Esoteric migrating off of AKM Dac chips for flagship D1X?

You completely missed the point of my post. I couldn't care less what he preferred - that's for him to decide and be happy with. The issue I had is that he changed pre, amp, ICs, SCs, PCs and isolation all in the last year. That's basically a whole new system - it's impossible to make any apples to apples determinations with that much change.

Esoteric has always emphasized the lower registers, always have and always will - that's Esoteric's signature. Nothing wrong with liking that but that's a far cry from claiming a "very linear" (not sure what "very" adds - it's either linear or it's not) response.

What difference does it make if he made major changes to his system from the time of his initial evaluation? He still owned both components and after he completed all of his changes, he preferred the K-01Xs over the DA2 in the end. According to George, the K-01Xs benefited more from his changes than the DA2.

I’ve owned three Esoteric players over the last six years and listened to thousands of recordings and in all that time, I’ve never felt the bass was overemphasized. I now own the MSB Select II DAC and the bass response is very close to the Esoteric, just as it was with the Berkeley Reference 2 DAC I owned in between.

Ken
 
Actually he preferred the dCS.

There's nothing wrong with the Esoteric sound, I used to love it (and still don't have any issues with it - a little extra on the low end always sounds nice with piano and the like) but it is what it is. Not sure what to tell you if you're not hearing it.
 
" ...You completely missed the point of my post. I couldn't care less what he preferred - that's for him to decide and be happy with. The issue I had is that he changed pre, amp, ICs, SCs, PCs and isolation all in the last year. That's basically a whole new system - it's impossible to make any apples to apples determinations with that much change.

Esoteric has always emphasized the lower registers, always have and always will - that's Esoteric's signature. Nothing wrong with liking that but that's a far cry from claiming a "very linear" (not sure what "very" adds - it's either linear or it's not) response...."

Well I certainly did not change preamp, power amps, SC or IC within the evaluation of the DACS in question so please get your facts straight before being critical. Factually the Levinson gear has been in place for 10 months now and all IC and SC for 6 months so I think that is more than sufficient time to do a meaningful comparison. And for the last comparison even the power cords didn't change so unless you need a system to be static for years before doing any comparisons I have no idea what you are even talking about.

George
 
Hyper detailed is a nebulous term. If hyper detailed is being used to describe a DAC that when playing a live album allows you to hear hall ambience, crowd murmers, etc. in the context of a holistic musical performance akin to what I hear at a live show, then the DA2 is definitely that in my system. If hyper detailed is being used as a euphemism for tipped up treble, then that's not an accurate description of the DA2 in my experience.

If on the other hand we're talking about warmth, then the DA2 doesn't have that warm mushy record sound (my opinion of record sound of course). The crowd that was raised on records seems to want that sound out of digital. Personally, I can't stand it; if I wanted that sound, I would have bought a record player. That's not to say I want a cool sound, far from it, but the record sound is well beyond the warmth in any live performance I've heard and my hearing has tested as consistently above average (which just means that I'm hearing fine, not that my preference is the end all).

In my view you are generalizing too much. I agree that vinyl can have a warm, mushy sound, but that is not what I hear from top vinyl which, depending on recording and pressing, can have a very incisive, detailed and 'fast' sound. The tonal balance of my system with the (highly resolving) Schiit Yggdrasil DAC, a DAC which has been described to be on the neutral rather than 'warm' side, is pretty comparable with my friends' systems with their vinyl set-ups. On the other hand, I have also heard vinyl sound that is more on the 'analytical' side if you will, so it all depends, really.

And yes, I too use (unamplified) live music as reference.
 
First production P1X/D1X were indicated to ship 4 days ago, have any made their way into dealer showroom yet?

Hong Kong dealer expecting theirs in mid-April.
 
P1X/D1X have now replaced P1/D1 on the current product pages on the Esoteric Japan website.

Interesting to see that the P-02X remote control RC-1315 now ships with P1X (RC-1156 shipped with P1).

http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esoteric/p1xd1x/index.html

Given the full set comprises of 4 boxes, production still inviolves much assembly work, so orders need to be in queue.

