Top brands that have no respect

[mep]

I wouldn’t say the following brands have no respect but rather are underrated relative to the attention they receive here in the U.S.:

Tidal- It perplexes me that some in the market for Wilson or Magico don’t consider these outstanding speakers despite nothing but rave consumer and professional reviews. Their amps and preamps are also top-notch.

Simaudio- All they do is make excellent products.

Joseph- As has been mentioned several times already, simply great speakers.

(Special Mention)
Cary- I wouldn’t necessarily call them underrated, but it does seem that they get left out of the discussion more often than they should be.

Parasound- Some audiophiles just don’t know how good their Halo products are.

Cary is one of those companies who no longer have the creator of the brand who designed Cary products at the helm anymore. Dennis Had is gone and some of the mojo left with him IMO. I get emails almost every day from Cary offering discounts on their products. They are like furniture and jewelry stores-everything is perpetually on sale.

 

[Alpinist]

I would like to add Aesthetix to this list. The Atlas monoblocks are one of my favorite amplifiers for the money.

Ken

 

[UltraFast69]

IMO this topic should not exist, underrated or being not familiar with various brands is the direct result of poor marketing.

If I owned an component, speaker, cable or accessory company I would make sure everyone was aware of the business.

This is probably the best time this can be done with social media aside from demonstrations as well as other methods.

The makers that choice to remain small have the positive and negative attributes. The biggest downside is when the company is driven by one person and all the stigma about getting hit in the head with a golf ball comes to mind.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[asindc]

Well said. I mention the JC-1’s to people and get the big poo-poo.

WRT Tidal, it’s just that they need dealers. Poor Doug can’t do it all. He is NOT the distributor. He is one dealer. Pretty much the only one. Great guy, but they need 12-15 dealers across the country, minimum. The problem is that as a dealer for us to invest ~$50-100k of our money, we have to have a reasonable level of confidence of ROI. I’ve had my fill of brands like Vandy, Verity, Vivid that are all great, but just didn’t move.

NOT related to any of the brands mentioned, keep in mind that they may not have great representation for other reasons. Dealers have to not only like your product, but like your team and get support. I’ve had a few brands where this was not the case and I no longer represent them and others I wouldn’t represent for those reasons mentioned. Dealers talk you know. [emoji6]. It’s a marriage.

We also have a mixture of manufacturer direct to dealer, distributors to dealers and the new flavor of the month “rep firms” to dealers. Rep firms are happy to sell SMART Thermostats, rock speakers, lighting products and oh yeah, some high end audio stuff. There are a couple of great distributors, but my favorite model is manufacturer direct to dealer. Much happier, much more efficient model and your mutual interests are aligned.

It’s complicated. This is a people business at the end of the day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good point about Tidal.

Regarding the bolded part, I also see this in my other hobby, cycling. There are a couple of brands that have a poor reputation among dealers despite the fact that they make excellent products. In one case, a dealer told me she has to hold her nose and carry a certain brand simply because they sell so well.

 

[ben]

Well said. I mention the JC-1’s to people and get the big poo-poo.

WRT Tidal, it’s just that they need dealers. Poor Doug can’t do it all. He is NOT the distributor. He is one dealer. Pretty much the only one. Great guy, but they need 12-15 dealers across the country, minimum. The problem is that as a dealer for us to invest ~$50-100k of our money, we have to have a reasonable level of confidence of ROI. I’ve had my fill of brands like Vandy, Verity, Vivid that are all great, but just didn’t move.

NOT related to any of the brands mentioned, keep in mind that they may not have great representation for other reasons. Dealers have to not only like your product, but like your team and get support. I’ve had a few brands where this was not the case and I no longer represent them and others I wouldn’t represent for those reasons mentioned. Dealers talk you know. [emoji6]. It’s a marriage.

We also have a mixture of manufacturer direct to dealer, distributors to dealers and the new flavor of the month “rep firms” to dealers. Rep firms are happy to sell SMART Thermostats, rock speakers, lighting products and oh yeah, some high end audio stuff. There are a couple of great distributors, but my favorite model is manufacturer direct to dealer. Much happier, much more efficient model and your mutual interests are aligned.

