Record cleaning machines

MusicDirector said:
I hate to break it to you, but an RCM is an RCM in function. Designs may vary, but function is the same as the goal is the same for us vinyl folk. I get the same results from my VPI 16.5, proper cleaning fluids and proper methods. The point is that the gunk gets removed, one way or the other. If I had >3,000 LPs there would be no question that I would go for something quieter and full auto. As much as I enjoy cleaning records, I would not want to think about doing 3000 without automation or something. What needs to be kept in mind is that a record's cleanliness is mostly dependent on the condition in which it starts. No proper RCM is better than any other at doing this. You can't restore a record that has been beaten or whatnot whether you use a $600 RCM or $4000 RCM.
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I hate to break it to you, but I don't think you are correct. Have you used either of the 2 ultrasonic machines? Have you read the reviews of the Klaudio by Myles B. Astor (klaudio record cleaner) and Micheal Fremer (KLAUDiO KD-CLN-LP200 Ultrasonic Record Cleaning Machine Reviewed | Analog Planet) ? Do so, and I think you will change your tune!

Also, there is an additional advantage- no static electricity from the cleaning process! Major, IMHO!
 
MtnHam said:
I hate to break it to you, but I don't think you are correct. Have you used either of the 2 ultrasonic machines? Have you read the reviews of the Klaudio by Myles B. Astor (klaudio record cleaner) and Micheal Fremer (KLAUDiO KD-CLN-LP200 Ultrasonic Record Cleaning Machine Reviewed | Analog Planet) ? Do so, and I think you will change your tune!

Also, there is an additional advantage- no static electricity from the cleaning process! Major, IMHO!
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I already stated that I have not used a $4000 RCM and have no opportunity to do so. I also stated that I hope to see one in action live to see it's effectiveness. Even at that though I could not afford one ever or justify it personally. I also stated that I do not doubt it's effectiveness, only question the design and I also stated that I do not know the unknowns. I suggest that you read more carefully please.
This is not a contest of correct or incorrect, if it were then I would be ruining all my records and that is not the case. I get the same results as you state unless my system is not on when I play the records and I doubt that's the case.
I do not read reviews in audio magazines, I don't care who is writing them. I do not trust a single word of any of them. I do not consult audio magazines for any reason just as I do not watch or listen to the news. If I read one of those it would change my tune for the worse, so no thank you.
As for static electricity, that can come from a variety of sources, including vacuuming records, but the trick is to not over vacuum. I have found that 2 revolutions is enough, anymore and the risk of developing static on a record increases exponentially at high rates. If you are in a dry environment such as during the cold months or if there are santa ana winds and such you will be dealing with static of one amount or another. I don't have static issues except for those times.
I never said a $4000 RCM is no good, just not justifiable for me. I just beg to differ with anyone who claims that a $4000 RCM is better than any other proper RCM and cleaning method.
 
MusicDirector said:
I already stated that I have not used a $4000 RCM and have no opportunity to do so. I also stated that I hope to see one in action live to see it's effectiveness. Even at that though I could not afford one ever or justify it personally. I also stated that I do not doubt it's effectiveness, only question the design and I also stated that I do not know the unknowns. I suggest that you read more carefully please.
This is not a contest of correct or incorrect, if it were then I would be ruining all my records and that is not the case. I get the same results as you state unless my system is not on when I play the records and I doubt that's the case.
I do not read reviews in audio magazines, I don't care who is writing them. I do not trust a single word of any of them. I do not consult audio magazines for any reason just as I do not watch or listen to the news. If I read one of those it would change my tune for the worse, so no thank you.
As for static electricity, that can come from a variety of sources, including vacuuming records, but the trick is to not over vacuum. I have found that 2 revolutions is enough, anymore and the risk of developing static on a record increases exponentially at high rates. If you are in a dry environment such as during the cold months or if there are santa ana winds and such you will be dealing with static of one amount or another. I don't have static issues except for those times.
I never said a $4000 RCM is no good, just not justifiable for me. I just beg to differ with anyone who claims that a $4000 RCM is better than any other proper RCM and cleaning method.
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You can deny reality all you want, ostrich head in the sand so to speak. Your loss. I prefer to read and be informed. I am convinced my reality improves because I do. Scrub and suck, at least for me, is simply not as effective!
 