Saldy, the D1x looks not to have an input selector on remote and omitted with the dac, forgot to check when i had placed an order..

It would have been nice to be able to switch from usb and xlr for streaming and again from cosx, xlr, eslink when connected to the transport.

I hope the new remote can support this, i must make a separate order for the remote.

It would have been a great addition, rather disappointed yet again.

Any information if the MQA decoding can be made from all input?

I would guess that since the dac can decode MQA discs, the MQA will be a proper implementation and not just decoded in the USB circuit like most other MQA dacs which allow MQA only from USB input.
 
N-01 doesn't have a remote control. I don't see D1X - assuming it does not have remote control input select - as being a big deal.
 
I would have thought it would be very handy to a CD in the transport , streaming via xlr or spdif; USB for hirez all all from your listening position.

Switching between filters will also have been a very thoughful feature.
 
I left it alone on AA as you found a sound you were happy with (Esoteric's whole business model is based on overemphasis of the lower regions) but your comparison was as far from apples to apples as it gets. There were so many variables being mixed that it made my head spin. You don't know what in your system contributed to what part of the sound.

"(Esoteric's whole business model is based on overemphasis of the lower regions) "

I will with respect disagree in earnest with this. Their entire business model is based upon so much more and different things than over-emphasized bass
and that stated, their bass is not over-emphasized at all, IMHO. It's fast, articulate and accurate. I've not had one single Esoteric player that bloats or
over-emphasized the bass. I've owned;

DV-50S
P-0s Transport
UX-1
UX-1 Limited
P-03 Universal /D-03
P-02 / D-02

starting in late 2005 and continuing to this day. In almost 14 years haven't heard over-emphasized/bloated bass out of any Esoteric box.

And I've spent significant listening time (days and weeks not minutes) with;

P-01 / D-01
P1/D1
K1
K-01X
X-01
UX3

What Esoteric equipment have you owned and/or spent significant time with?

Perhaps we agree to disagree :D, however the bass is not over-emphasized/exaggerated at all. That may have been cable choice for
interconnects, digital cables, etc...creeping in to whatever you were hearing.

BTW...your system signature has a great line-up and must sound great! I'll say for the record that if I did not have Esoteric at this point, having heard several
EMM units (and liking them alot) I'd probably have EMM or MSB at this point...

Bar81 EMM Labs TX2|DA2 | Ayre KX-R Twenty | D'Agostino Momentum M400 | Focal Maestro Utopia III | MIT Oracle MA | VH Audio Airsine | Shunyata King Cobra CX | Shunyata Denali 6000/T | Harmonic Resolution Systems | CAD Ground
 
I own P1/N-01 and I describe the bass of that combination as tight, textured, and tonally correct. I also own Krell gear and if anything, that would be over-emphasized in the bass. There is no competition in the comparison between those 2 brands here, the Esoteric walks all over Krell.
 
I found the bass of the Esoteric bass to be tighter, more sound, dynamic and clear sounding with just the right touch of warmth and naturalness than the competion whether higher or lower in its price range, the K01 when 1st introduced in to my system.

Conversely, also the 1st time i heard it was in a tube system which the ownerr was desperately wanting to let go off. It has no bass, sounded thin and that was what steered me away from the brand, yet again afther hearing the cheaper Esoteric playes of the early 2000's.

I resisted despite reading many owners who recommended it in another forum. I went with the DCS pucinni, but until it gave reading problems that the dealer has a k03 which i took in the meantime so i was not left musicless whilst the unit was sent back to England.

The rest was history, k01 was ordered later that night with the DCS traded in.

But i must say, it was overall only rather good, the magic happens only when it is well set up and especially so after adding the clock and great clock cables.

Many who had not much to say, almost always never heard it properly setup, especially with a clock and dismissed Esoteric as not playing in the level of price.

I actually feel that given the pricing, the quality of the transport mechanism alone in the one box offerings leaves the dac section alone in the $10k region. Abosolutely blows any competition as a dac in that its class.

