Posting etiquette

[mep]

Does everyone think that if you start a thread on AS that no one should post on your thread unless they agree with everything you have said? It seems to me that if you post something,you should expect people to voice their opinions about what you have posted even if that means they don't necessarily agree with you. I know some people expect nothing but love, sunshine, exaltations of their innate genius, and plenty of cyber pats on the back to reinforce their brilliance. Some of these same people get lathered up if you voice your opinion about things they have posted and it doesn't jive with their sense of self-worth and reality as they envision it.

Any thread I post here on AS as well as links to reviews I write I expect to be open to criticism from anyone who takes the time to read my posts or reviews I have linked to. I kind of thought that is how things worked and how sometimes you learn when people offer up criticism. It doesn't mean you always agree with your critics, but it also doesn't mean you should disparage them just because you don't agree with them and they weren't smart enough to recognize your brilliance. I have noticed that on AS that it always seems to be open season on reviewers (no ethics, you can't trust them, they have all been bought, their reviews are horrible unless they praise something you own, they have crappy rooms, etc., etc.) and even though I am a reviewer, I don't get in a snit over those comments and run off to see a therapist in order to rebuild my damaged psyche.

I guess the lesson I have learned here is that I will no longer comment on any thread on AS unless I'm in 100% backslapping agreement with the OP.

 

[rbbert]

I have always thought that open discussion in any forum topic is a given, along with courteous language. If that's not what you want, start your own blog and censor the responses (if you even allow them)

 

[Alpinist]

Does everyone think that if you start a thread on AS that no one should post on your thread unless they agree with everything you have said? It seems to me that if you post something,you should expect people to voice their opinions about what you have posted even if that means they don't necessarily agree with you. I know some people expect nothing but love, sunshine, exaltations of their innate genius, and plenty of cyber pats on the back to reinforce their brilliance. Some of these same people get lathered up if you voice your opinion about things they have posted and it doesn't jive with their sense of self-worth and reality as they envision it.

Any thread I post here on AS as well as links to reviews I write I expect to be open to criticism from anyone who takes the time to read my posts or reviews I have linked to. I kind of thought that is how things worked and how sometimes you learn when people offer up criticism. It doesn't mean you always agree with your critics, but it also doesn't mean you should disparage them just because you don't agree with them and they weren't smart enough to recognize your brilliance. I have noticed that on AS that it always seems to be open season on reviewers (no ethics, you can't trust them, they have all been bought, their reviews are horrible unless they praise something you own, they have crappy rooms, etc., etc.) and even though I am a reviewer, I don't get in a snit over those comments and run off to see a therapist in order to rebuild my damaged psyche.

I guess the lesson I have learned here is that I will no longer comment on any thread on AS unless I'm in 100% backslapping agreement with the OP.

Mark,

It all depends how a differing opinion or criticism is delivered, constructively or rudely.

Ken

 

[mep]

Mark,

It all depends how a differing opinion or criticism is delivered, constructively or rudely.

Ken

How it's perceived is all in the eye and tears of the OP. I have found intent doesn't matter.

 

[Don C]

I have read numerous instances when a contrary opinion is delivered, not in the spirit of respected discourse, but instead with all the finesse of a flaming anvil. I have commented aloud to myself numerous times (reading this forum, in fact), "Why does he have to be such an asshole to people with whom he disagrees?"

Respectful dialogue ... I think it's all about respectful dialogue.

Perhaps that's a bit too "PC" for some, as they might argue that spirited debate is that which strips away all pretense to expose real truths. However, I think that minds all charged up with emotion are less capable of rationally discussing their differing views due to being on the defensive. And the concept of "The best defense is a good (read: aggressive) offense" is, to quote from a recent (obtusely related) post on another forum, "quintessentially assholic" in the context of a text interface, which is not able to include vocal inflection, gestural nuance, and other social cues that make real debate successful.

EDIT: A further thought, and more in line with the OP's question: I find myself reluctant to post a contrary viewpoint on certain instances, such as when the OP is clearly gushing with gooey happiness; he's looking for support and I'm not going to crap all over it, so I refrain. If, however, there seems to be genuine curiosity, I'll post my thoughts based on my own experiences and try to do so tactfully so as not to set anybody on the defensive. From there it's touch and go based on the subsequent postings in the thread: I'll remain involved if the discussion provides opportunity to do so or I'll back away and observe if my thoughts haven't offered much to the following discussion.

 

[Alpinist]

How it's perceived is all in the eye and tears of the OP. I have found intent doesn't matter.

Mark,

Then I would respectfully say that the person offering the differing opinion or criticism should more carefully examine their words to ensure that they accurately match their intent.

Ken

 

[Don C]

Mark,

Then I would respectfully say that the person offering the differing opinion or criticism should more carefully examine the way they are delivering their information to ensure that it accurately matches their intent.

