Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference

[Michaels HiFi]

I’ll suggest a variation on Mike’s recommendation. A short, decent ethernet cable from router to a fiber transceiver, fiber cable to a transceiver near your Lumin, then a short very good ethernet cable from the transceiver to Lumin.

Router > .5 or 1m ethernet > fiber transceiver > fiber cable > 2nd fiber transceiver > .5 or 1m ethernet > Lumin

Alternatively you could buy an ethernet switch with a port for a fiber transceiver, then run fiber from there to near your Lumin then ethernet into your Lumin.

I wanted to do this and I agree it looks like a great option. However I had 3 people look at my house and with all the 90 degree bends the in-wall cable would need to do they all said it was going to be a big hassle to do.

 

[JCS123]

I’ll suggest a variation on Mike’s recommendation. A short, decent ethernet cable from router to a fiber transceiver, fiber cable to a transceiver near your Lumin, then a short very good ethernet cable from the transceiver to Lumin.

Router > .5 or 1m ethernet > fiber transceiver > fiber cable > 2nd fiber transceiver > .5 or 1m ethernet > Lumin

Alternatively you could buy an ethernet switch with a port for a fiber transceiver, then run fiber from there to near your Lumin then ethernet into your Lumin.

Now we're getting into some REAL unfamiliar territory.

There's no getting around the length of cable needed from router to switch (or directly to the LUMIN for that matter). If I put holes in the wall to go directly from computer room to audio room (switch or LUMIN), I'm looking at a minimum of 8'.

So my question: Will I get appreciably better sound with Router -> Ethernet switch with port -> Ethernet cable -> Fiber transceiver #1 -> Fiber cable -> Fiber transceiver #2 - Ethernet cable -> LUMIN than I would with Ethernet all the way, with one switch in the chain? (I have other electronics in the main room fed by Ethernet, thus the need for the switch.) And am I reading correctly that the fiber cable would be the longer run (8 or 9 feet) in the chain?

Looking very briefly, it appears that fiber cables can be had pretty cheap, and transceivers vary quite a bit in price. I can get a 3.0 M Starlight 8 from Mike for $330 and be done with it, or I can think about an ethernet switch with port for fiber, 2 transceivers, fiber cable and an additional short Ethernet cable. Just wondering if the sound would be noticeably better than Starlight 8 from router to LUMIN with the one unmanaged switch in the chain. (This is coming from someone with less than a minute's experience with fiber in a system, and that was a few years ago.)

Any guidelines on checking out transceivers, a switch with fiber port, fiber cable and ethernet cable? And would that route noticeably outperform the Ethernet set-up and be in the same ballpark price-wise ($330 outlay for the Ethernet scenario from where I'm at today)?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

Now we're getting into some REAL unfamiliar territory.

There's no getting around the length of cable needed from router to switch (or directly to the LUMIN for that matter). If I put holes in the wall to go directly from computer room to audio room (switch or LUMIN), I'm looking at a minimum of 8'.

So my question: Will I get appreciably better sound with Router -> Ethernet switch with port -> Ethernet cable -> Fiber transceiver #1 -> Fiber cable -> Fiber transceiver #2 - Ethernet cable -> LUMIN than I would with Ethernet all the way, with one switch in the chain? (I have other electronics in the main room fed by Ethernet, thus the need for the switch.) And am I reading correctly that the fiber cable would be the longer run (8 or 9 feet) in the chain?

Looking very briefly, it appears that fiber cables can be had pretty cheap, and transceivers vary quite a bit in price. I can get a 3.0 M Starlight 8 from Mike for $330 and be done with it, or I can think about an ethernet switch with port for fiber, 2 transceivers, fiber cable and an additional short Ethernet cable. Just wondering if the sound would be noticeably better than Starlight 8 from router to LUMIN with the one unmanaged switch in the chain. (This is coming from someone with less than a minute's experience with fiber in a system, and that was a few years ago.)