It’s complicated. This is a people business at the end of the day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well said Mike. Agree with your Tidal point. USA is a big country. Having one dealer is not enough. There is so much Doug can do to represent Tidal in the entire US market. Same goes for FM acoustics, Zellaton, Goldmund, Kaiser Acoustics. All are expensive ultra high end brands but one dealer for entire country. Kharma has only 3 dealers in USA. Hats off to CH Precision to ditch audio arts and expand their dealer network. It boggles my mind to see how all these companies not taking US market seriously. They spend years to create expensive ultra high end products but don't take marketing seriously.

 

[Mike]

Well said Mike. Agree with your Tidal point. USA is a big country. Having one dealer is not enough. There is so much Doug can do to represent Tidal in the entire US market. Same goes for FM acoustics, Zellaton, Goldmund, Kaiser Acoustics. All are expensive ultra high end brands but one dealer for entire country. Kharma has only 3 dealers in USA. Hats off to CH Precision to ditch audio arts and expand their dealer network. It boggles my mind to see how all these companies not taking US market seriously. They spend years to create expensive ultra high end products but don't take marketing seriously.

Well said. Couldn’t have said it better myself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[still-one]

Is it possible that some of the brands mentioned throughout this thread are underappreciated because there are just too many manufacturers playing in the high-end sandbox? Maybe I am way off base but with the dearth of viable brick and mortar stores how are so many competitors going to find locations to support their products. There is no way every product can find a home within a reasonable distance of most major metropolitan areas when you are lucky to have 3 B&M locations.

Maybe the crazy prices we accept in this hobby would become more reasonable if there was any sort of manufacturing scale.

 

[Mike]

Is it possible that some of the brands mentioned throughout this thread are underappreciated because there are just too many manufacturers playing in the high-end sandbox? Maybe I am way off base but with the dearth of viable brick and mortar stores how are so many competitors going to find locations to support their products. There is no way every product can find a home within a reasonable distance of most major metropolitan areas when you are lucky to have 3 B&M locations.

Maybe the crazy prices we accept in this hobby would become more reasonable if there was any sort of manufacturing scale.

Jim, that’s definitely a large part of it. Just one trip to Munich and your head is spinning with all the brands. I frankly think dealers with nice B&M stores can really be selective and carefully chose the right brands and mixture and if one doesn’t work out for whatever reason, there’s 9 more ready to take their place.

 

[fourxmotion]

A couple of great amps thatstay under the radar are Coda and ATI. However, I don't think either do much marketing. I heard Legacy was allowing Coda to come along for the ride as they used their amps for a period of time. Not sure what happened with that, just heresay.

It doesn't help ATI that they have different levels of quality and you have to know a bit about them to get the higher performing units.

Coda still builds great amps, I hear most sales are overseas.

Bricasti is making the rounds of audio shows and I feel picking up steam. I thought it was a good move to bring out a more reasonably priced amp and DAC.

HTR has a recent review of a Vivid model. First I heard of them. Designed by a former B&W designer.

+1 for Coda. I have the CSib Integrated Amp paired with Aerial 7Ts Nice combo.

 

[bluegrassphile]

I think some of the online/mail order companies such as Salk and the latest SVS stuff are very underappreciated. I've not personally heard either brand (except for older SVS offerings). But from what I've read recently both Salk and the new SVS speakers are highly respectable.

 

[ben]

I think some of the online/mail order companies such as Salk and the latest SVS stuff are very underappreciated. I've not personally heard either brand (except for older SVS offerings). But from what I've read recently both Salk and the new SVS speakers are highly respectable.

Agree both brands are underrated. Salk sound has loyal fan following. Another two brands forgot to mentioned is Silveline and PBN.

 

[NorthStar]

Great thread, great read.

So many good audio products not enough time.

 

[Randy Myers]

If you do not live near a major metropolitan area you have zero chance of actually seeing and comparing many/most of the brands mentioned here. 30 years ago there were many stores to shop at. Back in Binghamton and Syracuse there were 3-5 stores each.

Now on the Central Coast of California there are zero stores (Best Buy does not count). The closes is Santa Barbara which has one store who rather blows and rarely has anything in stock.

You have to travel to LA or SF to find anything... so 4-5 hours, that can easily change into 6-7 hours because of insane traffic. Therefore thousands of brands mean little if you never can check them out.