Ken

Word.

 

[Alpinist]

Word.

Thanks Don!

 

[BruceLet]

"I know some people expect nothing but love, sunshine, exaltations of their innate genius, and plenty of cyber pats on the back to reinforce their brilliance. Some of these same people get lathered up if you voice your opinion about things they have posted and it doesn't jive with their sense of self-worth and reality as they envision it."

Are you seriously asking a question in the OP? It appears to be dripping with sarcasm. I don't think it's about agreeing or disagreeing.

 

[Mike]

The OP poses a very interesting question. I think the answer is "it depends". If someone is saying "hey guys, I have $20,000 to spend on new speakers, I have some 8watt 300b tube amps I just won't sell, what do you suggest?" Of course, if someone says "REVEL SALON 2's!!" - then I would suspect people to jump in and say "you're crazy, those speakers need big power!"

If someone posts "here is my new Marantz DAC!" - I would not expect someone to say "man, I had that DAC, it sucks!"

It's all in how you phrase things. If someone is doing an experiment with RCM's, and the chemicals used don't seem real world enough, then I would say, "sounds like an interesting experiment. If you're up to the task, I would love to see a comparison of some more normal, every day things we encounter such as dust, finger prints, oil from fingers, maybe even some left over Cheeto's dust...hahaha! Maybe you could leave a couple of records in a dusty area for a couple of weeks and see what one gets it clean? I would really like to see that!"

The point is, if you see a problem, offer a solution or an alternative in a constructive manner, otherwise, "criticism is just bad way of making a request." - Diane Sawyer.

No, everyone doesn't expect everyone to agree on everything - but diplomacy is an art.

“Diplomacy is the art of saying ‘nice doggie’ until you can find a rock.” - Will Rogers

 

[mep]

"I know some people expect nothing but love, sunshine, exaltations of their innate genius, and plenty of cyber pats on the back to reinforce their brilliance. Some of these same people get lathered up if you voice your opinion about things they have posted and it doesn't jive with their sense of self-worth and reality as they envision it."

Are you seriously asking a question in the OP? It appears to be dripping with sarcasm. I don't think it's about agreeing or disagreeing.

Yes, I am seriously asking a question. And yes, some of things I said were dripping with sarcasm.

 

[mep]

The OP poses a very interesting question. I think the answer is "it depends". If someone is saying "hey guys, I have $20,000 to spend on new speakers, I have some 8watt 300b tube amps I just won't sell, what do you suggest?" Of course, if someone says "REVEL SALON 2's!!" - then I would suspect people to jump in and say "you're crazy, those speakers need big power!"

If someone posts "here is my new Marantz DAC!" - I would not expect someone to say "man, I had that DAC, it sucks!"

It's all in how you phrase things. If someone is doing an experiment with RCM's, and the chemicals used don't seem real world enough, then I would say, "sounds like an interesting experiment. If you're up to the task, I would love to see a comparison of some more normal, every day things we encounter such as dust, finger prints, oil from fingers, maybe even some left over Cheeto's dust...hahaha! Maybe you could leave a couple of records in a dusty area for a couple of weeks and see what one gets it clean? I would really like to see that!"

The point is, if you see a problem, offer a solution or an alternative in a constructive manner, otherwise, "criticism is just bad way of making a request." - Diane Sawyer.

No, everyone doesn't expect everyone to agree on everything - but diplomacy is an art.

“Diplomacy is the art of saying ‘nice doggie’ until you can find a rock.” - Will Rogers

My attempt to say that was this:

For me, it would be much more interesting to see you clean a stack of LPs that came from thrift stores, flea markets, Ebay, etc., and have you tell us which machine routinely gave better results with real-world cleaning solutions designed for cleaning LPs. Some before and after pictures would be nice as well. I have no interest in cleaning LPs contaminated with boogers, flu snot, peanut butter and jelly, or lipstick.

 

[the professor]

As I was reading this thread - I was thinking exactly what you stated Mike.

If the OP is asking opinions or giving a link to a review or something like that then - all opinions are welcome, wanted and desired.

If it's sharing thread/post - and sharing is a big part of this site - then criticism isn't really appropriate. Many many friends have been made through this site, and every site for that matter, and sharing to your friends is a great part of it.

 

[Mike]

My attempt to say that was this:

Mark - I missed that. I've been slammed all day with work. I guess, if you just had just posted "For me, it would be much more interesting to see you clean a stack of LPs that came from thrift stores, flea markets, Ebay, etc., and have you tell us which machine routinely gave better results with real-world cleaning solutions designed for cleaning LPs. Some before and after pictures would be nice as well." - that would have been perfect. Short and sweet.

 

[BruceLet]

Yes, I am seriously asking a question. And yes, some of things I said were dripping with sarcasm.

