MSB Reference DAC

I also have no interest in the digital vs. vinyl vs. tape discussion. Everyone has their favorites and supporting opinions. I certainly know I do. What interests me more is what steps you’ve taken to optimize the format(s) you’ve chosen. For me, it’s been the optimization of a dedicated computer network that brings it to the point where it is equal to or better sonically than a top transport. Am I there yet? Stay tuned.

Ken
 
Alpinist said:
For me, it’s been the optimization of a dedicated computer network that brings it to the point where it is equal to or better sonically than a top transport. Am I there yet? Stay tuned.

Ken
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I for one will be interested to hear what you did to your network and the improvement that you experience, Ken.
 
I got rid of vinyl in the 80s after getting a CD player. I just got fed up with trying to play one or two good songs on an album. What a PITA.

I am sure the MSB is a great DAC. However, I am in love with the sound of my Lumin S1. So much so I am actually content with my system at this point. :)
 
Alpinist said:
I also have no interest in the digital vs. vinyl vs. tape discussion. Everyone has their favorites and supporting opinions. I certainly know I do. What interests me more is what steps you’ve taken to optimize the format(s) you’ve chosen. For me, it’s been the optimization of a dedicated computer network that brings it to the point where it is equal to or better sonically than a top transport. Am I there yet? Stay tuned.

Ken
Click to expand...

Ken,

Which transports do you consider to be at the top for your comparison?



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Alpinist said:
I also have no interest in the digital vs. vinyl vs. tape discussion. Everyone has their favorites and supporting opinions. I certainly know I do. What interests me more is what steps you’ve taken to optimize the format(s) you’ve chosen. For me, it’s been the optimization of a dedicated computer network that brings it to the point where it is equal to or better sonically than a top transport. Am I there yet? Stay tuned.

Ken
Click to expand...

Ditto. I do have a great digital system, and a great analogue one, and will continue to enjoy both. It does not necessarily have to be red or white, no?

But if someone else prefers to focus on only either one, I do not have any objection to that, and do not feel any hostility against such a choice.

On the network side, I added an EMO network filter, but will still have to gauge the impact, as there now is a short piece of patch cable coming from the router. I will be getting an additional AQ Vodka tomorrow to replace it, so let’s see. What is probably the bigger impact, is setting up a dedicated network for audio, and updating the whole system to gigabit level.


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BlueFox said:
I got rid of vinyl in the 80s after getting a CD player. I just got fed up with trying to play one or two good songs on an album. What a PITA.

I am sure the MSB is a great DAC. However, I am in love with the sound of my Lumin S1. So much so I am actually content with my system at this point. :)
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hint- don't listen to an MSB :)
 
I'm torn about filters. I'm also confused talking about networks when people are talking about a DAC as almost completely immune to anything you feed it with the network card installed. You know, my prior post on an improved source.
I have been told a network isolator like an EMO will degrade my sound as I have a quality purpose designed audio switch with linear PS. My switch made a very apparent sonic improvement. Especially when it came to streaming. There is no down side.$750.

I'm curious about erhernet cables. I tried to start a thread to learn more but it has no traction. I was kind of gleaning, the last cable feeding the network streamer or network card is the biggest bang for buck.
 
I've worked on optimizing what I feed my digital. I have had a top optical isolation system in and it worked great. Lowered the noise floor considerably. Allowed more micro and macro detail and gave it more emotion. It didn't change the sound signature at all. That was a positive as too many devices will do that from my experience.

I upgraded my internet service (I only use Tidal streaming at times and that's the only reason I am ever online with my streamer/server) to get mega fast internet service. I don't think this makes that big a difference if you are over 200 or so, but friends say get the fastest (some of the top guys on Computer Audiophile where I also hang out). I am using the fastest Arris modem and an Eero router system. I run the modem, router and Empirical Audio Syncrho Mesh reclocker off separate LPS units. The Synchro Mesh is a must have device for TV etc... It makes a world of difference. I use the Wireworld optical cable for my TV feed into the SM unit.

I recently purchased 2 1m lengths of Wireworld Platinum 8 ethernet cables and the EMO-70e I believe it is. I noticed that the noise floor was similar to that of the optical isolation. I haven't noticed any degradation of the sound quality at all and I believe I have a pretty resolving system at this point. I noticed a large difference when upgrading to the newest WW cables. I noticed the largest improvement in my digital when upgrading all the cords to the Audioquest Hurricane. I will be getting the Dragon once my DAC is taken out of the server adn into a two box solution. I have a feeling that will be a HUGE improvement as the DAC is already as good as the Brinkmann (to my ears and I've had that unit in the house also). I am expecting it to rival or better my friends DaVinci mk2 from Light Harmonics as well as be up there with the MSB Select I have heard and loved.