My D1x is soon to arrive to retire my k01x. I use the dac section most and felt time i need an upgrade as my cabling alone over time exceeded the cost of just the player used as a dac.

Apart from that reason, i am more than satified which exceeds all my expectations with the sound quality presently.
 
I will be keeping it, just in case for the most impossible sitution that i might possible i prefer it more than the D1x.

It is only testament how much i look up to just the k01x presently, though i use the dac reclocked and master clocked from a Mutec MC3.1+ from the Aurender .....Just sublime.

I wount be able to use the the reclocker with tye D1x, further power cables and clocking cables will be different to some extent as it will be used via dual Aes.

I have ordered the cables, nordost valhalla 2 pc and Shunyata clock 50 cables along with different isolating feet (currently stillpoints) which will also be a new addition to be introduced together with the D1x.

Ut it may be some time to settle the new dac and relook if i will even require the K01x.

I dont have intention to sell it, except of it is going to sit unconnected or used in the future for a few years.

I have a streamer come ripper, so cds will be via storage. The K01x has no way to replay SACDs to the D1x.

I initially scrapped ever buying into the brand again due to lack of forsight and upgradability in adding their dacs to their 1 box offering via eslink. Either engineers were Incompetent and lacked forsight or deliberately done to force loyal customers to sell off and puchase theit newest offerings.

I k01x since its release some 4 or 5 years, both occassions ordered before the first unit ws even brought in, just as the D1x.

I will not be upgrading for the next few years and will happily keep the k01x for life if the D1x somehow does not fit sonically to my taste and treat the K01x better with more tweaks and accessories.

Anyway, this is my plan and retire myself from this crazy endless chase and of everyone saying band X is better than band Z etc etc etc.....
 
I owned the Esoteric Grandioso K1 Player/DAC and Grandioso G1 Master Clock. They were marvelous sounding components. However, I traded in both the K1 and G1 for the MSB Select II DAC when the G1 was so new that it was barely out of the box. Why did I do this? I guess the first reason was that I preferred the naturalness of the Select II DAC’s sound. But nearly just as big a reason was that I wanted to get off the Esoteric upgrade merry-go-round.

In the last few years I had traded up from the K-01 to K-01X to K1, every time AKM came out with a new DAC chip. When I listened to the K1’s AKM 4497EQ’s DAC chip I felt that I was at the pinnacle of sound quality. But in December 2018, AKM came out with the 4499EQ DAC chip. Soon the Grandioso K1 will no longer be the latest and greatest. But this time I didn’t even flinch. So, if the Grandioso D1X has migrated off AKM and moved to their own ladder DAC, I would consider this a great thing. Because it means the D1X won’t be outdated in a year.

Ken
 
Brodricj,

To understand more, None of their 1 box players, even the k1 or the latest k-xs series has esl hdmi connections. Sorry, Esoteric products range is truly fragmented into distinct ranges currently.

To be fair, the xs uncoporates a toned down xlr ESLink which will allow data above 24/96 to the appropriate dacs. Try hooking that up to a P1 transport. It. cannot work apart from using USB connections, obsoleting all the technological marvels of outputs designed for the P1.

I considered the N01 to play as a dac to my K01x at one point.

No ESLink meaning the Sacd transport would become redundant in my K01x. Ludicrous!!!

The D02x was long in tooth in the dac chip it used.

So, basically Esoteric felt their 1 box players where not up to the standard to deserve linking to their flagship D1 range with a very similar transport mechanism employed in both. Again, pure nonsense.

The D1, never heard it but for that amount of investment, technologically dac chip wise has been left far behind and a replacement was inevitable based on how Esoteric designed their dacs. I am certain it still sounds fantastic.

I was forced to start looking at the Msb dacs, Apart I felt the Select was just too much of a luxury. I like Cavair and champagne, but more often than not, a nice Wagyu burger and beer get me off more often than not.

As such, the price of the Select had just too much premium in it.

I of course would go for the Femto 33, it could be slaved to a front end short of I guess the Msb transport because it requires a signal telling what frequency to output. It doesn't work for streaming with files of different sample rates.