Any guidelines on checking out transceivers, a switch with fiber port, fiber cable and ethernet cable? And would that route noticeably outperform the Ethernet set-up and be in the same ballpark price-wise ($330 outlay for the Ethernet scenario from where I'm at today)?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

When going through this recently myself and not understanding the difference between multimode and single mode and which cable spec, I found this helpful:

Single Mode vs Multimode Fiber Cable Guide | FS Community

 

[ADCO]

Just as a matter of input

I use both AQ Diamonds and Shunyata Sigmas in my system .

They all sound different

That said, I also use optical isolation . I have two Ediscreation Fibre Box II’s. These are a one box solution with optical isolation , a linear power supply and a very good clock.

I’m my case the system looks like this

Router >
Wireworld starlight ethernet 15meters >
Ediscreation Fibre Box II >
AQ Diamond ethernet 2 metres >
Ediscreation Silent switch >
AQ Diamond Ethernet 2 meters >
Innuos Zenith MII >
AQ Diamond .75 metre >
Ediscreation Fibre Box II >
Shunyata Sigma ethernet 2 metres >
Auralic Aries G2.1/Vega G2.1

Point being all this stuff has contributed to the overall sonics , my streaming is now as good as red book off the Innuos . Is any one piece some revelatory masterpiece? No not at all , but it all incrementally improves . The Ediscreation Fibre Box optical isolation is the significant improvement here. I literally would not run the system without them

My two cents

 

[Puma Cat]

Now we're getting into some REAL unfamiliar territory.

I've explored this territory thoroughly, in-depth and detail in 2019.

So my question: Will I get appreciably better sound with Router -> Ethernet switch with port -> Ethernet cable -> Fiber transceiver #1 -> Fiber cable -> Fiber transceiver #2 - Ethernet cable -> LUMIN than I would with Ethernet all the way, with one switch in the chain?

YES.

Would you like 1) the brief reason why or 2*) the "MSc. engineering graduate student-level" reason why?

'Cause I can provide both. Just let me know. Cheers.

*-No. 2 will involve reading highly technical white papers on things like low-and high-source impedance leakage current, threshold jitter, and phase noise...

 

[Puma Cat]

When going through this recently myself and not understanding the difference between multimode and single mode and which cable spec, I found this helpful:

Single Mode vs Multimode Fiber Cable Guide | FS Community

You don't need multi-mode for home audio applications. I've been using a single-mode LC/LC optical-fiber set-up for over 3 years now....I can tell you guys exactly how to do this effectively.

 

[Puma Cat]

I’ll suggest a variation on Mike’s recommendation. A short, decent ethernet cable from router to a fiber transceiver, fiber cable to a transceiver near your Lumin, then a short very good ethernet cable from the transceiver to Lumin.

Router > .5 or 1m ethernet > fiber transceiver > fiber cable > 2nd fiber transceiver > .5 or 1m ethernet > Lumin

Alternatively you could buy an ethernet switch with a port for a fiber transceiver, then run fiber from there to near your Lumin then ethernet into your Lumin.

That's close, J, but it's very important the Ethernet cables to be a minimum of 1.5M in length, not shorter than that. Even if the actual run is shorter than that. This is to minimize the impact of reflections on the cable that cause timing errors. Read this post, #98 on this thread for the background on this:
Shunyata Launches - ALTAIRA GROUNDING SYSTEM!!

You can also read this post, #100, for additional theoretical background, if you like.
Shunyata Launches - ALTAIRA GROUNDING SYSTEM!!

 

[Puma Cat]

Certainly good advice. I've read a lot of current threads/posts that still love the Diamonds.

Thankfully no final decisions are even being close to being made at this point.

I did a comprehensive, professional-level competitive benchmarking (I used to do this kind of work professionally) on Ethernet cables back in 2019 when I was implementing my Ethernet/optical streaming set-up. This competitive benchmarking included renting in several models from various manufacturers, and purchasing others. Ethernet cable models included Wireworld Starlight Cat 8, Belden Cat 6, Supra Cat 8, Audioquest Cinnamon, Vodka, and Diamond, and Shunyata Venom, Alpha, and Sigma Ethernet cables.

