Jay's Audio Journey

crwilli said:
This exercise asked the question “Which presentation sounds better to you?”. It was not trying to find an absolute reference or a higher meaning.
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The exercise of "which sounds better to you" by definition tries to gauge the performance and separate the two amps into a "winner" and a "loser". That is very much a "higher meaning" but in reality means absolutely nothing since me and you both know better. Two amps that are capable of driving a set of speakers in a particular room can only sound slightly different at best if they are designed to measure well. What that difference may mean to you may not mean anything to me and it is very likely not what the recording engineer heard or intended either and not just due to the amp differences...

So here we are, with two amps, trying to convince each other my choice is the right one, which would be the typical audiophile forum discussion... :rolleyes: But the speaker and room interaction will still typically far outweigh any meaningful differences between a high value/lower cost components vs premium components with the well known rule of diminishing returns.

The youtube comments on comparison videos will also typically be split 50/50 unless there is a clear deficiency with one of the variables.. Because it is a matter of a perceived difference without a reference point.



So here we are having fun with it all. :)
 
TheOctopus said:
The exercise of "which sounds better to you" by definition tries to gauge the performance and separate the two amps into a "winner" and a "loser". That is very much a "higher meaning" but in reality means absolutely nothing since me and you both know better. Two amps that are capable of driving a set of speakers in a particular room can only sound slightly different at best if they are designed to measure well. What that difference may mean to you may not mean anything to me and it is very likely not what the recording engineer heard or intended either and not just due to the amp differences...

So here we are, with two amps, trying to convince each other my choice is the right one, which would be the typical audiophile forum discussion... :rolleyes: But the speaker and room interaction will still typically far outweigh any meaningful differences between a high value/lower cost components vs premium components with the well known rule of diminishing returns.

The youtube comments on comparison videos will also typically be split 50/50 unless there is a clear deficiency with one of the variables.. Because it is a matter of a perceived difference without a reference point.



So here we are having fun with it all. :)
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You make no sense. The room was the same. This had nothing to do with the room. It was comparing 2 amps in the same room. Stay on task like your 6th grade teacher told you.

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TheGemState said:
You make no sense. The room was the same. This had nothing to do with the room. It was comparing 2 amps in the same room. Stay on task like your 6th grade teacher told you.

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He actually makes some very valid and obvious points
 
TheGemState said:
You make no sense. The room was the same. This had nothing to do with the room. It was comparing 2 amps in the same room. Stay on task like your 6th grade teacher told you.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
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Obvious to me you skipped out on most of your 6th grade classes. Go back and reread my post and try to apply some logic but try not to overstrain your brain...

Picking a winner in one room and a set of components means absolutely nothing in the context of another room and a different set of components. In Jays room one can declare a winner due to personal preference. In another room it will be a different result.
 
TheOctopus said:
Obvious to me you skipped out on most of your 6th grade classes. Go back and reread my post and try to apply some logic but try not to overstrain your brain...

Picking a winner in one room and a set of components means absolutely nothing in the context of another room and a different set of components. In Jays room one can declare a winner due to personal preference. In another room it will be a different result.
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Um no. Not all amps are the same. Some are clearly "better". Your point is taken (there is no absolute reference) , but you really need to let it go. The video is not a scientific experiment. Jay's videos are a combination of entertainment and learning about different brands. I appreciate his efforts, even though I don't always agree with his opinions.

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dznutz said:
He actually makes some very valid and obvious points
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His points are valid for a different conversation. Obviously the room is a important part of making a proper sounding system but has nothing to do with Jay's experiment.

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2fastdriving said:
Um no. Not all amps are the same. Some are clearly "better". Your point is taken (there is no absolute reference) , but you really need to let it go. The video is not a scientific experiment. Jay's videos are a combination of entertainment and learning about different brands. I appreciate his efforts, even though I don't always agree with his opinions.

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk
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I never questioned the entertainment value and Jay’s efforts to compare/contrast gear in his room for whatever purpose/end game he has in mind. I’m sure he will attract lots of viewers over time.

We approach this hobby as if everything makes a difference. That seems to hold true for most, even cables… for some.

If everything makes a difference and one component is clearly better that others, one still should keep in mind a system is a sum of its parts together with your room and your own ears. No one can share or possibly agree in absolute terms on your inner experience and reality created in your head by external stimuli.

We tend to describe components as if they stand on their own. So what does an amp or a preamp sound like if they will sound different in different systems and rooms?