MtnHam said:
You can deny reality all you want, ostrich head in the sand so to speak. Your loss. I prefer to read and be informed. I am convinced my reality improves because I do. Scrub and suck is simply not as effective!
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I deal in reality, that;s why I do not trust magazines. I'd be led down a lot of terrible paths and be in debtors prison if I followed the advice of reviewers in magazines and other spin doctors. I'd rather see for myself or hear from unbiased users of products.
If I am losing then perhaps I should get rid of all my LPs before I destroy them with my "studied and proven methods. I can then get rid of my turntables and everything since I would not be using them. If I followed your logic that is exactly what I would have to do, but not just me. The same would have to be mandated for anyone else who does not have a $4000 RCM.
So why should it take $4000 to clean a record, but a $600 RCM will not work?
To each their own and of you can afford a $4000 RCM then more power to you, but to claim it's the only way to clean records goes too far in my book.
So since this is turning into a cable like argument, I bow out now of not only the whole RCM thing, but seriously considering bowing out of the hobby as well because I feel like I am trying to force myself to enjoy it knowing that I never will.
Thems the breaks.
~Eric
 
Eric & Tom, you both have very good points, but it doesn't make either "right"! Where one is in their audio journey, is their own personal space, of which has been gained through careful navigation from the knowledge that they have gleaned from experience.
We are here to share an unusually exceptional site that has some amazingly wonderful people on it.... & guess what, it's all about the music guys.
Sit back, with a brewski of course, or maybe even a smooth as cat shit syrah/shiraz, play "Let it be" & be thankful before you get the smote!

P.S. I prefer the Keith Monks!
 
sharkmouth said:
Eric & Tom, you both have very good points, but it doesn't make either "right"! Where one is in their audio journey, is their own personal space, of which has been gained through careful navigation from the knowledge that they have gleaned from experience.
We are here to share an unusually exceptional site that has some amazingly wonderful people on it.... & guess what, it's all about the music guys.
Sit back, with a brewski of course, or maybe even a smooth as cat shit syrah/shiraz, play "Let it be" & be thankful before you get the smote!

P.S. I prefer the Keith Monks!
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Well said and very true!
 
MtnHam said:
Eric- This hobby, at least for me, is about the enjoyment of music and my system is a means towards that end. Please don't let a difference of opinion about a piece of gear sour you on the hobby. Enjoy the music!
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Indeed, I would think any system is the means to that end otherwise how could we play music? That said though, I've been thinking and looking and realize that I just can't keep the pace and am throwing hard earned, difficult to come by money at a dead horse. I've been trying to upgrade my daily driver/modern system for almost 3 years now and it just isn't going to work. Everything except the CD player and speakers I've upgraded has hit a sour note and I should not have spent money on it. I was saving up for a new receiver and possible supplement amp, but I now feel that it may be throwing good money after bad since I also am not enjoying music the way I used to these days. (That part may be easy to fix). I am contemplating giving up on vinyl due to the amount of maintenance involved, it's just too much for 30 minutes of music. I didn't used to think that, but now in looking at it, it is becoming clearer to me. I don't want to commit a moral crime by ruining LPs or disregarding them. I need to think about this.
 
