Why no turntable?
- Thread starter Mike
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Mike Lavigne
Member
For my multi-channel recordings, I prefer digital...
well; there are digitally sourced multi-channel, and analog sourced multi-channel.....which are different cases mostly. but I have to say that in my personal experience the best vinyl is preferable to multi-channel so far in my experience.
14 years ago I built a custom room designed specifically to properly accommodate 5.1 SACD discrete multi-channel. it was wide enough to allow for 115 degree rear channels, had conduit for cables and outlets for the rear amps. and shortly after I moved into that room I did equip it with all the proper multi-channel gear including EMM Labs dac 6 and EMM Labs 8 channel analog Switchman preamp. I owned 400+ SACD multi-channel discs. and for 18 months I played these multi-channel recordings in this ideal room.
but......honestly.......I played them, but not nearly as much as I expected to. because; my vinyl, which was very good, out 'multi-channeled' multi-channel in this room. and it was not close. maybe some of it was just analog recordings? maybe some of it was that my Rockport Sirius III turntable was so good? I don't really know. but whatever those multi-channel SACD's might do, the vinyl did it better. everything.
so I sold off all the multi-channel stuff, and bought a couple of RTR 'analog' tape decks, which did 2 channel even better than the Rockport.
fast forward 12 years to today, and I'm still all 2 channel....except....in my separate home theater in my house (my 2 channel is in my barn). in this Home Theater I have a 10 foot wide 2:35-1 screen with a 4k projector, but for sound I have 7.1.4 (currently with an Anthem AVM-60 processor). which is 7 surround channels and 4 ceiling 'Atmos' channels + 1 subwoofer channel (with 2 subs). and I'm thinking of getting a Trinnov Altitude 16 and doing 9.1.6.
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/speaker-setup-guides/9.1.6-overhead-speaker-setup-guide.html
I think that this newer 'object' approach to surround might actually give my 2 channel a run for it's money if I assign sufficient assets to optimizing it. right now it's not anywhere close, but my mind is open. yet I won't be surprised if it still cannot quite get the reality to what 'tip-top' analog 2 channel can provide.
2 analog channels done absolutely right can rock my world.
remember; all the channels in the world still can't deliver any more than the artist or recording engineer can provide. and my favorite music happens to be mostly already recorded as god intended it to be.......2 channel analog.
just my 2 cents, YMMV, and all that stuff.
Randy Myers
Well-known member
I have little to no interest in adding a vinyl setup to my system. Back in the day I had a fairly top notch record listening setup including the first VPI machine; their fantastic record cleaner. Dam that was LOUD 
. I loved the Grace Ruby cartridge, etc. Tons of D2D and UHQR albums.
But it was all sold when I dropped out of audio. Raising son, career, etc.
Now I still remember the hassle, the 20 minute sides, the pop and clicks, the cleaning, the fine tuning, etc., even under the best circumstances and love listening to my digital setup. Under best circumstances, in the league I play in, I think my digital rivals vinyl without the hassles. I guess for some digital is a hassle, for me not so much.
A buddy in our audio club has maybe the best system I have heard. MBL amps, pre and speakers! ARC ref 10 phono stage. dCS digital (mainly for SACDs since he does not do server). At least a quarter million dollar setup. And it sounds amazing, but the first thing I hear is pops and clicks.... and no one is more fanatical about caring for his album collection. Three machines, climate controlled room, etc.
Of course not having any albums is certainly a consideration also....
. I loved the Grace Ruby cartridge, etc. Tons of D2D and UHQR albums.But it was all sold when I dropped out of audio. Raising son, career, etc.
Now I still remember the hassle, the 20 minute sides, the pop and clicks, the cleaning, the fine tuning, etc., even under the best circumstances and love listening to my digital setup. Under best circumstances, in the league I play in, I think my digital rivals vinyl without the hassles. I guess for some digital is a hassle, for me not so much.
