Suggestions needed for a vinyl newbie

I received the album today and it's in nice shape and very clean with no pops or ticks. However, your recording sounds better than what I'm hearing out of my system. The bass is on par, possibly even a touch better, but your recording has a better soundstage and way more air to it. Where do I go from here?
 
Matt715 said:
Well, that's not going to happen. I do like the tra-la-la part though. :)
Click to expand...

Hi Matt..well, mine was recorded straight in so that eliminates system difference. So we go to three things:

1) Setup - ALIGNMENT ALIGNMENT ALIGNMENT - and I don't mean with just a protractor. I mean VTF (tracking weight) VTA (arm angle - is the arm ass up or down - neither is good...it should be pretty damn straight while on the LP with perhaps a tad cart down tail up and I do mean just a tad..) Azimuth - is the cart parallel to the album when you look face on. Table is dead level. Anti-skate is set right.

2) Cart needs to break in

3) Phono stage - Mine was recorded using a $50 phono stage (believe it or not) but that thing is a little miracle, the ART DJ Pre II...not sure if I mentioned before
Amazon.com: ART DJPRE II Phono Preamplifier RCA Type Input and Output Switchable Low Cut Filter: Musical Instruments

I would start with option 1...but please remind me, what are you playing through ?
 
Thanks for the ideas. I already have a DJ Pre as a preamp which I have hooked up to my H/K AVR 247. I haven't checked the level of my table; I'll have to try and find my small level and see how far off it is. I set the VTF at 1.4g which is optimal according to the instructions with the anti-skate the same. I don't hear any distortion, so I'm guessing the anti-skate is pretty good. I'll go back this weekend and check out the alignment when I have daylight to aid my accuracy.

I also got a NOS Stanton stylus from Jack, which in my limited usage, has the same sound characteristics that I'm experiencing with my AT. While not as bright on the top end, it has the same lack of a holographic soundstage that I hear in your needle drop or when I listen to the digital side of my system.
 
Matt

If you have the same symptoms from both cartridges then the problem is somewhere else as Rob said. Could be alignment or overhang. Simple thing though, are you running the HK on Direct Mode when you are using the TT? Make sure there is no processing going on. I had a 645 for years and if I wanted to just play a CD with the Oppo in stereo I had to remember to turn the processing off.
 
Jack,

Yep, no processing going on but it doesn't change anything if I do turn it on. I set the overhang of both cartridges to 49mm, which is where the stock one was set when I got it, and coincides with the info I've found in various places.

For an experiment, can I hook my preamp directly to my amp and control the volume with the gain? That would at least tell me if it's a problem with my AVR or not. My gut feeling is that I have a problem with the way my TT is setup.

With all the albums I've collected, including the Herb Alpert one, I've yet to have one where I've even been close to happy with the sound of it. Even though they are all used, I would think some of them should sound ok. :S
 
Matt

From looking at the back panel diagram of the 247, I don't see anyway to do that. Unlike Rob, I am not a huge fan of the ART. While it is better than the phono section of most receivers, it will not sound like the Phonomena. If you have the capacitance switch at 100pf and the gain level at or below 0db gain, it should sound o.k. unless the alignment is out. Try downloading a Stevenson protractor from Vinyl Engine and see if that helps. Set the overhang at 49mm and square and then check the alignment with the protractor. You may have to adjust the cartridge off of the shortcut.
 
Jack,

I don't use the internal amps in my 247. I have a Emotiva XPA-5.

As far as the Pre goes, I have been running it on 100pf with a gain of 3-4db. At 3-4db, depending on the album, the clip light occasionally changes from green to red if it's a extremely dynamic passage; 99% of the time it's green. If I run it at 0, it's too quiet to get moderate volume out of with either cart.
 
Okay, the doctor is in. Now I see the issue.

Forget about DIRECT, I assume you have it in STEREO mode ? ( I looked at your user manual)

And then it mentions other modes, I suppose that's like concert hall, etc etc..

Bottom line, its an AVR. I am not disparage AVR's but they are not always designed to act as a stereo system. Just not their nature and forte. The same way adding two more speakers to a stereo does not make it a surround sound DTS IMAX...LOL

I don't know enough about the settings to get it just right but I don't know if you are going to get that soundstage you seek. Yet, I am trying to think this through.

I recorded that with a cheap tt, the At440MLa and the Art DJ pro...all into a computer. A needle drop. So no amp involved. Then you played it back...through your system ? And it has staging, yes ?

