bit PCM was the closest representation of the console bus, and coming second was the 15 IPS one-inch analogue tape. Thereafter, it was a toss-up of which came in third and fourth — i.e. was it the Sonoma DSD, or the half inch 30 IPS tape? So going forward now, we have basically determined that we prefer 96kHz 24-bit PCM for recording over the Sonoma DSD. I was really surprised at that."
https://www.soundonsound.com/people/classic-tracks-dire-straits-money-nothing
https://web.archive.org/web/2008061...tyreview.com/features/brothers_in_arms_01.asp
https://web.archive.org/web/2008082...tyreview.com/features/brothers_in_arms_02.asp
Shadowfax
Well-known member
My mistake was selling or giving away all my albums when I bought my 1st CDP and disks. I get the appeal and the sound differences but never pursued it again.
I barely have the room to store my CDs and really have no place to start storing LPs if I was to start buying them. And, what would I buy? Another copy of all the same music I already have? I am not one to need multiple copies of the same music in different formats.
I do still enjoy listening to a good vinyl setup when I get the chances.
I barely have the room to store my CDs and really have no place to start storing LPs if I was to start buying them. And, what would I buy? Another copy of all the same music I already have? I am not one to need multiple copies of the same music in different formats.
I do still enjoy listening to a good vinyl setup when I get the chances.
Java1911
New member
I guess for me, it was the time period in which I got interested in audio. It was about 1987 and the CD was where I made my initial investment in equipment. I think it also has to do with perhaps I am just more used to the sound of digital along with the convenience.
I still own a turntable and have no intention of giving it up but I would not bother owning one if I have to start anew.
In my experience, a “basic vinyl rig” cannot compete with a similarly priced digital set up. One would have to spend a lot more in an analog rig to achieve what is now possible with digital.
The convenience of digital and the improvements made in the last 5 years make it difficult for me investing in vinyl.
That said, I did hear a system playing R2R and it was amazing. Beautiful analog sound with no ticks or pops. That would be interesting. But... oh the inconvenience...
UltraFast69
New member
That’s where I keep going back and forth.
I’m over the top with what I’ve accomplished in my digital assembly, and will add vinyl only at a modest expense.
Then comes limited play, since I will be starting with a handful of albums, over thousands of choices between streaming, downloaded and disc.
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I have 2 vintage ones right now. An old (stock) Lenco L78 that has only been internally converted to 115v, as that sounds better than the 230v here in Europe. I use a step down transformer on it. The other is a vintage HK linear tracker.
With circa 100 albums now, I am good there...don't really need more than that.
- Thread Author
- #88
It will be interesting to see how it unfolds for you.
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What if you have that album specially ripped to RBCD from the vinyl with a very careful process? Delicious!It would all depend on the pressing I guess. A noisy pressing and it will ruin the presence. But ultimately, unless you listen to vinyl in the same system, you won’t know.
But the vinyl of this makes the SACD sound digital:
My two cents: if it was recorded in analog, listen in analog. If it was recorded in digital, listen in digital.
My point in why having both formats is nice.
I remember (not fondly!) the days when I had a turntable (LP12 Valhalla) on a dedicated stand, 2 reel decks, 2 DAT decks, a cassette deck, CD player, Beta HiFi and VHS HiFi with a Sony PCM-601ES, all on a wide lowboy rack, with all the assorted "software" (LP's, CD's, all kinds of tapes).
- Thread Author
- #91
I've done that with a few albums (Led Zep II - Classic Records), sounded good, but I still preferred the record itself.
- Thread Author
- #93
This is a touchy subject.
The way I see it: if, at the time of recording, the mix was recorded to an analog medium, then I want to hear it in analog. The same goes for digital (for the most part)...
So, if the recording engineer mixes everything down to DSD... I want to hear that album in it's original format.
If it was recorded to tape, I want to hear it on tape, or the next best thing, a vinyl record that was cut by a competent mastering engineer to a lacquer, using an all-analog signal chain and pressed at a good pressing plant like QRP, RTI, etc...
There are companies out there right now that are putting out the best sounding reissues on the market. Analogue Productions, Music Matters, even Blue Note directly with their new Tone Poet series are releasing these recordings on vinyl and they can beat out ANY digital reissue of the same release.
I know the big labels are trying to preserve all of those old master tapes that degrade every time they hit a tape head. But some, NOT ALL, of these labels are using cheap A/D converters to record down to 24/96, 24/192, 32/384 etc, instead of cutting new lacquers from the tape. As we all know, lacquers degrade over time... it's a conundrum.
90% of these new vinyl reissues that are being mass-produced by crappy pressing plants, hitting the shelves of Barnes & Noble, Best Buy, Walmart, Guitar Center and your local record stores, with lacquers cut from a digital recording of an analog source... just don't cut it for me. A simple, blind, A/B test on a good system will reveal that. Obviously, the mastering, pressing plant, all play a big part in that final product.
With all of that said, you can find some incredible DSD recordings of analog masters that, depending on the hardware the studio uses and the hardware in your system, can get you as close to that master tape as possible.
I like, and use, both digital and analog sources in my system. But if I had to choose one.........
The way I see it: if, at the time of recording, the mix was recorded to an analog medium, then I want to hear it in analog. The same goes for digital (for the most part)...
So, if the recording engineer mixes everything down to DSD... I want to hear that album in it's original format.
If it was recorded to tape, I want to hear it on tape, or the next best thing, a vinyl record that was cut by a competent mastering engineer to a lacquer, using an all-analog signal chain and pressed at a good pressing plant like QRP, RTI, etc...
There are companies out there right now that are putting out the best sounding reissues on the market. Analogue Productions, Music Matters, even Blue Note directly with their new Tone Poet series are releasing these recordings on vinyl and they can beat out ANY digital reissue of the same release.
I know the big labels are trying to preserve all of those old master tapes that degrade every time they hit a tape head. But some, NOT ALL, of these labels are using cheap A/D converters to record down to 24/96, 24/192, 32/384 etc, instead of cutting new lacquers from the tape. As we all know, lacquers degrade over time... it's a conundrum.
90% of these new vinyl reissues that are being mass-produced by crappy pressing plants, hitting the shelves of Barnes & Noble, Best Buy, Walmart, Guitar Center and your local record stores, with lacquers cut from a digital recording of an analog source... just don't cut it for me. A simple, blind, A/B test on a good system will reveal that. Obviously, the mastering, pressing plant, all play a big part in that final product.
With all of that said, you can find some incredible DSD recordings of analog masters that, depending on the hardware the studio uses and the hardware in your system, can get you as close to that master tape as possible.
I like, and use, both digital and analog sources in my system. But if I had to choose one.........
crwilli
Active member
I own a simple entry level Marantz TT. It’s been in its box for two years. Lack of LPs or having to buy new LPs is one reason I don’t further invest in a better rig. The cost and fussiness of purchasing an analog system to equal the overall sonic rewards of my digital system is another and much bigger reason.
It's very rewarding once you find that perfect combo, though!
still-one
Active member
There is absolutely nothing I find rewarding having to fiddle with vinyl. Why I keep it in my set-up is one of life's great mysteries.
One of the reasons I say, "thanks, but no thanks".
Again, I have found better ways to spend the money elsewhere in my system. I love to hear a good turntable though -- in friends' systems.