Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

[brodricj]

...YOU NEED EXCELLENT CLOCKS...

So true. In digital audio the 1's and 0's are only half the story. Timing is the other half. The quality of the clock and the clock cables are critical.

With the ER I had it clocked to an Esoteric master clock generator, connected with a Shunyata Sigma clock cable. The clock cable alone was more than twice the price of the ER box itself. The ER box got very hot. Yet that ER supplied with impeccable Esoteric/Shunyata timing was no competition against the entry level POE powered Pakedge switch. The 1's and the 0's were the same, the Pakedge did not have the advantage of Esoteric timing, yet it sounded better. So there is something else at play here, more than the 1's and 0's and the timing.

 

[u-sound]

yes surprising the esoteric clock didnt make the ER flying

 

[u-sound]

It's accurate that digital is prone to the influence of many different noise factors, some, but not all of which, are vibration, cables, power, etc.

I don't agree about fiber, but whatever floats your boat. Lest we forget, this is just a hobby we do for fun. In my case, my set-up was complicated and fussy, and I made it...simpler.

Simple as that.

:audiophile:

easy possible i change my mind about fiber one day. after all, it is all quite new to us

 

[Michaels HiFi]

the problem, whatever brand, the bundle is expensive. if it is out of budget, better skip it and play files.

maybe the best switch today is the nordost. i havent heard it as it wasnt available then.
the other good ones are well known, gold note, melco, innuos. some used them in combination.

i went with 2 innuos in series, both with a set of wilson pedestal, shunyata omega ethernet and delta2 powercords. doesnt mean at all that this is the way to go.
however, the pedestals are paramount.

Thank you.

 

[u-sound]

thx you too for all your activity. you are revitalising audioshark

 

[Puma Cat]

For single mode LC-LC fiber, try Corning linked from the bottom of this page here:
LUMIN - Fibre Networking

Hi Peter,
I was able to find LC-LC single-mode 9/125um Corning duplex fiber from LanShack. 30M is only $38. I'm going to order some. Thank you for the recommendation.

 

[Alpinist]

There are many excellent Ethernet cables on the market. The Ethernet cable you prefer is highly subjective and system dependent. Ask five audiophiles what their favorite Ethernet cable is and you’re likely to get five different answers. One prominent member on this forum, who has auditioned many different makes and models, prefers a certain cable that I own an entire loom of and really don’t care for that much. Try to audition as many different cables as you can and take advantage of loaner programs. Some Ethernet cables employ noise reduction components. If your network has noise issues, these cables will offer significant improvement. If you’ve already tackled your network noise issues, perhaps not so much. Happy hunting!

Ken

 

[Michaels HiFi]

There are many excellent Ethernet cables on the market. The Ethernet cable you prefer is highly subjective and system dependent. Ask five audiophiles what their favorite Ethernet cable is and you’re likely to get five different answers. One prominent member on this forum, who has auditioned many different makes and models, prefers a certain cable that I own an entire loom of and really don’t care for that much. Try to audition as many different cables as you can and take advantage of loaner programs. Some Ethernet cables employ noise reduction components. If your network has noise issues, these cables will offer significant improvement. If you’ve already tackled your network noise issues, perhaps not so much. Happy hunting!

Ken

Hey Ken - truer words have never been spoken!

I love how we all hear gear, speakers and especially cables differently. Finding the right mix for us individually it what I think makes this so much fun!

I think sometimes I enjoy the search more than the destination when it comes to gear hunting.

 

[JCS123]

Yes - thank you. I've been looking at that. I have a cable and filter of theirs on order to try first long with several other ethernet cables.

My plan is to compare my Netgear vs TP link switch as-is now and see if there is a sound difference between those two.

Then I will introduce the upgraded $15 PS you suggested I ordered on each and see how that is.

Then I will try the fiber set up.

Then I will consider the SOtm. But to be honest in the interest of not getting too complicated, I would probably skip dealing with external clocks and such.

I will also try plugging the switches into a wall and an older AudioQuest power condition that is now sidelined since it was replaced by the AQ 1200 I got from Mike recently.

Michael, I will be watching for your impressions - especially when you add fiber in like Puma suggested.

If I end up going the fiber route, I'll probably also try (once I have everything up and running and can assess the sound improvement) removing the preamp and going straight from the T2 to the power amps and using the Leedh volume control.

The only issue there is that I also listen to CD's once in a while, so the preamp is most convenient.

My Wadia 830 can be hooked up directly to the amps, but it would be a hassle going behind the rack to swap cables every time I wanted to play a CD. I guess I have to decide whether that is an inconvenience that I can put up with for the 5% or so of the time that I spend playing CD's.

Fascinating thread!

 

[jmusica]

The only issue there is that I also listen to CD's once in a while, so the preamp is most convenient.

My Wadia 830 can be hooked up directly to the amps, but it would be a hassle going behind the rack to swap cables every time I wanted to play a CD. I guess I have to decide whether that is an inconvenience that I can put up with for the 5% or so of the time that I spend playing CD's.

Fascinating thread!

Why not just rip the CDs? Hard to imagine the sound of a spinning disc will be different/better enough to warrant going through that extra trouble. And, you could sell the Wadia.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

Why not just rip the CDs? Hard to imagine the sound of a spinning disc will be different/better enough to warrant going through that extra trouble. And, you could sell the Wadia.

I was going to add something similar - that at some point I reach a line where I know something may sound a bit better, but if the inconvenience is too great I go with the easier path.

I will say I tried an experiment recently with my new Rose 150B:

I ripped songs to the external Samsung (Rose recommended one) HD attached to the Rose using an Apple CD ripper;
I did the same except with the Rose branded CD ripper/player ripping to the external HD;
I played the songs through the CD player on the external Rose CD ripper/player.