A buddy in our audio club has maybe the best system I have heard. MBL amps, pre and speakers! ARC ref 10 phono stage. dCS digital (mainly for SACDs since he does not do server). At least a quarter million dollar setup. And it sounds amazing, but the first thing I hear is pops and clicks.... and no one is more fanatical about caring for his album collection. Three machines, climate controlled room, etc.
Of course not having any albums is certainly a consideration also
....
mikeM... i would be interested to learn what gear is in your analog source: cart, arm, tt, phono stage, etc... given your knowledge and satisfaction with vinyl, might be a system to emulate !!
I started in vinyl with a really solid rig (SOTA Star, Benz Glider), and back when I still didn't have too solid of a digital media collection (well before streaming). The vinyl collection quickly surpassed my CDs, and I've been upgrading gear and adding great vinyl ever since. Starting from scratch in vinyl now - with inflated analog gear & vinyl prices, good sounding budget DACs abound, and modern streaming alternatives - would more likely not lead to a good time. Though turntables, cartridges, and phono stages are (for the most part) better than ever, it takes serious cash and some setup knowledge to tap those benefits - contrast this to the ever improving digital audio quality at all price points. However, I'm super happy with how my vinyl collection & rig has grown, and it'll remain my primary source till I die. For me, the concept of settling in the sweet spot and losing myself into music is inexorably tied to cueing up a record - digital cannot do the same.
Also at this point there's no way I'm investing the same level of funds (or even close to it) into a high-end digital/streaming setup; a Yggy 2 and hard drive full of FLACs is good enough for me there.
I just turned 40, and I'm not one who grew up with vinyl. It was lucky that I started out some 12 years ago, rather than now. An older audiophile friend turned me on to 2ch and vinyl back when I was into the early head-fi days. I think he does a lot of streaming these days, haha!
Also at this point there's no way I'm investing the same level of funds (or even close to it) into a high-end digital/streaming setup; a Yggy 2 and hard drive full of FLACs is good enough for me there.
I just turned 40, and I'm not one who grew up with vinyl. It was lucky that I started out some 12 years ago, rather than now. An older audiophile friend turned me on to 2ch and vinyl back when I was into the early head-fi days. I think he does a lot of streaming these days, haha!
puroagave
Active member
LP playback can't compete with digital on noise floor (most cases) even a cheap CDP will be infinitely quieter than even the best LP playback. A reoccurring theme from naysayers on this thread are audible ticks and pops. again, If that's an annoyance then any turntable/vinyl set up is a non-starter. moving coil carts of the low output variety are usually included in a top rung LP rig which req. a high-gain phono stage. even the quietest 'stages I have direct experience with (CH Precision and Boulder) have residual hiss and other artifacts that add another layer of low level grunge that will be more or less audible, depending on the system and listener's sensitivity to it-- another annoyance.
All that said, I can suspend my disbelief with digital well enough but its LPs/tape that give me goose bumps. in spite of itself, analog playback in its present iteration under the best circumstance will show a clean pair of heels to even the $100k MBS stack, its wasn't just me but everyone else present going back and forth with the big Kronos heard the same. In my present system, my analog sources go through the digital meat-grinder as it were, even then its virtues remain intact for the most part, even in direct comparison to playing back digital files the difference is not subtle.
All that said, I can suspend my disbelief with digital well enough but its LPs/tape that give me goose bumps. in spite of itself, analog playback in its present iteration under the best circumstance will show a clean pair of heels to even the $100k MBS stack, its wasn't just me but everyone else present going back and forth with the big Kronos heard the same. In my present system, my analog sources go through the digital meat-grinder as it were, even then its virtues remain intact for the most part, even in direct comparison to playing back digital files the difference is not subtle.
