Magico S3 mk2

Elberoth said:
The aluminium woofer with a nanotubes/carbonfibre dust cap was first seen in the S5 mk 1, not the S3 mk 1.
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Yes, already aluminum, but still the modified ScanSpeak design, while the S3 had the next gen in-house internal design also used in later models.


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And how do you know where the S3 aluminium woofer was sourced from ? How does it have anything to do with said woofer quality, esp. compared to S5 mk 1 woofer ?
 
Elberoth said:
And how do you know where the S3 aluminium woofer was sourced from ? How does it have anything to do with said woofer quality, esp. compared to S5 mk 1 woofer ?
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Typically reviewers talk to manufacturers and the manufacturers tell them stuff they write about. I read what reviewers write and also talk to manufacturers. That sort of stuff. And in more earnest, that has been stated publicly.

Regarding woofer quality, at least I have not stated anything about woofer quality, ScanSpeak do make very good elements. The question was rather about product generations and technology evolution.

In earlier models (e.g. V3) Magico have also been using the highly regarded ScanSpeak Revelator tweeter and now they make their own.


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Magico does not manufacture their own drive units. They do not have the tooling to manufacture baskets, magnet systems, diaphrams etc. They source their drive units from the renowed drive unit manufacturers, who build them up to their specs. Some of them (say S-series mk 1 tweeter) look almost exactly like the standard versions that those manufacturers offer, and some are customised beyond recognition.

You have posted a comment, that 'S3 introduces aluminum woofer => S7 => S5 mk2.'

That statement is false. The aluminium woofer was first seen in the S5 mk 1. The S3 mk 1 didn't bring anything new to the table as such.
 
Well, they all do have different magnets. S5 mk1 woofer was a ScanSpeak design with the Magico dust cap added. The later ones were more customized, and that was the reference.

It is indeed a good question when an element should be attributed to a certain speaker manufacturer: If it's implemented in a certain brand's speaker, if it consists of an element manufacturers standard components but has some modifications (e.g. the dust cap or motor is different), if it's custom manufactured to a speaker maker's spec? I would guess different people might have varying views on that.

I guess, Magico might themselves not agree with the statement that they do not manufacture their own drive units, with all the marketing about diamond coater beryllium and graphene membranes.
 
FYI: I believe that S5 mk 1 and S3 mk 1 use Scan Speak sourced bass drivers, both with custom dust caps, while S7 uses what looks like Seas sourced bass drivers, with a custom dustcap and custom diaphgram.

Ofc, there may be other design differences, but it is impossible to tell just by looking from the outside.
 
Elberoth said:
...but it is impossible to tell just by looking from the outside.
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Absolutely agree. At least I am not so deep into the subject matter I could tell. I have to rely on what reviewers write or I hear from the manufacturers themselves.

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Kuoppis said:
I guess, Magico might themselves not agree with the statement that they do not manufacture their own drive units, with all the marketing about diamond coater beryllium and graphene membranes.
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There is only ONE berlium dome manufacturer IN THE WORLD - the company called Materion:

https://materion.com/products/beryll...lium-acoustics

They probably let another company diamond coat it. Same with graphene infused diaphgrams.

You really need to learn more about speaker design if you want to engage into discussion at this depth.

Kuoppis said:
The S3 woofers were a new design.
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Define new ? New as a customised design ? All drive units used by Magico, are either customised designs of the existing products or a complete custom designs made for them.

Neither S5, S3 nor S7 use off the shelf drive units. They have been all customised for Magico.
 
So, based on your expert opinion, is the diamond coated beryllium tweeter Magico uses in its recent models a Magico design or is it a Materion design?


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Elberoth said:
There is only ONE berlium dome manufacturer IN THE WORLD - the company called Materion:

They probably let another company diamond coat it. Same with graphene infused diaphgrams.

You really need to learn more about speaker design if you want to engage into discussion at this depth.
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I thought Paradigm was making their own beryllium tweeter and midrange for the Persona. Is this not the case?
 
Kuoppis said:
So, based on your expert opinion, is the diamond coated beryllium tweeter Magico uses in its recent models a Magico design or is it a Materion design?
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I just told you, that Michelin supplies tires to Bugatti Veyron, and you are asking me back, if the Veyron is Bugatti's or Michelin's design :S

Materion is a berylium dome supplier. They are the only company in the world that makes them for everybody - Scan Speak, Focal, Seas, SB Acoustics etc. The dome itself, is just one of many parts that make a berylium tweeter. The expanded view of the Magico tweeter shows just that:

Magico-Tweeter.png


I'm not sure who manufactures the complete tweeter assy for Magico. If I was to guess, I would say it is probably a custom Scan Speak job. It just doesn't make sense (from the financial point of view) to built things like that in house, even though (in theory) many parts can be sourced from the same suppliers that supply Scanspeak (even they don't make everything inhouse; many of the domes, surrounds and suspension setups they use are supplied to them by a German company Dr. Kurt Mueller GMBH for example).
 
Heavy G said:
I thought Paradigm was making their own beryllium tweeter and midrange for the Persona. Is this not the case?
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I'm not sure. You would need to ask Paradigm about this. Personally, I would be surprised if they developed a process to make them inhouse. It just doesn't make sense from the financial point of view. The cost of R+D itself would be enormous from someone who is not deep into metallurgy.

I'm not even sure if those are real berillium drive units (made from berillium foil). Just like TAD (and Yamaha in the NS-1000 and NS-2000 models, made in the 70s/80s), they may have used vaccum deposition process.

I have the Paradigm Persona 5F at home right now - they are nowhere near Magico S5 mk 2 performance wise (and I assume also Magcio S3 mk 2).
 
Kuoppis said:
You are still avoiding the question, a Magico or Materion design?
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Materion developed a process in the early 90s to manufacture berilium domes out of pure berilium foil. They only supply the domes. They have nothing to do with tweeter design, just like Michelin had nothing to do with Bugatti Veyron design (Michelin was only asked to develop and supply a specific tire, that could handle speeds in excess of 400km/h+ in a given size - which is what they did).
 
Elberoth said:
I just told you, that Michelin supplies tires to Bugatti Veyron, and you are asking me back, if the Veyron is Bugatti's or Michelin's design :S

Materion is a berylium dome supplier. They are the only company in the world that makes them for everybody - Scan Speak, Focal, Seas, SB Acoustics etc. The dome itself, is just one of many parts that make a berylium tweeter. The expanded view of the Magico tweeter shows just that:

Magico-Tweeter.png


I'm not sure who manufactures the complete tweeter assy for Magico. If I was to guess, I would say it is probably a custom Scan Speak job. It just doesn't make sense (from the financial point of view) to built things like that in house, even though (in theory) many parts can be sourced from the same suppliers that supply Scanspeak (even they don't make everything inhouse; many of the domes, surrounds and suspension setups they use are supplied to them by a German company Dr. Kurt Mueller GMBH for example).
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When did Focal quit making their own BE tweeter domes? They certainly used to.
 
mep said:
When did Focal quit making their own BE tweeter domes? They certainly used to.
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Sorry to disappoint. They never have manufactured the Be domes themselves. Just like Bugatti (Porsche, Ferrari etc) never manufactured tires themselves.

While there are about four sources for beryllium worldwide, only one operation can provide beryllium foil in useful thickness for speaker diaphragms, and that is Materion Electrofusion INC.
 
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