Not sure if that helps anyone or not as things that work in my house and in my system. Digital is soooo different in every system.
 
As I had previously posted I was waiting for my local dealer to have a updated Renderer installed in their Reference DAC so I could perform another A/B comparison with my Vivialdi set-up. I picked up the unit yesterday and as you can see from the photo it has found a place where my turntable normally sits. I hope the SME doesn;t take a tumble off the pre-amp. I will keep the unit 'till next Saturday and hope to have a better idea of its strengths and weaknesses.

DSC_1080.JPG
 
still-one said:
As I had previously posted I was waiting for my local dealer to have a updated Renderer installed in their Reference DAC so I could perform another A/B comparison with my Vivialdi set-up. I picked up the unit yesterday and as you can see from the photo it has found a place where my turntable normally sits. I hope the SME doesn;t take a tumble off the pre-amp. I will keep the unit 'till next Saturday and hope to have a better idea of its strengths and weaknesses.

View attachment 25393
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Look forward to your impressions Jim! What a fun time ahead!
 
still-one said:
I have been putting together some thoughts today. I spent the first five day listening to the MSB alone and have spent today A/B'ing with my Vivaldi.
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I'm interested to hear your thoughts too! My Nagra dealer has the DCS stack and my local dealer has MSB.

Dave
 
As I posted above one of my local dealers loaned me their recently updated MSB Reference DAC with a new Renderer card. Between last Saturday and this morning I only listened to the MSB DAC. I am not sure about others but my music memory is good but not great. When I am comparing gear I often makes notes about specific passages to aid in the comparison.

I have found it very important over the years to remove a product after a period to insure that any perceived “improvement” was not solely the result of change. I truly believe that we often confuse a change with better. For some reason any change seems to make us listen closer. After listening to a stable system for a lengthly period our ears/brain mask certain aspects of our gear.

For the first five days I fully enjoyed the MSB Reference DAC in my system. I moved my turntable aside, removed the ethernet cable from my dCS Upsmapler and connected to the back of the unit and Roon almost immediately recognized the unit and configured it automatically. From the first tracks I identified vocals as a strength of the Reference DAC. Vocals seem a bit cleaner without any hit of “sheen” around them.

During those first five days I wasn’t sure if the bass was any tighter or more accurately portrayed as compared to my dCS set-up but I defiantly enjoyed what I was hearing.

Based on my memory I felt that the highs may not have been as accurate or extended as what I was getting from my Vivaldi units.

To summarize the first five day. Day 1. Wow!! This is really good. Day 2. Oops. Where did that initial sound go? Days 3-5. It was constantly enjoyable to listen to the Reference DAC.

This morning I decided it was time to actually A/B the two units. I inserted a switch just in front of the two units and connected each unit via ethernet to the switch. After a few minutes Roon again identified both units as endpoints. I can easily select the endpoint in Roon and direct the output to my pre-amp where I can chose which device I wanted to hear by selecting the proper input via remote.

I have been going back and forth between the two units for over five hours as I start to write this. The more I listen the less I care which one is currently playing. In general I would have to give the edge on vocals to the MSB Reference DAC. On most CD’s it sounds a bit more pleasing to the ear assuming that the dCS is not more accurately conveying what is on the recording. The one area where the dCS vocals are better seems to be on MQA recordings. It is possible that the MQA filters developed by dCS account for this.

I do believe that my Vivaldi might extract a bit more detail on some recordings. Earlier today I was playing “After the Rain” by Melody Gardot. The birds in the background you hear in the first minute are more apparent and defined on the Vivaldi. The Vivaldi also appears to better define highs such as cymbals and brush strokes.

Which unit I prefer for reproduction of snares, kick drums or stand up bass is less clear. I would cal this a toss up with a possible lean towards MSB on some recordings. This is the area where one’s ability to play with dCS MAP’s, filters and Upsampling could impact ones preferences.

ADDENDUM

I have listened to many more tracks since I started this post earlier this afternoon. The more I listen the less I lean towards either set-up. I friend who stopped by today suggested I might want to borrow borrow two pair of common XLR cables so I would have the same on both units for the A/B. The XLR’s on the dCS are “tuned” for that pre-amp dCS connection. I thought I would see what would happen if I put the rather generic XLR I was using on the MSB on the dCS. Well that threw water on some of my earlier thoughts. Now the better bass and low frequency has moved towards the dCS stack.

I am thinking that the better vocals still favor the MSB set-up with the generic XLR’s but I am going to listen a bit more tomorrow with those on the dCS before moving them back to MSB to conform what I am hearing. I am not trusting my music memory at all right now, Data Overload.

More to follow.
 
Well that's just great. No clear-cut winner? Now I have to buy both. One to get that last little edge of cripness on instruments and the other for that last breath of ahh on vocals. This is all getting too expensive.
 
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