Do components have a sound all of their own? No, they do not and it is impossible to isolate them, but to go on pretending like we can, sure seems to be popular.

Synergy is a sum of all the parts that go into a system, including your room and ears. There is no way to get around that concept and reality.
 
The issue i see is that there are way too many " audio gurus" advising on how to build a world class system. Yet, they don't own one? You all haven't seen the YouTubers that preach components they don't even own?
Why would you ask a Toyota owner how good a Ferrari is? Why would you ask a paralegal for legal advice instead of a lawyer?
Why would anyone ask a Pivate First Class how to get promoted to a Sergeant? Why not just ask your Sergeant what you need to do in order to earn a promotion?
This is the only hobby where i have noticed this idiocy.
Too many people with "audio PhD" but yet their own rig hasn't even received a GED in terms of performance.
Ask dealers who you trust as well as those individuals who have a rig better than your own how to make yours better. If that person can't articulate how to do this then find another person or dealer that can.
 
Jay's Audio Lab said:
The issue i see is that there are way too many " audio gurus" advising on how to build a world class system. Yet, they don't own one? You all haven't seen the YouTubers that preach components they don't even own?
Why would you ask a Toyota owner how good a Ferrari is? Why would you ask a paralegal for legal advice instead of a lawyer?
Why would anyone ask a Pivate First Class how to get promoted to a Sergeant? Why not just ask your Sergeant what you need to do in order to earn a promotion?
This is the only hobby where i have noticed this idiocy.
Too many people with "audio PhD" but yet their own rig hasn't even received a GED in terms of performance.
Ask dealers who you trust as well as those individuals who have a rig better than your own how to make yours better. If that person can't articulate how to do this then find another person or dealer that can.
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Also think its the only hobby (that I can think of and participate in) in which there is so much vitriol for the "high-end" products and their respective price points.

This has been always been the case for decades... Still today, people believe cables don't matter, all amps sound the same etc..

Keep up the good work Jay.
 
Jay's Audio Lab said:
The issue i see is that there are way too many " audio gurus" advising on how to build a world class system. Yet, they don't own one? You all haven't seen the YouTubers that preach components they don't even own?
Why would you ask a Toyota owner how good a Ferrari is? Why would you ask a paralegal for legal advice instead of a lawyer?
Why would anyone ask a Pivate First Class how to get promoted to a Sergeant? Why not just ask your Sergeant what you need to do in order to earn a promotion?
This is the only hobby where i have noticed this idiocy.
Too many people with "audio PhD" but yet their own rig hasn't even received a GED in terms of performance.
Ask dealers who you trust as well as those individuals who have a rig better than your own how to make yours better. If that person can't articulate how to do this then find another person or dealer that can.
Click to expand...

Not sure about you Jay but I have owned 5 Ferraris, 12 Porsche, 10 BMWs as well as having built many serious systems and even custom rooms for them. Yet I would not personally advise anyone to buy a performance car or build a world class system.

What is a world class system exactly? Many different answers to that question.

It is all personal preference and enthusiasts know what they want when they get to that level.

Having said that, it's still fun to watch reviews and hear opinions. Every hobby thrives on input of other enthusiasts.
 
If people want to attempt to "cook" gourmet meals when their experience is limited to macaroni and cheese and ramen noodles, that's totally fine but they should know that they are more than likely going to fail at it until they have perfected it. This only comes with trial and error and trying the same recipe many times until they can cook it with their eyes closed. After a while, it becomes quite easy to make this same recipe taste amazing each and every time because you've mastered it. They know exactly how much salt to sprinkle and how much sugar it needs. Hell, they end up having to just eyeball the amounts of each ingredient and they still make it taste amazing.
I am not saying anyone in here is guilty of it at this time, but we can all agree we have been through it.
Nobody can say they haven't F@ked things up ever EVER with their system - 9/10 this is how we all learn.
 
TheOctopus said:
Not sure about you Jay but I have owned 5 Ferraris, 12 Porsche, 10 BMWs as well as having built many serious systems and even custom rooms for them. Yet I would not personally advise anyone to buy a performance car or build a world class system.

What is a world class system exactly? Many different answers to that question.

It is all personal preference and enthusiasts know what they want when they get to that level.

Having said that, it's still fun to watch reviews and hear opinions. Every hobby thrives on input of other enthusiasts.
Click to expand...

You forgot the Audi's
 
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