Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
I ordered one of the LPS's Puma recommended and am looking forward to trying it.
I REALLY wish there were a way to run optical in my house. I'm going to have to wait until the next one for that I think.
Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference
- Thread starter Mechnutt
- Start date
I ordered one of the LPS's Puma recommended and am looking forward to trying it.
I REALLY wish there were a way to run optical in my house. I'm going to have to wait until the next one for that I think.
Puma Cat
Well-known member
Puma Cat
Well-known member
Not sure why you can't run optical in your house? LC/LC fiber is really thin and really easy to dress and run, much easier than Ethernet. It can be run along or on top of wainscoting using little 3M Command Strip plastic cable clips. And it's cheap, I think I spent something like $80 on a 30 M run of Tripp-Lite.
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
I had three different line runners look at my house. I'd want to run it from the upstairs modem/router to the downstairs ethernet plug where my system is. Unfortunately all three said with the curves the current cable path runs from the upstairs to the the downstairs they said they wouldn't touch it.
From the wall jack downstairs to the streamer is about 12'. is it really worth running optic for a 12 foot distance?
Puma Cat
Well-known member
Yes, absolutely. So, just do that, then. The length is not the key factor, the key factor is that the optical cable will not pass the high-source impedance leakage current and the copper Ethernet will. While it's optimal to place the music server away from the main rack, even if you do a run of optical using the TP Link FMCs and the $15 Jameco Reliapro wall-adapter LPS to power them, you will clearly hear an improvement. If you can use something like an OpticalModule Deluxe at the destination end to convert optical back to Ethernet, that will be even better as the OM Deluxe has a significantly better clock in it than the el-cheapo FMCs.
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
Ah! OK. I didn't think it would be worth it for the 12'.
Should I buy any single mode box and cable off Amazon or is there one you like?
Really appreciate you help.
Puma Cat
Well-known member
The length has nothing to do with it, it's the physics that's important. Yep, you can start off using the TP-Link single mode FMCs that use a standard LC/LC SFP cage to get started. Be sure to get the Finisar optical transceiver I linked above and get the Jameco Reliapro wall-wart linear power supplies. IIRC, the TP-link FMCs want a 12V power supply, but check to be sure. The Reliapros are available in a range of voltages. Once you get dialed-in with the optical set-up, you can then look for a switch, e.g. the SOtM sNH-10G I linked to above that has two SFP cages in it, or the OpticalModule to raise things considerably up another level. That's because these audio-quality devices have FPGAs and clocks in them that provide a significant improvement in audio quality, just to name a few of the key components and sub-systems. Until you upgrade these, the two most important devices are the Finisar optical transceiver and the Reliapro power supplies for the FMCs.
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
I'll definitely order the upgraded Jameco PS's. Can you take a look and make sure I read your above email info correctly and chose the correct items?
So would I get 2 of these: https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-Ethernet-Converter-Supporting-MC220L/dp/B003CFATL0/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2GF1D1C6RNDKA&keywords=fiber%2Bethernet%2Bconverter&qid=1669323708&refinements=p_72%3A1248879011%2Cp_85%3A2470955011%2Cp_89%3ACable%2BMatters%7CTP-Link&rnid=2528832011&rps=1&s=electronics&sprefix=fiber%2Bet%2Caps%2C104&sr=1-2&th=1
And two of these (I don't like it's a no-name third party seller: https://www.amazon.com/Finisar-FTLF8519P3BNL-1000BASE-SX-Connector-Transceiver/dp/B00AM2ECU0
Or can I do these to stick with Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-Ethe...399-be24-f6a48ca691ec&pd_rd_i=B003CFATL0&th=1https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-Ethernet-Converter-Supporting-MC220L/dp/B003CFATYW/ref=pd_day0fbt_sccl_2/139-1439987-1018722?pd_rd_w=di10g&content-id=amzn1.sym.225af909-a644-4665-9f15-c780ebd0c7cb&pf_rd_p=225af909-a644-4665-9f15-c780ebd0c7cb&pf_rd_r=CYSZHYFK64XNMW7VX20Z&pd_rd_wg=JfXFV&pd_rd_r=a362b8f0-8a87-4399-be24-f6a48ca691ec&pd_rd_i=B003CFATL0&th=1
And this LC to LC cable: https://www.amazon.com/Fiber-Patch-...24717&sprefix=LC+to+LC+fi,aps,141&sr=8-3&th=1https://www.amazon.com/Fiber-Patch-Cable-Single-Duplex/dp/B00T7ZGJY0/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2IZDFQ6CZ9XSK&keywords=lc%2Bto%2Blc%2Bfiber%2Bpatch%2Bcable&qid=1669324717&sprefix=LC%2Bto%2BLC%2Bfi%2Caps%2C141&sr=8-3&th=1
u-sound
Active member
after all the intense research you did over the last couple of days, you are going to waste your money for senseless crap
mep
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- Dec 4, 2013
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- 5,087
Intense research or asking questions of someone he thinks is a digital guru and going along with the guru's suggestions?
u-sound
Active member
well, the "guru" just skipped thouse items out of his own system
mep
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- Joined
- Dec 4, 2013
- Messages
- 5,087
He did. We are on the same wavelength and it doesn't have high source impedance leakage current riding on it.
Puma Cat
Well-known member
Yep, that's the TP-Link FMC to start with. You can also use the TP-Link optical transceiver you linked to above, but the Finisar one sounds better. You should be able to find the Finisar from other sellers, if don't want to go via an Amazon private party seller. I went that way and didn't have any issues. Either will work, as well as the G-Tek ones.
That LC/LC single-mode fiber should be fine.