The clock specs is unquestionable, but at 44k and 48k, it it basically a Toyota sedan priced as a Posche. My choice was that I was not falling into this trap.

Esoteric has woken up?

Well, the partial reasons I see in the D1x has been their wakeup call and deserves a chance.

What so good about it?

1. True implementation of Mqa. It states the P1x can play mqa discs and be decoded by the D1x.

If for any reason, they limit is via USB connection to the D1x and not implement it for all the output connecting to dac. To all that read this post, is Esoteric design is a failure it the digital world, and possibly won't be around long to keep up with the changes and I will pony up for the Msb, they then deserve every bit of premium.

2.A discrete dac supporting what, 64bits, meaning software updates and theoretically cannot and will not be outdated even in 5 years time with updates.

Unless, we see cd' or streaming with double the highest resolution then. This will not happen, CD has a limited bandwidth way below the specs in the D1x.

It will be a new era where a new format has been introduced successfully and it is time to change the D1x for a totally new era.

3.The output stage has been fitted with their top preamp output stage.

It can be upgraded easily to whatever significant technology advances then, but again the output stage is highly subjective and more a matter of choice what and how to implement it. There are no real significant advancements in this area for the past 10 years. Its an analogue design anyway.

A new opamp, say a muses 04 will not steer me to an upgrade unless it is a replacement board which can been easily done as the power supplies are more than sufficient to accommodate any upgrades here.

A new chassis made by aluminium adopted from their Atlas transport. That is more marketing hype, I expect at least a titanium chassis to be of a worthy upgrade.

So there what is lacking besides a lack of remote to control the inputs. My legs will easily solve this issue by walking that few meters to push a button, that's fine.

So based on my analysis of this player, Esoteric has stepped up.

Looking at it, they will focus their efforts in ditching AKM chips which is a very welcomed move and focus R&D to slowing trickle down starting with the D02x and finally down the whole range within the next change in product cycle.

The D1x being the initiation of this new direction, deservedly will be taken care of for more than the typical 5 years change in product cycle.

This will end the problem with them implementung a AK4999 in the D1x and when a AK 5000 will has already been developed and priming for production and marketing in the next year or two.

Use this chip for the whatever, k01xs, k1, N1 and D02x replacements in 2 years time? What will one do? Esoteric should rightly dump the prices of the theoretical D1x with the AK4999 below the pricing of the new offering as this is a player which is outdated and personally a disgrace to have it as a flagship using a old chip design.

This will then earn my respect because the top model now is fit for "a due for replacement" note in their website.

Upgrades will want the latest technology.

The only way it that the it can remain a flagship is to market to say, the new dac chips development cannot surpass what we use in the vastly superior sounding dac using yesterday's technology.

Diaclaimer: AKM has outdone themselves with the AK4999 in the pinnacle of dac designs and will raise the prices for this dac chip.

All new offerings made after the AK4999 will be halted and AKM will focus to solely produce the AK4999 for the next 5 years as we have and cannot find any new technically way to improve our flagship chip which surpasses sonically any of our engineers can design.

A big retrenchment in AKM looming?

I guess full merit should still given to modular design dacs. But small pcb board replacements is not that difficult.

Sorry for the long winded thoughts of mine, but I believe their new dac is destined to be keeper for some time to come!

With these points, I have thus placed my renewed faith in the Esoteric products which I have voted with my wallet.

Not so much opinions of whatever products, Money talks, I guess.
 
The FGPA design in the D1X frees them from the limitations of the hardwired DAC chips of yesteryear. The D1X has 2 FPGA in it, one performs the discrete DAC modulating function, the other does all the extraneous stuff like input selecting, DoP decoding, ES-Link decoding, PCM up-converting, PCM to DSD converting etc. They can configure the gates in the FGPA to do whatever they want in any number of ways and I'm sure over time they will improve the code to lower distortion, increase S/N, improve filters and do all those other things to improve sound and function via software update.

As for your previous point about losing SACD capability with the K01X + D1X. Maybe D1X will support ESL-A and you'll be able to spin a SACD in the K01X and have DSD appear in the display of the D1X.
 
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