Why no turntable?

Mike said:
I think it’s wonderful to have at least two world class sources. Reel to reel is also incredible, but it makes vinyl look easy. I really want to emphasize that my OP wasn’t about whether one is better than another, but rather the fun of having both. I understand people wanting to focus on just one, but this is a hobby and variety is the spice of life. Even a modest vinyl rig added to a great digital setup or a modest digital setup added to a world class vinyl rig can be a lot of fun. I can’t tell you how many Lumin’s I’ve sold to guys with killer vinyl rigs. They appreciate having both.

I do find it interesting that folks obsessing over isolation, power and cable lifters feel the source of their source is “good enough.” You can’t fix things downstream if the source isn’t up to snuff. A bad AD conversion can ruin a great recording. A bad pressing can too.

So stream the latest Paul McCartney album on Qobuz or Tidal, but sometimes sit back and put on Rubber Soul on vinyl and enjoy.

Variety is the spice of life.


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My address was towards comments suggesting vinyl playback, in and of itself was inferior to digital because of artifacts such a self noise. HP said it best "the absence of noise is not the presence of music" (credit Myles Astor). the meaning will be lost on those that haven't enjoyed vinyl playback at a reasonably high level and in their own home.

What I've observed over time, here and on other message boards, etc is a distinct correlation between those that enjoyed vinyl playback at a high level prior to the digital onslaught (mid '80s) and those that came into the high-end fold years later and quickly gravitated towards digital. The nexus between the size of ones physical media collection (LP) and their adherence to the vinyl format is undeniable. It's not to say digiphiles didn't have LPs back in the day, their commitment to the format was far less. It's rare indeed to find someone new to vinyl playback (less than 10 yrs) that uses it as their primary source or has a considerable investment in it.
 
puroagave said:
My address was towards comments suggesting vinyl playback, in and of itself was inferior to digital because of artifacts such a self noise. HP said it best "the absence of noise is not the presence of music" (credit Myles Astor). the meaning will be lost on those that haven't enjoyed vinyl playback at a reasonably high level and in their own home.

What I've observed over time, here and on other message boards, etc is a distinct correlation between those that enjoyed vinyl playback at a high level prior to the digital onslaught (mid '80s) and those that came into the high-end fold years later and quickly gravitated towards digital. It's not to say they didn't have LPs back in the day, their commitment to the format was minimal. The nexus between the size of ones physical media collection (LP) and their adherence to the vinyl format is undeniable. It's rare indeed to find someone new to vinyl playback (less than 10 yrs) that uses it as their primary source.
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Good point. My FIRST EVER audio product (in the 70’s) was a turntable. I had two paper routes and saved up all my money to buy my first table. I’ve always had a table since.
 
I’m getting torn, as the iPads lazy and analog is effort. Right now it’s late, wife’s in bed, friends have left for the evening and music is sounding real nice.

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puroagave said:
...What I've observed over time, here and on other message boards, etc is a distinct correlation between those that enjoyed vinyl playback at a high level prior to the digital onslaught (mid '80s) and those that came into the high-end fold years later and quickly gravitated towards digital. The nexus between the size of ones physical media collection (LP) and their adherence to the vinyl format is undeniable. It's not to say digiphiles didn't have LPs back in the day, their commitment to the format was far less. It's rare indeed to find someone new to vinyl playback (less than 10 yrs) that uses it as their primary source or has a considerable investment in it.
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I'm sure we all exhibit some bias in our sampling of this data, but I have not found this to be true at all. Many of the most vocal analog proponents came late to the (audiophile) game, and many many who grew up with analog are now posting here and elsewhere that they are digital only.
 
puroagave said:
HP said it best "the absence of noise is not the presence of music" (credit Myles Astor).
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Touché !

I now have about a hundred LPs (only).
In addition to the fact that sometimes I go to youtube to listen to the songs that I miss, I am thinking of buying a turntable because it is the most beautiful equipment of an audio system! :D



See this Interesting reading



https://www.stereophile.com/content/book-review-new-analog
 
Spock said:
Touché !