Bottom-line from my analysis: Even the "entry-level" Shunyata Venom Ethernet flat smoked all of the other brands' Ethernet cables. I remember one night when I swapped out an AQ Vodka cable for the Venom and the Venom was so superior that I literally laughed out loud. And, don't get me wrong, the AQ Vodka is a good-sounding Ethernet cable. But, it's simply not in the same league as the Venom.

And that cable has now been surpassed by the new Venom-X Ethernet cable. And above that, Alpha and Sigma Ethernet cables are on another level altogether. The Alpha Ethernet has a single "Common-mode noise"* (aka CMode) in-line filter and the Sigma Ethernet cable has two CMode noise filters. These CMode filters bring a considerable improvement to the performance of Ethernet cables and virtually none of the other manufacturers use a CMode filter on their Ethernet cables.

I remember one night when my audio buddy Gregory was over, and I was doing the Ethernet cable comparison demo for him, and I swapped out an AQ (Diamond, IIRC...) cable for the Shunyata Alpha, and he blurted out, "Who took the kink out of the hose?!?" :lol:

Then, there's the Omega Ethernet cable with two Hybrid CMode/TAP devices...

My recommendations:
If you want the least expensive, good-sounding Ethernet cable, get the Supra Cat 8. If you want a superb-performing and sounding Ethernet cable for a great price, I would recommend Shunyata Venom-X as a starting point. If you can afford AQ Diamond Ethernet for $2K/1.5M, trust me on this, get the Shunyata Sigma instead, same length for the same price. it's not even close. I did a LOT of work researching this topic first-hand when I set up my remote-server-based streaming set-up.

Also, see my post above to JMusica, if you're going to buy an audio quality Ethernet cable, the length of the Ethernet cable, regardless of which brand you go with, should be no shorter than 1.5M.

*–Ref for common-mode noise: https://www.murata.com/~/media/webrenewal/products/emc/emifil/knowhow/26to30.ashx

 

[Puma Cat]

For bulk cables, it's easy just stick with Belden (they are responsible for many of the engineering advances).

Supra Cat 8 is better "bulk cable" for audio streaming. Sounds better. Belden is really bright and fatiguing...

 

[JCS123]

I've explored this territory thoroughly, in-depth and detail in 2019.



YES.

Would you like 1) the brief reason why or 2*) the "MSc. engineering graduate student-level" reason why?

'Cause I can provide both. Just let me know. Cheers.

*-No. 2 will involve reading highly technical white papers on things like low-and high-source impedance leakage current, threshold jitter, and phase noise...

I choose Door #1. Not really looking for all of the technical data, more for guidance from anyone who has replaced an all-ethernet chain from router to network player (in m y case the LUMIN T2) with the above set-up, how much of an investment it would be, would it be a noticeable improvement in sound quality, and would the improvement in SQ be worth the investment. Yes - opinions are subjective, but that's what I visit the forums for. Guidance from people with experience to help me decide what to audition, no more no less.

Frankly, I am not in the market for any of the expensive cables, some of which would cost more than my components. It will be a stretch getting two short ethernet cables of good quality for both ends of the chain.

Any recommendations for a good optical transceiver?

Thanks already for your help.

 

[mep]

I did a comprehensive, professional-level competitive benchmarking (I used to do this kind of work professionally) on Ethernet cables back in 2019 when I was implementing my Ethernet/optical streaming set-up. This competitive benchmarking included renting in several models from various manufacturers, and purchasing others. Ethernet cable models included Wireworld Starlight Cat 8, Belden Cat 6, Supra Cat 8, Audioquest Cinnamon, Vodka, and Diamond, and Shunyata Venom, Alpha, and Sigma Ethernet cables.

Bottom-line from my analysis: Even the "entry-level" Shunyata Venom Ethernet flat smoked all of the other brands' Ethernet cables. I remember one night when I swapped out an AQ Vodka cable for the Venom and the Venom was so superior that I literally laughed out loud. And, don't get me wrong, the AQ Vodka is a good-sounding Ethernet cable. But, it's simply not in the same league as the Venom.

