Suggestions needed for a vinyl newbie

Matt715 said:
That brings me back to the whole "CD vs vinyl" argument. I'm not supposed to compare the sound to a CD, so what is it supposed to sound like? FM radio? AM radio? Again, I've never really heard a budget TT setup besides the Rega room at Axpona; it sounded wonderful for what it was.
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The entire analog rig (including amp, preamp, and speakers); how much?

I would be happy if I could get it to sound like what I hear from my Squeezebox but ecstatic if it had the detail and huge soundstage that my Oppo has.
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You're dreaming Matt; for that you need to go back to your bank and make a bigger withdrawal.

Am I expecting too much?
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It depends. How much do you have left in the bank.
 
Matt715 said:
Thanks for the offer- I guess I'm not sure if I should stay with it or not. Is there any way to check to see if my cartridge is any good? I did check the wiring against the info I found over on AK forum; it is correct.
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With a magnifying jewelry lens (30X), the stylus diamond should be real pointed (sharp as a sewing pin). It should also be in excellent shape; any less than that and time for a replacement, and pronto as it will deteriorate your LPs*.

* That's only one of the issues when buying used LPs.
 
NorthStar said:
The entire analog rig (including amp, preamp, and speakers); how much?



You're dreaming Matt; for that you need to go back to your bank and make a bigger withdrawal.



It depends. How much do you have left in the bank.
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Snipped from Stereophile's website:

031113-Rega-600.jpg​

In Room 806, one word said it all: Rega. Demming the Rega RP8 turntable with Rega Exact 2 cartridge ($3400), Rega Apollo R CD player ($1095), Rega Brio R integrated amp with phono stage ($895), and Rega RS3 floor-standing speakers ($1395/pair), the nattily bow-tied Barnaby Fry of The Sound Organisation was having a ball playing Johnny Adams' From the Heart. The system did best on Adams' voice—the voice was great—but when the blues artist sang, "I can't control the vibrations," I'm afraid he was talking about the limitations of the system's bottom reach and bass control. (For starters, I don't believe power conditioning or special equipment supports were in use.) But on voice and piano, Rega x 4 = very nice.

----

I don't remember them using the TT on the top; I thought it was the one on the second shelf but I could be wrong. When I entered the room, they were playing a CD and, to be honest, it sounded pretty awful. Then the salesman switched to the TT and it became a totally different system. I came away really impressed with what those little speakers could do. The guy sitting in front of me even turned around and commented to me how great it sounded.
 
That's the dose! If you liked it so much so as like a memorable addiction, then you are in the pursuit of that replication (musical experience). :)

You'll go as far as you truly want to go, and the closest is to get the same gear. Some people don't go far enough, and others go way beyond.

* Pretty good you came up as quick as you did with a perfect picture and all the audio components comprising that rig from that event. :cool:
 
One SUPER important thing: The music recording itself (that LP you listened to). ...And then the perfect 'timbre' between all component's synergy at the time and space (that room). ...And your overall mental disposition. ...Not so subtle after all.

* He had a very decent analog rig, and a good LP, and a happy smile.
I bet most people don't have such a nice analog rig. ...Certainly not me, even with roughly 5,000 LPs.
 
Matt

If you have a DMM you can check the cartridge to see if it meets spec's by testing the positive and negative posts on each side. For the Stanton 68x series you should get a reading of approximately 1300 ohms on each pair. It is rare for a cartridge to go bad unless is has been abused. More than likely the stylus is just worn out. If so you need to decide based on your other equipment what sound profile you like. The Stanton's, which are the Broadcast Industry Standard, are pretty much dead neutral. Other brands have their own flavor. What flavor appeals to you only you know. I like neutral, but others on this forum like Rob, like forward. So in the end it is your call. A properly set up TT will always in my opinion beat a digital source. If you like the more forward sound of the AT's and don't want to spend for their current price then buy a 120E/T for less and you get the same sound profile.
 
Matt, that guy (Barnaby Fry) with the Rega table; was he using a MC or MM cartridge (Exact 2)?
... $3,400 just for the TT & cart? ...That's pretty cheap; just the interconnects can cost more than that.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- :)
 
Jack said:
Matt

If you have a DMM you can check the cartridge to see if it meets spec's by testing the positive and negative posts on each side. For the Stanton 68x series you should get a reading of approximately 1300 ohms on each pair. It is rare for a cartridge to go bad unless is has been abused. More than likely the stylus is just worn out. If so you need to decide based on your other equipment what sound profile you like. The Stanton's, which are the Broadcast Industry Standard, are pretty much dead neutral. Other brands have their own flavor. What flavor appeals to you only you know. I like neutral, but others on this forum like Rob, like forward. So in the end it is your call. A properly set up TT will always in my opinion beat a digital source.
If you like the more forward sound of the AT's and don't want to spend for their current price then buy a 120E/T for less and you get the same sound profile.
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I used that one (last) myself. ...And a Pioneer TT (decent one, PL-sometin'), ...and did not rock my boat like my Rotel CD player. Not even half way.
 
Matt715 said:
Can I use a safety pin as a new stylus? :skeptical:

I was kind of thinking of the AT-440MLA. Going by what people say about it, it sounds like it might be right up my alley. I tend to like a slightly forward presentation. I wish it was still around $100 like it was a few years ago, but such is life.