Your overthinking it a bit Eric. For me most of my albums are from $1 to
$7.99. All my favorites I have 2 or 3 backups in mint condition. Most are originals
I've never even played most of the backups. I figure if my spin clean eventually hurts anything it's not the end of the world. I do have a handful of expensive 180g records and a couple older used records that I paid like $25 for( my Dave Brubeck 6eye columbias).
For the most part all are replaceable for not much $$. And the record shopping is a huge part of the hobby for me. I enjoy it a lot !!
Now i also lost a good 2000 records in a bad relationship, and am re buying my collection again.
But I have now maybe 200 records , once I start to get a decent collection again I will pick up a 16.5 which is the best value in all record cleaning. And you really need to think about spending that $4000 to beat it. If down the road my collection grows very large and loaded with more expensive $30-40 records. An audio desk will for sure be something that I would consider.
Maybe not even, physically cleaning each side of a record seems more satisfying then dropping it in and pressing a button.
Don't give up!!!!! You'll miss it :)
 
Petro85 said:
Your overthinking it a bit Eric. For me most of my albums are from $1 to
$7.99. All my favorites I have 2 or 3 backups in mint condition. Most are originals
I've never even played most of the backups. I figure if my spin clean eventually hurts anything it's not the end of the world. I do have a handful of expensive 180g records and a couple older used records that I paid like $25 for( my Dave Brubeck 6eye columbias).
For the most part all are replaceable for not much $$. And the record shopping is a huge part of the hobby for me. I enjoy it a lot !!
Now i also lost a good 2000 records in a bad relationship, and am re buying my collection again.
But I have now maybe 200 records , once I start to get a decent collection again I will pick up a 16.5 which is the best value in all record cleaning. And you really need to think about spending that $4000 to beat it. If down the road my collection grows very large and loaded with more expensive $30-40 records. An audio desk will for sure be something that I would consider.
Maybe not even, physically cleaning each side of a record seems more satisfying then dropping it in and pressing a button.
Don't give up!!!!! You'll miss it :)
Click to expand...

I have about 300 LPs at this point, 90% of them are used $1 to $3. (I won't pay over $5 for a record and for that much if it's a single record it better be near mint. Box sets are the exception to the rule). I have no backups outside of digital because finding mint cond or unplayed copies of the stuff I like on vinyl is mission impossible. Most of it has not been reissued and even if some of it was, I don't want re-issues. I'm not a collector so I don't go for 180 gram, audiophile vinyl and such. I buy records to play them and nothing more. I place zero monetary value in them. Even with all that it's easier to replace a record than to replace a stylus. My collection won't grow any larger than about 360 or so and yes, I am very confident in that. I don't have the room for any beyond that for one thing and I am rather picky about what I want on vinyl vs CD. I have restored records in terrible condition to the point of from very listenable to "is that a CD or a record"?! I have had records that just don't get there no matter what and a $4000 RCM would not help them either. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a record will get to listenable quality as there is always the chance of unseen damage or what have you. I have CCR records that I may resort to just buying the CD version as finding a restorable copy is mission impossible. I have also purchased several copies of some LPs until I got one that restored beautifully. (Took 4 copies of a couple of 5th Dimension LPs to get there for example). I've done all this with my VPI 16.5, AVIS fluids, Homebrew and appropriate methodology. I studied the hell out of record care and cleaning before I got my RCM and I was doing it manually as well. I studied the chemicals, the agitation methods, brushes, etc. The good and the bad, to know why the bad is bad and why the good is good. I did this study solid for 4 months! Took all the good and applied it and have had some surprisingly pleasant results. Now though, I'm questioning it all because of the records that did not pass. $4000 is beyond my abilities for something lie an RCM. I attempted the impossible of getting my Paradigms and succeeded, but it took a bit too much to do it. Now I'm attempting an equally impossible attempt for a new receiver and amp which I am now strongly considering stopping. If I had 800+ records I would begin to consider a $4000 automated RCM and if I had 1000+ I would make an effort to get one because I already know that even if my cleaning methods were perfect (nothing is perfect) I'm not so sure I would still be wanting to use my VPI and such to clean 1000+ records. I'd be far better off with a $4000 auto RCM then. I also get the most enjoyment from record hunting and I don't think I'm ready to stop that part of it yet. Once I get what is left on my wish list though, I'll stop for several reasons and that list is not very long now. (About 30 LPs or so).
 