I now have about a hundred LPs (only).
In addition to the fact that sometimes I go to youtube to listen to the songs that I miss, I am thinking of buying a turntable because it is the most beautiful equipment of an audio system! :D



See this Interesting reading



https://www.stereophile.com/content/book-review-new-analog
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Interesting article. I agree that Roon has given a calm and coordination to the vast amounts of music available digitally. Roon also has the unique feature to lead you from one artist you like to many others with a similar style. Quite frankly, Roon is a game changer in the world of digital.

The exposure to new music and new artists seems almost endless with the combination of Roon and streaming services.

That being said, if I find an album I love, I’m going to seek out the best version possible regardless of format and usually that means buying it. I guess I’m in the minority as I still like to own the albums I like. I have a belief that the artist should be compensated for a great album, beyond the piddly amounts they earn from streaming services.

I will tell you, I found my first pressing of Frank Sinatra’s Strangers In The Night LP. It’s pristine as it was my Dad’s purchased in 1965. I played it yesterday and than compared it to the version on Qobuz. Just no comparison. The original pressing was dynamic and alive and three dimensional. The soundstage went on forever. The Qobuz version was good, surprisingly so, but sounded compressed and a little flat by comparison. But to be fair, like I said, I’ve found many modern recordings to be real stinkers on vinyl. These are typically record companies who produce an album on vinyl “just because it’s the hip and cool thing to do”, rather than take the necessary care to produce a great record.
 
I agree Mike other than I seek out the best digital version I can buy, which is never streaming. My way to compensate the artist is purchase my music and if at all possible direct from the artist (usually not possible, however I always purchase Lyn Stanley's latest straight from her as an example).

There have been several times that I purchase the SACD, rip it to my server and then a higher rez digital download becomes available and I purchase that as well. Vanessa Fernandez's latest is the most recent example.
 
I guess with a thread title of "Why no turntable" it was bound to invite an anti-analog bitch fest. Since the thread is already up to 13 pages, I guess it's therapy for those who choose to crap on LPs. Personally, I'm no longer interested in trying to convince someone they should give records a try. It's better they keep searching for the best hi-rez version of Lyn Stanley and Vanessa Fernandez's latest sonic blockbusters.
 
puroagave said:
LP playback can't compete with digital on noise floor (most cases) even a cheap CDP will be infinitely quieter than even the best LP playback. A reoccurring theme from naysayers on this thread are audible ticks and pops. again, If that's an annoyance then any turntable/vinyl set up is a non-starter. moving coil carts of the low output variety are usually included in a top rung LP rig which req. a high-gain phono stage. even the quietest 'stages I have direct experience with (CH Precision and Boulder) have residual hiss and other artifacts that add another layer of low level grunge that will be more or less audible, depending on the system and listener's sensitivity to it-- another annoyance.

All that said, I can suspend my disbelief with digital well enough but its LPs/tape that give me goose bumps. in spite of itself, analog playback in its present iteration under the best circumstance will show a clean pair of heels to even the $100k MBS stack, its wasn't just me but everyone else present going back and forth with the big Kronos heard the same. In my present system, my analog sources go through the digital meat-grinder as it were, even then its virtues remain intact for the most part, even in direct comparison to playing back digital files the difference is not subtle.
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This is the crux of the argument against vinyl and for many LP haters, it is the #1 deal breaker. And you are right that digital will always smoke LPs in the S/N ratio. But, digital has its own noises and digital flatulence that appears at times. Digital also isn't as stable as vinyl. If you are into streaming and you lose your internet connection, you are screwed until you get your connection back. Analog people can spool up a tape or put an LP on and have sonic bliss. I haven't been to an audio show yet where several digital only rooms were silent because they couldn't get their digital rigs to work. Digital isn't without its own headaches despite what some people say.
 
mep said:
Personally, I'm no longer interested in trying to convince someone they should give records a try.
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Right, because most 50-80yr old male audiophiles have never given records a try in their lifetimes. That must be it.

Btw, fyi, I have literally thousands of CDs and files that can be played, instantaneously, without ritualism, if there were ever internet connectivity issues when playing music. I suspect many (most?) "Digital" guys do too.
 