For single mode LC-LC fiber, try Corning linked from the bottom of this page here:
LUMIN - Fibre Networking
LUMIN - Fibre Networking
Puma Cat
Well-known member
I skipped those items out for a number of reasons, most of which was the complexity, and most significantly, the ability to reliaby and predictably connect everything together, and always have it work. For example, one of the specific issues I had was with the SOtM network bridge was often losing connection to the SOtM's Eunhasu Server local set-up page.
Also, the EtherREGEN (ER) switch is prone, in my experience, to overheating. I think overheating creates tolerance issues with the dimensions of the SFP cage and the connection some optical transceivers can make with the SFP cage contacts. The streaming network will work and when it works, it sounds really good, but my specific set-up, it was really fussy a lot of the time, and prone to not working if my network couldn't connect to the SOtM Eunhasu server, or the USB cable's A-end came very slightly dislodged from the female USB-A port in the SOtM, or the ER's RJ45 port would lose contact with the Omega Ethernet cable's Telegartner connector (which is really heavy), and last but not least, the optical transceiver in the SFP cage of EtherREGEN was prone to not consistently connecting.
Also, ER runs REALLY hot and I started powering it down when not using it because I was concerned with it ultimately failing (as my UpTone LPS-1.0 did) and also the SFP cage tolerances expanding a bit and losing contact with the optical transceiver. Also, sometimes ER would lose sync with the AfterDark master clock, and I'd have to re-set it, take the clock cable off, re-boot, and then hope ER would sync back up with AfterDark clock. It just all got to be too much.:wacko:
Now I just run an LC/LC optical cable from the remote servier into the back of the Lumin P1 and everything works. EVERY time. It's proven to be consideraby simpler, and as such, more reliable and predictable. And sounds considerably better, too. All told, I was able to remove 15 bits of gear from the "digital set-up" by getting the P1.
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
Thank you for sharing. I appreciate it.
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
Interesting on the EtherREGEN. I hadn't read about the overheating issues and I was looking at them. I do know they are updating the existing version. I wonder if they will be dealing with that issue.
Huge thanks for all your help with this. I had considered it a few months back but then decided against it when I didn't think the shorter distance was going to be worth it when I couldn't run it from upstairs.
I'm looking forward to trying it. It's a super cheap experiment for $150 and then I know for sure if it works or doesn't work for me in my set up. If it doesn't work out, oh well it was a fun experiment. If it does then it sounds like a really cheap win for only $150.
Oh, and I went with the Finisar.
Thanks again!
Puma Cat
Well-known member
Don't get me wrong about ER. I think it represented a breakthrough product when it debuted and it really demonstrated the importance of the Ethernet switch for music streaming application in high-end audio, especially when considering the absolute crap "generic" switches that were available from the LAN networking industry at the time of it's debut. The functional requirements for a switch sending a PDF file to a laser printer for printing a hard copy of a document are very, very different than sending a high-res music file from a music server to a network bridge or audio streamer. Back when ER launched, some folks posed questions about how hot it was getting and the reply was "It's fine, don't worry about it."
And for the most part, that was true. But, as someone who worked as a DFSS Master Black Belt (MBB) for >10 years, I can tell you there are two key Dimensions of Quality that are NEVER discussed by product reviewers and almost always not considered by product developers. Particularly in high-end audio. These dimensions of quality are not features nor functions, and therefore, they are not "sexy", so they NEVER get discussed by audio reviewers, but they are very important in the REAL WORLD, where we all....actually live (not the pages of an audio review).
These Dimensions of Quality are referred to in Six Sigma and Design for Six Sigma (DFSS) as Design for X*, where X is the "-ilities", and in this case, two of the X's are: 1) Reliability and 2) Durability.
In my experience, and in the experience of most all other customers, ER worked very well, especially when new. But after years and years of hard use, with ER being left powered on 24/7 for years, in my experience, it's possible for ER to suffer from from reliability failure modes† that may compromise it's overall useful product life, aka, it's durability. My hypothesis is that the very sophisticated components, e.g. the FPGA, and/or the Crystek CCHD-575 clock, or other components, may fail from ER running so hot for so long. Part of the basis for this hypothesis is I have owned two other UpTone products, the LPS-1.0 and LPS-1.2 linear power supplies, purchased in 2016 and 2019 respectively, that also run really hot and...both of them have failed. So, of the 3 UpTone products I've bought, 2 of them are dead, and because of the chip shortage, they cannot be repaired. They've also been discontinued from production for the same reasons.
As a result, the last month or so, when I wasn't using the system, I resorted to unplugging the ER from it's pwer supply so it would not be so hot, all the time. I would plug it in when listening, and unplug it when the system was off.
The only reason I've been able to use my original Sonore OpticalModule in the remote server room is I bought a third UpTone LPS-1.0 LPS from a friend. I think the reason it has not failed is that the OM only needs 5V, not the 9V that ER needed. Running at almost half the voltage, the OpticalModule does not run as hot, and as a result is more durable. In my opinion, UpTone broke new ground with the development these products, but in my experience, they may have an MTBF of 3-5 years.
*-some of the other Dimensions of Quality in Design for X are: Serviceability, Repairability, and (Parts) Availability. These quality attributes never get mentioned in product reviews because they are not not sexy and not glamorous. But they are very important in the REAL WORLD. Imagine buying a car with no spare parts availability. Or, a car that cannot be repaired.
†-a failure mode is anything that can go wrong. It is the basis for performing the Failure Modes and Effects Analysis, FMEA, and was developed by NASA during the Space Program in the 1960s.
Puma Cat
Well-known member
Thanks, Peter, I will look into it. Cheers.
For me, no. I returned the ER to the dealer and reverted back to using a Pakedge SE-5-EP switch. The Pakedge was way better, and a fraction of the price of ER with 10Mhz clock option.