Okay...need to think ...
 
Rob

Even in the Stereo Mode there is a setting for "Analog Bypass", which on other units is called Pure Direct. That is what it needs to be set on. That takes all processing functions out. (page 16 of the manual) That is how I ran my HK to just use the mains in the HT setup. While it may not be the same as a dedicated two channel setup it will still be fine in that setting. The soundstage after that will be based on the setup of the speakers in terms of distance from each other, from the back wall and from boundary walls.
 
I've tired it in the direct mode (and different connections) and currently just have it plugged into one of the free stereo jacks, in stereo (no DSP) mode. It sounds the same when hooked up either way.

Rob, your needle drop sounds great to me. I hear lots of detail, soundstage, and layering (for the lack of a better audiophile word). With mine, the detail is ok but I don't get the nice three dimensional soundstage. When I'm playing the needle drop, I have it running into my AVR via HDMI, so I'm using the AVR's crappy DAC.

My AVR is really just a "temporary" component. I'm just waiting for the right preamp to come along that will fit my needs while in my price range before I change things up. For what it is, it doesn't sound too bad when I'm not using the internal amps, but it's what I have to work with right now. I do have a old Pioneer AVR with a built in phono stage that I could get out and hook up if need be. It doesn't have any preouts so I'm not sure it would be a fair comparison.

When I get a chance on Sunday, I'm going to take a close look at how everything is setup in regards to my TT. I have serious doubts about it being level and I know that the VTA is not level. Since the VTA is not adjustable on it, I might be able to get satisfactory results with the addition of a mat.
 
Ah..yes, that could be it...the more likely...Looking at your equipment, you have NICE STUFF MAN...LOL. SO you should NOT have to switch...especially if the digital file sounded good..

It never hurts to go back to basics..
 
MATT..I had an ephinay ...Okay, maybe not so bold but thought of something...

Have you played other albums ? How do they sound..?

On the Herb alpert, what if we have different pressings !!! That could account for the difference..not all pressings/countries, etc .are alike...see if you can post a picture of yours
 
Here's a pic of the label:

mm.jpg

The handwritten numbers are: A&M SP03728A-P3

Honestly, every album I've played so far as been really underwhelming. The only one so far that I've played that rivals Magic Man is my clean copy of Chicago X that I picked up at the thrift store. I did score a TON of records from a lady down the road for nothing. They really aren't the type of music I listen to and I have yet to go through them and see how badly they are beaten, but the few I've spun sound ho hum too.

I really need to buy a new, known good sounding album to really say whether or not something is going on.

I'm currently in the process of going through my table, and it was pretty are out of level. I stuck a few pennies under one of the legs and it's pretty level now. I'm also trying to setup my Dad's PL-41 so I can compare what his sounds like with his cart compared to mine. I'm having a heck of a time trying to figure out how to balance the tonearm, though. It's not working the way the instructions indicate the way it should work. :(

I'm off to find a tutorial on that thing...
 
Scratch the PL-41 for now. The bottom thrust washer for the spindle is kaput and it looks like I'll have to make something to fix that issue.
 
I spent a few hours adjusting and rechecking everything to find....

It actually sounds good! I was able to achieve and then improve on the sound of Rob's needle drop. My table is now level, the alignment ever so slightly tweaked, and VTF set slightly heavier. I was actually surprised at the difference leveling my table made.

I borrowed the mat off of the PL-41 and stacked it to correct my VTA as an experiment. I found that it improved the overall detail, but killed my bass. Would buying a proper mat bring the bass back or should I just stick with the stock mat?
 
Ahh...I knew it had to be setting.

You never watched my video ?

Level table is absolutely a first step in doing your other alignments ,,,GLAD IT WORKS

And BTW..I have the same herb alpert....:hi:
 
Matt715 said:
I borrowed the mat off of the PL-41 and stacked it to correct my VTA as an experiment. I found that it improved the overall detail, but killed my bass. Would buying a proper mat bring the bass back or should I just stick with the stock mat?
Click to expand...

That is opposite of what should happen. Adjusting VTA tail-up usually results in more detail with less bass. Adjusting VTA tail-down usually sacrifices detail for more bass. Adding the additional mat on your turntable inherently adjusts the tonearm to be more tail-down and should increase the amount of bass, not kill it. Strange....

Mike
 
Matt..best bet...get that think almost dead level at the cart body.

Now that all else is fixed, try the original mat..tail up slightly ? And see how that sounds...
 
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