AJ Soundfield said:
Right, because most 50-80yr old male audiophiles have never given records a try in their lifetimes. That must be it.

Btw, fyi, I have literally thousands of CDs and files that can be played, instantaneously, without ritualism, if there were ever internet connectivity issues when playing music. I suspect many (most?) "Digital" guys do too.
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I'm sure that most 30-50 year old male audiophiles have never played a CD in their lifetimes just like your sure that most 50-80 year old audiophiles have never given records a try in their lifetimes even though that's all they had to listen to when they grew up.
 
mep said:
I'm no longer interested in trying to convince someone they should give records a try.

most 50-80 year old audiophiles have never given records a try in their lifetimes even though that's all they had to listen to when they grew up.
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:congrats:
 
AJ Soundfield said:
:congrats:
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I didn't mention any age group when I said I don't try to convince someone they should give records a try. The age group you brought up wasn't who I was talking about obviously since they already have their own lifetime experiences. I'm glad you are having fun though AJ. You also strung together two different sentences of mine from different posts that takes what I said out of context so I'm glad people can read what I actually said.
 
Well Mark,

In the context of this thread on AS, I'm pretty sure everyone participating has given records "a try"...and that's precisely why they either do, or do not, choose to own a turntable. Not for a lack of trying. ;)

Oh and btw, vinyl/TT the most reliable of mediums?? Please.
 
mep said:
Digital also isn't as stable as vinyl. If you are into streaming and you lose your internet connection, you are screwed until you get your connection back. Analog people can spool up a tape or put an LP on and have sonic bliss. I haven't been to an audio show yet where several digital only rooms were silent because they couldn't get their digital rigs to work. Digital isn't without its own headaches despite what some people say.
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Digital is just as stable if you play physical CDs like I do. I always get my digital to work, never a problem with my current CD transport in the 5 years since I have it. Sometimes it pays off to be an "AARP dinosaur" (well, I'm still 56).
 
mep said:
I guess with a thread title of "Why no turntable" it was bound to invite an anti-analog bitch fest. Since the thread is already up to 13 pages, I guess it's therapy for those who choose to crap on LPs. Personally, I'm no longer interested in trying to convince someone they should give records a try. It's better they keep searching for the best hi-rez version of Lyn Stanley and Vanessa Fernandez's latest sonic blockbusters.
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I'm not seeing much "anti-analog bitching" here, more just explaining why many have decided to forgo analog to concentrate on single source playback. FWIW, only one of my audiophile friends from the 1970's is still committed to LP's, and for him it's business (Profundo Audio) as much as a hobby. But I do have quite a few friends and relatives in their 30's and 40's with turntables and LP's, only a few of whom would consider themselves audiophiles, and all of whom grew up in the "digital era."
 
rbbert said:
I'm not seeing much "anti-analog bitching" here, more just explaining why many have decided to forgo analog to concentrate on single source playback. FWIW, only one of my audiophile friends from the 1970's is still committed to LP's, and for him it's business (Profundo Audio) as much as a hobby. But I do have quite a few friends and relatives in their 30's and 40's with turntables and LP's, only a few of whom would consider themselves audiophiles, and all of whom grew up in the "digital era."
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Rob-It’s a mixture of opinions, but for those that gave up analog, most opinions aren't positive.
 
Al M. said:
Digital is just as stable if you play physical CDs like I do. I always get my digital to work, never a problem with my current CD transport in the 5 years since I have it. Sometimes it pays off to be an "AARP dinosaur" (well, I'm still 56).
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Yes, CDs are a physical medium. I was referring to digital files being played over a server/DAC combo.
 
AJ Soundfield said:
Well Mark,

In the context of this thread on AS, I'm pretty sure everyone participating has given records "a try"...and that's precisely why they either do, or do not, choose to own a turntable. Not for a lack of trying. ;)

Oh and btw, vinyl/TT the most reliable of mediums?? Please.
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AJ-I agree that the majority of people participating on this thread have experience with owning and playing LPs.
 
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