Let's say a budget of $200 and see where that gets me. I am hesitant to spend more because again, this is more or less an experiment. I also have to save my pennies for a new furnace.
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You will either

Love the AT440Mla
or
forget vinyl

There is really nothing unlikeable about it (unless you are a high end guy into 3k carts...lol)
https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1476254_762453247103473_41761438_n.jpg

or the 120/E fro quite a bit less
Audio-Technica AT120E/T 1/2" Mount Cartridge .3 x .7 mil | 240-5536


1) Vinyl and CD - not a valid comparison
2) The quality of the album you are testing..there are good recordings and so so recordings

When properly setup and a working cart, I never met anyone that didn;t like the sound though SOME might prefer digital...

Hate to send you down a rabbit hole (in terms of money)..if you don't like vinyl you can EASILY get what you paid for the PL530
 
Jack said:
Matt

If you have a DMM you can check the cartridge to see if it meets spec's by testing the positive and negative posts on each side. For the Stanton 68x series you should get a reading of approximately 1300 ohms on each pair. It is rare for a cartridge to go bad unless is has been abused. More than likely the stylus is just worn out. If so you need to decide based on your other equipment what sound profile you like. The Stanton's, which are the Broadcast Industry Standard, are pretty much dead neutral. Other brands have their own flavor. What flavor appeals to you only you know. I like neutral, but others on this forum like Rob, like forward. So in the end it is your call. A properly set up TT will always in my opinion beat a digital source. If you like the more forward sound of the AT's and don't want to spend for their current price then buy a 120E/T for less and you get the same sound profile.
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I tested my cart with my trusty Fluke and the right side has a resistance of 1242 ohms and the left side 1238 ohms. I think I agree with everyone's diagnosis of a worn out stylus.

I guess I have a decision to make; try one of the AT cartridges or fix what I've got. I guess I have some reading to do. :skeptical:
 
Bob

Why would you buy a new cartridge if that one tests fine and just needs a stylus. If he wants another sound profile then that is another matter. That cartridge was an industry standard for decades along with the V-15. Very few modern MM's will touch it with a new OEM stylus.
 
I made some progress! :woot:

After busting out my magnifying glass and really inspecting the stylus under some good light, it doesn't look all that bad, or dirty, for that matter. I wish I had a super magnifying glass so I could take an even closer look at it.

As an experiment, I popped the brush out of the cartridge redid all of the setup. The second that needle hit the record I could tell it was different; I actually have a decent soundstage, good separation, and some top end. Comparing (here I go again) Pink Floyd's Money to the CD version, the top end detail is recessed and my bass is loose and tubby sounding; midrange and vocals are pretty close.

I set the tracking force at 1.25 grams and anti-skate at the same. I also removed the extra counter weight that was at the end of the arm, which I'm guessing was there to help compensate for the brush. Do these settings sound correct? What effect would adjusting the tracking weight higher or lower have on the sound? How about anti-skate? Do small adjustments make big impacts?
 
Jack said:
Bob

Why would you buy a new cartridge if that one tests fine and just needs a stylus. If he wants another sound profile then that is another matter. That cartridge was an industry standard for decades along with the V-15. Very few modern MM's will touch it with a new OEM stylus.
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Ok, but Matt said he wants a little more forwardness in the sound.
 
Matt

Try bumping the VTF up to 1.5 and drop the AS to 1 and see if that helps. If you are still having problems on the frequency extremes then that stylus is probably toast. None of my Stantons sound like you are describing.
 
Matt715 said:
I made some progress! :woot:

After busting out my magnifying glass and really inspecting the stylus under some good light, it doesn't look all that bad, or dirty, for that matter. I wish I had a super magnifying glass so I could take an even closer look at it.

As an experiment, I popped the brush out of the cartridge redid all of the setup. The second that needle hit the record I could tell it was different; I actually have a decent soundstage, good separation, and some top end. Comparing (here I go again) Pink Floyd's Money to the CD version, the top end detail is recessed and my bass is loose and tubby sounding; midrange and vocals are pretty close.

I set the tracking force at 1.25 grams and anti-skate at the same. I also removed the extra counter weight that was at the end of the arm, which I'm guessing was there to help compensate for the brush. Do these settings sound correct? What effect would adjusting the tracking weight higher or lower have on the sound? How about anti-skate? Do small adjustments make big impacts?
Click to expand...

Just follow the manufacturer's recommendation Matt. ...Tracking force.
- For anti-skate, adjust by look (arm resting in position horizontally suspended/balanced).

Let's see what Jack, Rob, and Jeff say.

* Get a 30X magnifier, cost only couple dollars. I got mine at a dollar store.
 
Yup...I thought that model Stanton was 1.75 no brush, 2.2 with ?

Matt, also make sure your arm is level (cart level) if it sits ASS up or ASS down, that is a problem (called VTA)
 
Rob

The VTF is 1.25 to 1.75 with no brush and plus 1g with the brush. I have never had to run the AS on a Stanton or Pickering at equal to the VTF. Using a blank LP, it usually comes out to about 75% of VTF. If he has a "Flabby Bottom and No Top" then the stylus while now clean probably has the facets worn off and is flat spotted on the sides. Kind of hard to tell if he likes the sound under those conditions. But if he wants more forward then the choices are out there for a price. The AT's, the Denon DL-110 or the Ortofon OM-10. I own all of them and the best of the bunch, if loaded correctly is the Denon. If Matt doesn't want to get into "loading" then the other two are better choices.
 
I tried a VTF of 1.5 and 1.75; the latter tightened up the bass a lot but it is still a lot more loose than what I am used to. The treble is still recessed but that might also just be the record or just the cartridge itself. The funny thing is that at the end of Money, I can hear the lady talking about the cruisin' for a bruisin' quite well; maybe even better than my CD...

I tried the anti-skate at a few different spots but I couldn't hear any difference at all.
 
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