The funny thing is there are more manufactures within driving range then B&M dealers (let's see, hmmm, W4S, Quicksilver, Vanderstein, Pass Labs/First Watt, SST, etc.). Add LA, SF, and San Diego and the manufactures out number dealers at least 3-1 or more. It is not a good trend in my view.

 

[ben]

If you do not live near a major metropolitan area you have zero chance of actually seeing and comparing many/most of the brands mentioned here. 30 years ago there were many stores to shop at. Back in Binghamton and Syracuse there were 3-5 stores each.

Now on the Central Coast of California there are zero stores (Best Buy does not count). The closes is Santa Barbara which has one store who rather blows and rarely has anything in stock.

You have to travel to LA or SF to find anything... so 4-5 hours, that can easily change into 6-7 hours because of insane traffic. Therefore thousands of brands mean little if you never can check them out.

The funny thing is there are more manufactures within driving range then B&M dealers (let's see, hmmm, W4S, Quicksilver, Vanderstein, Pass Labs/First Watt, SST, etc.). Add LA, SF, and San Diego and the manufactures out number dealers at least 3-1 or more. It is not a good trend in my view.

You have a valid point. High end audio is experiencing a slow death. More and more B&M stores are going out of business. There are just way way too many brands exist in compare to B&M stores. Today's generation is not really interested in high end audio, even if they are they just don't have money to spend on expensive gears.

 

[Mike]

You have a valid point. High end audio is experiencing a slow death. More and more B&M stores are going out of business. There are just way way too many brands exist in compare to B&M stores. Today's generation is not really interested in high end audio, even if they are they just don't have money to spend on expensive gears.

I’m not sure I agree. It’s growing around the world, but North America remains a question mark. The headphone industry is booming as is analog sales. One can only hope this leads to an industry resurgence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Everest Audio]

Bel Canto Design falls under the radar far too often. People think of them for their half-width products which have been around for a long time. Good pieces. But their upscale Black or Black EX series plays in the big leagues.

 

[Al M.]

IMO this topic should not exist, underrated or being not familiar with various brands is the direct result of poor marketing.

If I owned an component, speaker, cable or accessory company I would make sure everyone was aware of the business.

This is probably the best time this can be done with social media aside from demonstrations as well as other methods.

It also depends on where your priorities are. It may not all be that black and white. The decades old German brand Octave for example seems well known in Europe but only more recently aspired to get a foothold in the US, and has gotten some good press here lately. Schiit on the other hand seems much bigger in the US than in Europe.

I do have an Octave HP 700 preamp and an Octave RE 320 power amp myself, courtesy of Goodwin's High End in the Boston area (I got lucky that we still have dealers in the area where you can get gear from for auditioning). Couldn't be happier with my amplification.

 

[matt_zak]

My list of brands that you don't hear much about lately or never got much press IMHO (most have been mentioned):

Accustic Arts
ATI
BAT
Coda
Convergent Audio Technology
Duntech Speakers
FM Acoustics
Jeff Rowland
Kharma Speakers
Marten Speakers
Reference 3A Speakers
Shindo
Triangle Speakers
Unison Research
Vincent Audio

[FONT=&quot]
Two brands that died but might make a big comeback: Classe & Halcro[/FONT]

 

[XV-1]

It also depends on where your priorities are. It may not all be that black and white. The decades old German brand Octave for example seems well known in Europe but only more recently aspired to get a foothold in the US, and has gotten some good press here lately. Schiit on the other hand seems much bigger in the US than in Europe.

I do have an Octave HP 700 preamp and an Octave RE 320 power amp myself, courtesy of Goodwin's High End in the Boston area (I got lucky that we still have dealers in the area where you can get gear from for auditioning). Couldn't be happier with my amplification.

Schiit are an American brand, so it makes sense the brand is larger in the USA than Europe.

 

[Al M.]

Schiit are an American brand, so it makes sense the brand is larger in the USA than Europe.

Of course. And Octave are a European brand, so it makes sense they are larger in Europe. My point was, just because something has less 'respect' (per the title of the thread) in certain places, this doesn't mean it doesn't elsewhere. And non-global marketing and brand reputation is not necessarily a sign of failure, but may be more a sign of natural priorities.