Esoteric migrating off of AKM Dac chips for flagship D1X?

Hi Andy!

Definitely agree on system synergy and personal taste. I think in a given system any of the dacs mentioned can be incredible. I’m also not too worried about the Dac chip merry-go-round as I think the implementation has a lot to do with ultimate performance. For instance the Dac chips in the k-01xs are much newer than those in the d-02x. That said ... I can say that the d-02x is in another league. On another note ... there has been some back and forth in this thread about passing sacd from any of the Esoteric CD Players to an Esoteric Dac. Unfortunately that isn’t possible. The digital output automatically shuts down when playing an SACD. I’m guessing a licensing decision. Also, the ESLA protocol on the analog outputs are purely analog and designed to connect to an Esoteric preamp or integrated that supports that protocol on its analog inputs. It would have been nice if I could have passed sacd from my K-01xs to my D-02x but sadly that isn’t possible. Should get my P-02x in 3-4 weeks then I’ll sell the k-01xs. Done with digital other than maybe a clock at some point.

George
 
gadawg said:
.. there has been some back and forth in this thread about passing sacd from any of the Esoteric CD Players to an Esoteric Dac. Unfortunately that isn’t possible...
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Explain to me then how I am able to do it? I even posted a photo of it being done. Have a look at it and you might be convinced that it is possible.
 
I think we are talking about two different things. My comments relate to sending a dsd signal OUT of a K-01xs or other player not a transport.
 
Not doubting you can feed a dsd signal into the N-01 that way from a dedicated transport. Just doesn’t work from the players like the K-01xs. Sorry for any confusion.

George
 
P1 > N-01 supports DSD via XLR. It says so in the manual, and it works in practice. The setting to make it work is configured in the P1. My understanding of the K-01Xs manual is ESL-A should carry DSD to an Esoteric DAC that supports ESL-A format. I'm unable to test that however.
 
brodricj said:
P1 > N-01 supports DSD via XLR. It says so in the manual, and it works in practice. The setting to make it work is configured in the P1. My understanding of the K-01Xs manual is ESL-A should carry DSD to an Esoteric DAC that supports ESL-A format. I'm unable to test that however.
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I have the manual as well as the K-01xs right in front of me and it states the digital output shuts off when playing an SACD. I have tested this. The ESL-A on the k-01xs is for analog connectivity to their high end integrated amp. Page 25 discusses the options for the analog output setup not digital. Page 9 discusses ESLA as it relates to this player and the integrated amp. The manual is free to download on Esoterics site. Believe me ... I wish it did do that.

George
 
The digital outputs are disabled for SACD, but the L/R analog XLR outputs are not. Which is why ESL-A gives you SACD connectivity, but with current mode transmission which is mostly immune from cable effects that you would otherwise be prone to with voltage mode transmission.
 
brodricj said:
The digital outputs are disabled for SACD, but the L/R analog XLR outputs are not. Which is why ESL-A gives you SACD connectivity, but with current mode transmission which is mostly immune from cable effects that you would otherwise be prone to with voltage mode transmission.
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Ok ... when you first unpack a K-01xs (I have done this) ... the XLR analog outputs are defaulted from the factory for ESL-A which outputs a high current ANALOG signal not SACD or DSD. I know because when I first hooked up my K-01XS to my Mark Levinson No 52 Reference it worked as in music came out ... just sounded a little off. I did some reading and realized that the ESL-A protocol on the analog outputs only work today with the F1 integrated so then changed it to XLR2 as the analog inputs on my pre are pin 2 hot and it played as normal. The analog outputs on the K-01XS don't ever output a digital signal. The digital output doesn't have different protocols on this unit. Hope I'm being clear. Believe me ... I called Esoteric and discussed this when I bought my D-02X and couldn't believe that a $23k cd player couldn't send DSD out of the unit in any way. They confirmed I would need to swap this unit out to a dedicated transport if I wanted to play SACD through the D-02X. That's why the P-02X is on order.

Info off of the Esoteric website, in this case for the k-03xs but is the same for the k-01xs and is an Analog Protocol not digital in this case ...

ES-LINK Analog" Method for High Quality Current Transmission In addition to regular line connections (XLR and RCA), the K-03Xs features Esoteric's new "ES-LINK Analog" transmission method. This is a current transmission method that utilizes the high performance of the HCLD buffer circuit and its enhanced ability to supply high-speed current. This is the ideal analog audio transmission as it is free from signal route impedance, thus fully maximizing the system's potential when connected to a compatible device.* * A standard balance cable (with an XLR terminal) is used for connections, but the "ES-LINK Analog" method is a proprietary transmission method which can only be used with compatible devices.


Now I move we end this endless debate and let the thread go back to the original purpose of discussing the D1X.

George
 
But you are still getting SACD resolution down the ESL-A pipeline, I don't see that it matters not being a digital connection to the downstream device.
 
brodricj said:
But you are still getting SACD resolution down the ESL-A pipeline, I don't see that it matters not being a digital connection to the downstream device.
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The downstream device CANNOT be a DAC in this case. You cannot feed an analog SACD signal into the digital input of a DAC. It just doesn't work like that. The ONLY thing you can do is connect the XLR Analog outputs to an amplifier or preamp analog input and set the protocol appropriately. So of course you are getting SACD resolution out of the analog output of the cd player ... again that just won't go to a dac.

George
 
So the Esoteric transports can only play sacd's through the eslink - Digital.

Dual AES is not of much use, however, some users report it will transfer and half the actual sampling rate on each xlr and is reported to sound better this way.

Anyone knows?
 
No. As I mentioned before, an Esoteric transport can play SACD via single or dual AES/EBU to an Esoteric DAC. Dual AES/EBU divides the data stream into L and R channels.
 
Yes ... the Esoteric "transports" (P1, P02X) can play SACD via XLR as well as HDMI if so equipped. The Esoteric CD Players (K-01XS, K-03XS) have no ability to pass the SACD out of the digital outputs so SACD cannot be played back via a DAC (D-02X) or the Network player when being played by one of the Players. Hope that helps clear things up.

George
 
A single AES/EBU has enough bandwidth to carry native SACD. It's only when you up-sample in the source that you become bandwidth limited and you need to go to dual AES/EBU. I think a single cable can do 2x up-sampling, for 4x you need dual AES/EBU, for 8x you need ESLINK.
 
I suspect that the SACD digital out restrictions you folks are debating for these players has a lot to do with legal license restrictions associated with the SACD format.
 
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