- Thread Author
- #107
I think it’s wonderful to have at least two world class sources. Reel to reel is also incredible, but it makes vinyl look easy. I really want to emphasize that my OP wasn’t about whether one is better than another, but rather the fun of having both. I understand people wanting to focus on just one, but this is a hobby and variety is the spice of life. Even a modest vinyl rig added to a great digital setup or a modest digital setup added to a world class vinyl rig can be a lot of fun. I can’t tell you how many Lumin’s I’ve sold to guys with killer vinyl rigs. They appreciate having both.
I do find it interesting that folks obsessing over isolation, power and cable lifters feel the source of their source is “good enough.” You can’t fix things downstream if the source isn’t up to snuff. A bad AD conversion can ruin a great recording. A bad pressing can too.
So stream the latest Paul McCartney album on Qobuz or Tidal, but sometimes sit back and put on Rubber Soul on vinyl and enjoy.
Variety is the spice of life.
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With this crowd, the reason for not getting into vinyl can't be "the cost", rather its the hassle-factor. More money is spent on speaker cables & power cables (by users posting in this thread that have pooh-poohed vinyl) for a given and existing set up then would need to be spent on a great turntable, cart and phono stage in order to realize great sound.
In my opinion it really is about the inconvenience with all the facets of vinyl play back that keeps people away. Convenience rules. Not just in audio, but literally everything in society today must be convenient. Vinyl playback is not convienent, so it loses.
In my opinion it really is about the inconvenience with all the facets of vinyl play back that keeps people away. Convenience rules. Not just in audio, but literally everything in society today must be convenient. Vinyl playback is not convienent, so it loses.
Cost *is* in fact a major reason (next to others) for me staying away from vinyl, as I pointed out in this thread. If I would have spent money on a good enough turntable -- or a good enough server for 'hi res' *) digital for that matter -- I would never have had from any source the stellar sound that I have now, after having put all the money into optimizing CD playback (with the latest acquisition, an Octave HP 700 preamp, being an absolutely crucial one).
That one is willing to spend a lot of money on a high end system does not mean they have infinite resources. Money does not grow on trees.
__________________________
*) dumb name, as if CD was not high resolution...
Which 'minority', Mike?
Al, I am in the same minority. I am referring to those of us with limited funds.
Aah, I guess with that we actually are in the majority. It's just that some choose to spend their limited funds on a single source, others on several sources. There are many paths to happiness, I chose mine, others chose theirs. I guess there is no right or wrong here.
Or ones who takes those funds and invest it in one great source component.
KeithR
Active member
I went through a similar decision process (and being disabled, analog is a PITA than for others)- sell my Brinkmann rig for a cheap Technics and maybe upgrade my MSB Premier to a Reference dac. In the end, I kept the analog rig as for AAA recordings its still hard to beat and collecting vinyl is fun. The Bardo is industrial art, as well.
Finally, some nights I love putting on an entire side of vinyl for a different listening experience. We tend to be more jumpy on digital with Roon/Tidal. I basically refuse to buy 45rpm stuff though.
But if I had the current MSB crop six years ago, may not have made the analog decision in the first place.
Finally, some nights I love putting on an entire side of vinyl for a different listening experience. We tend to be more jumpy on digital with Roon/Tidal. I basically refuse to buy 45rpm stuff though.
But if I had the current MSB crop six years ago, may not have made the analog decision in the first place.
AJ Soundfield
Well-known member
Before I had a turntable my food would be cold in spots, hot in others. With a turntable, everything is evenly warm now.
In all seriousness, I'm simply too lazy to deal with all the vinyl futzing. When music hour(s) arrive at 8p, I want to listen to as much music as possible, as easily as possible, with immersive SQ that trounces any luddite stereophonic vinyl setup extant. YMMV.
In all seriousness, I'm simply too lazy to deal with all the vinyl futzing. When music hour(s) arrive at 8p, I want to listen to as much music as possible, as easily as possible, with immersive SQ that trounces any luddite stereophonic vinyl setup extant. YMMV.
- Thread Author
- #117
AJ Soundfield
Well-known member
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.If he want's to be hip cool
Ha, if hip cool includes destroying your records upon playing, I'm all in...