Good luck with that combination….and you wonder why you get the reactions that you get. It's useless.

 

[Odyssey]

A definition of diplomacy by Henry Kissinger: "The art of delivering the worst possible news in the best possible light".

 

[a.wayne]

I have always thought that open discussion in any forum topic is a given, along with courteous language. If that's not what you want, start your own blog and censor the responses (if you even allow them)

It's a wheat and chaff thing some tier 2/3 reviewers take themselves too seriously if you ask me, especially the ones with their speakers 3 feet apart ..


:rofl:

 

[a.wayne]

The OP poses a very interesting question. I think the answer is "it depends". If someone is saying "hey guys, I have $20,000 to spend on new speakers, I have some 8watt 300b tube amps I just won't sell, what do you suggest?" Of course, if someone says "REVEL SALON 2's!!" - then I would suspect people to jump in and say "you're crazy, those speakers need big power!"

If someone posts "here is my new Marantz DAC!" - I would not expect someone to say "man, I had that DAC, it sucks!"

It's all in how you phrase things. If someone is doing an experiment with RCM's, and the chemicals used don't seem real world enough, then I would say, "sounds like an interesting experiment. If you're up to the task, I would love to see a comparison of some more normal, every day things we encounter such as dust, finger prints, oil from fingers, maybe even some left over Cheeto's dust...hahaha! Maybe you could leave a couple of records in a dusty area for a couple of weeks and see what one gets it clean? I would really like to see that!"

The point is, if you see a problem, offer a solution or an alternative in a constructive manner, otherwise, "criticism is just bad way of making a request." - Diane Sawyer.

No, everyone doesn't expect everyone to agree on everything - but diplomacy is an art.

“Diplomacy is the art of saying ‘nice doggie’ until you can find a rock.” - Will Rogers

Sorry Mike , this is not about you , me or anyone posting here, this is about critiquing the reviewer , look at the hidden summary .....

 

[Mike]

Sorry Mike , this is not about you , me or anyone posting here, this is about critiquing the reviewer , look at the hidden summary .....

I'm lost, what reviewer? David? He made it clear he's a curious consumer.

 

[jdandy]

There's no reason to pussy foot around. The original topic here seems directly related to posts made by Mark (mep) to David (Golucid) in the Just now purchased the ClearAudio Double Matrix Sonic thread. Marks original comments to David were answered by David in post #37 of that thread. David made it clear he needed a repeatable baseline and that he would eventually get down to the level of debris more realistic to what is usual for used record purchases. For whatever reason that answer did not seem to satisfy Mark's curiosity so he returned with additional comments in post #62 which triggered David's response in post #63. I have to assume it was David's response that generated Marks topic in this thread.

I want to suggest that a momentary feather fluffing is no reason to develop a permanent attitude with respect to questions, comments, or responses in threads. We are human beings and occasionally we manage to allow a burr to get under our saddle blanket that irritates us. With respect to Marks comments in David's thread, I fully understand the reaction to an over the top baseline to begin test cleanings. I have stated the same to David myself in person. None the less, I understand what David is attempting to do, in other words take a worse case scenario and see how difficult it will be to successfully return the album to a playable state. Not everyone would select this baseline, nor would anyone else I know purchase four expensive high-end record cleaning machines with their own money just to set up a test like this. It is David's experiment and as such he gets to determine the baseline of filth to clean.

Looking at David's response to Mark in post #63 it is clear that he didn't appreciate having to respond twice to an inquiry he had already addressed and felt the tone was adversarial enough to enlist the type of response he posted. We are passionate people and sometimes our emotions are quickly accelerated. What is easily overlooked here is David's lack of experience in a hobby most of us have been totally immersed in for years, even decades. David readily admits his inexperience and seems to be open to learning. This record cleaning machine experiment is as much a learning experience for him as it will ultimately be for all of us once we have the opportunity to read his full published review. We are all stoked with opinions on what we would do but it is important to remember we aren't doing this experiment. It is David's undertaking at a considerable expense that none of us are likely to ever finance ourselves to satisfy our own curiosity. I am thankful for David's inquisitive nature. I am confident the results will be enlightening.

Is David excited about this project? Absolutely! I believe he is hoping we will find his experiments and the results of his journey equally exciting to discover. Is he looking to be patted on the back? I doubt it. He doesn't need any of us to carry on with his fun. I believe he is simply trying to share it with us. I honestly believe there is nothing here to get bent out of shape about. Would I ever put Kool-Whip, lipstick, or jelly on an album? Heck no but it will be interesting to see how the experiments turn out none the less. I am positive the record cleaning experiments will eventually drill down to the level that most of us are curious about as David stated it would. I see nothing to get wound up about at all. As they say, it will all come out in the wash.