My biggest surprise? The songs actually sounded better when ripped via the Rose cd ripper than with the Apple!

Playing it through the CD player on the Rose sounded the best, but ripped via Rose ripper was still very good and the difference was more noticeable on some music than other.

I actually just ordered the same Samsung HD as the external one I plugged into the Rose except an internal one to add into the internal HD bay on the Rose. I'm going to see if there is a difference in sound between the Samsung external HD playing ripped music ripped via the Rose vs same songs ripped via Rose onto the internal Samsung HD.

 

[JCS123]

Why not just rip the CDs? Hard to imagine the sound of a spinning disc will be different/better enough to warrant going through that extra trouble. And, you could sell the Wadia.

Good points, but I don't have a server or storage component in the chain. If I go that route in the future, it'll most likely be the LUMIN L1.

 

[jmusica]

Good points, but I don't have a server or storage component in the chain. If I go that route in the future, it'll most likely be the LUMIN L1.

Have you compared playing a CD to streaming (same album on Qobuz, etc)? Maybe that’s close enough to simplify things. I find Qobuz close, the same, or better (than ripped CDs) depending on the album (and probably the CD I ripped from).

 

[JCS123]

Have you compared playing a CD to streaming (same album on Qobuz, etc)? Maybe that’s close enough to simplify things. I find Qobuz close, the same, or better (than ripped CDs) depending on the album (and probably the CD I ripped from).

It seems like the CD might sound slightly better, but that could be a simple matter of the Wadia imparting some character of its own. I remember doing this comparison a year or two ago, with Los Lobos Kiko - 16/44 on both Qobuz and disc.

I will say that overall, the sound of Qobuz played through the LUMIN T2 is extremely satisfying - and so much more convenient, to boot.

 

[Puma Cat]

It seems like the CD might sound slightly better, but that could be a simple matter of the Wadia imparting some character of its own. I remember doing this comparison a year or two ago, with Los Lobos Kiko - 16/44 on both Qobuz and disc.

I will say that overall, the sound of Qobuz played through the LUMIN T2 is extremely satisfying - and so much more convenient, to boot.

That's because of your Lumin T2 I would think. I'm finding that "descriptors" traditionally used for "audio gear" don't really apply with Lumin; rather descriptors for fine musical instruments or musical artists (e.g. Patricia Barber's incredible voice) are more accurate and informative of the experience they convey. Think of using "audiophile jargon" to describe the sound of a Bosendörfer Grand or a Guarneri violin. It just doesn't "get you there" in terms of describing the experience. "Extremely satisfying" is certainly one of them of them, though.

 

[Puma Cat]

I was going to add something similar - that at some point I reach a line where I know something may sound a bit better, but if the inconvenience is too great I go with the easier path.

I will say I tried an experiment recently with my new Rose 150B:

I ripped songs to the external Samsung (Rose recommended one) HD attached to the Rose using an Apple CD ripper;
I did the same except with the Rose branded CD ripper/player ripping to the external HD;
I played the songs through the CD player on the external Rose CD ripper/player.

My biggest surprise? The songs actually sounded better when ripped via the Rose cd ripper than with the Apple!

Playing it through the CD player on the Rose sounded the best, but ripped via Rose ripper was still very good and the difference was more noticeable on some music than other.

I actually just ordered the same Samsung HD as the external one I plugged into the Rose except an internal one to add into the internal HD bay on the Rose. I'm going to see if there is a difference in sound between the Samsung external HD playing ripped music ripped via the Rose vs same songs ripped via Rose onto the internal Samsung HD.

For ripping CDs on the Mac platform, I'd recommend using the free app, XLD. I've found it produces rips that sound the best. Under the CD rip tab, use the XLD Secure configuration with AccurateRIP turned on. You can use any CD drive to rip using XLD, just configure the app to the path to the CD drive, e.g., an internal or an external drive you want to use.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

OK guys - got some additional products/brands on order from what I mentioned above. Hope to have received it all, get some burn in done before listening and have some updates by next weekend!

 

[brodricj]

Why not just rip the CDs? Hard to imagine the sound of a spinning disc will be different/better enough to warrant going through that extra trouble..

The spinning disc sounds better than the ripped CD. Not by much, but it is better. Performance/cost is always a trade-off. In my case I opted for the Esoteric Grandioso disc spinner with master clock generator. A $60K+ investment to spin a CD might be a little bit silly to go a little bit better. Or you might be happy to pocket the money and end up with something not quite as good. Never-the-less, still a thoroughly enjoyable listening experience with an optimized network audio system.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

The spinning disc sounds better than the ripped CD. Not by much, but it is better.

This has been my experience also. It is also more noticeable on some types of music than other (on my system).

I'm excited to see of my experimenting with ethernet audio can help minimize that gap. My framework will be to add a bit of gear, but not too much gear and to not have a limitless budget on it.

 

[brodricj]

I'm excited to see of my experimenting with ethernet audio can help minimize that gap. My framework will be to add a bit of gear, but not too much gear and to not have a limitless budget on it.

With ethernet audio the best of the best hardware is only going to cost you a third of what the best of the best CD spinner costs.
What's the most expensive network transport? Maybe $15K?
The most expensive LAN cable? Maybe $3K?
The most expensive network switch? perhaps $3K?
What else in the network audio hardware mix can you throw in there to squeak the nth degree of performance?
That's only $21K all up.
And how much is an Esoteric P1X, $50K??
That $21K network setup is going to get you close to P1X performance.