I'm catching the end of this thread, but as an owner of a very, very nice HANNL cleaning machine, I've had a chance to put some of my previously vacuum cleaned vinyl through the Audiodesk and indeed I have cleaner, quieter records. The idea of spending less time to reach the goal is very much worth it to me. Where at first I didn't mind the ritual of cleaning a record, when you get an order of a dozen records delivered the idea of spending the time standing over the vacuum cleaner isn't nearly as exciting as the idea of spinning up those records for a listen. The AudioDesk won't likely decrease the actual time I invest to clean a record, but I won't have to stand there to be part of the ritual.

I just don't get the whole idea complaining about the price of an object. You can afford it or you can't. You can appreciate what the object offers or you can't. This is what the free market is all about. If it has value to you, you decide if the price is justified by the value received and then buy it or not. Don't we all do this all the time, whether it be for audio gear, automobiles, wine, cigars, sporting events, etc?

Just remember, your money is the manifestation of your life energy, which you traded for. Spend it wisely or spend it foolishly, you'll only get a passing judgement from me, if any at all. We all pursue happiness in our own ways, and if it makes you happy and your not crapping on anyone else's happiness, I say good on you. But if you are dumping on someone else's sense of value, it just tells me you're not too happy yourself.
 
Bobvin said:
I'm catching the end of this thread, but as an owner of a very, very nice HANNL cleaning machine, I've had a chance to put some of my previously vacuum cleaned vinyl through the Audiodesk and indeed I have cleaner, quieter records. The idea of spending less time to reach the goal is very much worth it to me. Where at first I didn't mind the ritual of cleaning a record, when you get an order of a dozen records delivered the idea of spending the time standing over the vacuum cleaner isn't nearly as exciting as the idea of spinning up those records for a listen. The AudioDesk won't likely decrease the actual time I invest to clean a record, but I won't have to stand there to be part of the ritual.

I just don't get the whole idea complaining about the price of an object. You can afford it or you can't. You can appreciate what the object offers or you can't. This is what the free market is all about. If it has value to you, you decide if the price is justified by the value received and then buy it or not. Don't we all do this all the time, whether it be for audio gear, automobiles, wine, cigars, sporting events, etc?

Just remember, your money is the manifestation of your life energy, which you traded for. Spend it wisely or spend it foolishly, you'll only get a passing judgement from me, if any at all. We all pursue happiness in our own ways, and if it makes you happy and your not crapping on anyone else's happiness, I say good on you. But if you are dumping on someone else's sense of value, it just tells me you're not too happy yourself.
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+1. Well said
 
Well, I got away from the whole vinyl thing a week ago now after messing with it for 4 years. It just got out of hand for me with cost, confusion, worry, etc. I feel liberated. I will miss the hunting for vinyl, but that's ok. What I will miss more is the stuff that is not on CD and only on vinyl. It's great for those who can handle it, I just couldn't anymore.
 
My Klaudio Arrived today.....
Just Wow
I was missing so much on my vinyl
yne2y6aj.jpg

:)


ARC4LIFE
 
highEndguy said:
My Klaudio Arrived today.....
Just Wow
I was missing so much on my vinyl
ARC4LIFE
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Congrats Nelson! I'd like to give one of these a whirl someday. Maybe once my collection gets a little bigger. Is it that much better than the VPI that's sitting next to it?
 
Is like taking the seal on new LPs
I think much better than new
Is so quiet now, is amazing
And the VPI works but I have to do like 7 steps on each side and I don't think it get closer than with the Klaudio





ARC4LIFE
 
highEndguy said:
My Klaudio Arrived today.....
Just Wow
I was missing so much on my vinyl
yne2y6aj.jpg

:)


ARC4LIFE
Click to expand...

Very nice, I hate cleaning records but has to be done. I have a Loricraft PRC4 and does a marvelous job but it just takes way too long for me so anything that can speed up the process without degrading the sonics is on my short list to get.

I have been following along and so far I haven't read anyone having any mechanical reliability issues like the other one from Germany which is a good sign
 
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