And that cable has now been surpassed by the new Venom-X Ethernet cable. And above that, Alpha and Sigma Ethernet cables are on another level altogether. The Alpha Ethernet has a single "Common-mode noise"* (aka CMode) in-line filter and the Sigma Ethernet cable has two CMode noise filters. These CMode filters bring a considerable improvement to the performance of Ethernet cables and virtually none of the other manufacturers use a CMode filter on their Ethernet cables.

I remember one night when my audio buddy Gregory was over, and I was doing the Ethernet cable comparison demo for him, and I swapped out an AQ (Diamond, IIRC...) cable for the Shunyata Alpha, and he blurted out, "Who took the kink out of the hose?!?" :lol:

Then, there's the Omega Ethernet cable with two Hybrid CMode/TAP devices...

My recommendations:
If you want the least expensive, good-sounding Ethernet cable, get the Supra Cat 8. If you want a superb-performing and sounding Ethernet cable for a great price, I would recommend Shunyata Venom-X as a starting point. If you can afford AQ Diamond Ethernet for $2K/1.5M, trust me on this, get the Shunyata Sigma instead, same length for the same price. it's not even close. I did a LOT of work researching this topic first-hand when I set up my remote-server-based streaming set-up.

Also, see my post above to JMusica, if you're going to buy an audio quality Ethernet cable, the length of the Ethernet cable, regardless of which brand you go with, should be no shorter than 1.5M.

*–Ref for common-mode noise: https://www.murata.com/~/media/webrenewal/products/emc/emifil/knowhow/26to30.ashx

Please explain how "competitive benchmarking" which is a business strategy is applicable to you using your ears with your stereo system to identify what ethernet cables you think sound best in your system. How do you account for your supreme bias towards all things Shunyata in your "competitive benchmarking" when ranking your choice of cables? What KPIs did you use during your "competitive benchmarking"?

 

[Michaels HiFi]

I did a comprehensive, professional-level competitive benchmarking (I used to do this kind of work professionally) on Ethernet cables back in 2019 when I was implementing my Ethernet/optical streaming set-up. This competitive benchmarking included renting in several models from various manufacturers, and purchasing others. Ethernet cable models included Wireworld Starlight Cat 8, Belden Cat 6, Supra Cat 8, Audioquest Cinnamon, Vodka, and Diamond, and Shunyata Venom, Alpha, and Sigma Ethernet cables.

Bottom-line from my analysis: Even the "entry-level" Shunyata Venom Ethernet flat smoked all of the other brands' Ethernet cables. I remember one night when I swapped out an AQ Vodka cable for the Venom and the Venom was so superior that I literally laughed out loud. And, don't get me wrong, the AQ Vodka is a good-sounding Ethernet cable. But, it's simply not in the same league as the Venom.

And that cable has now been surpassed by the new Venom-X Ethernet cable. And above that, Alpha and Sigma Ethernet cables are on another level altogether. The Alpha Ethernet has a single "Common-mode noise"* (aka CMode) in-line filter and the Sigma Ethernet cable has two CMode noise filters. These CMode filters bring a considerable improvement to the performance of Ethernet cables and virtually none of the other manufacturers use a CMode filter on their Ethernet cables.

I remember one night when my audio buddy Gregory was over, and I was doing the Ethernet cable comparison demo for him, and I swapped out an AQ (Diamond, IIRC...) cable for the Shunyata Alpha, and he blurted out, "Who took the kink out of the hose?!?" :lol:

Then, there's the Omega Ethernet cable with two Hybrid CMode/TAP devices...

My recommendations:
If you want the least expensive, good-sounding Ethernet cable, get the Supra Cat 8. If you want a superb-performing and sounding Ethernet cable for a great price, I would recommend Shunyata Venom-X as a starting point. If you can afford AQ Diamond Ethernet for $2K/1.5M, trust me on this, get the Shunyata Sigma instead, same length for the same price. it's not even close. I did a LOT of work researching this topic first-hand when I set up my remote-server-based streaming set-up.

Also, see my post above to JMusica, if you're going to buy an audio quality Ethernet cable, the length of the Ethernet cable, regardless of which brand you go with, should be no shorter than 1.5M.

*–Ref for common-mode noise: https://www.murata.com/~/media/webrenewal/products/emc/emifil/knowhow/26to30.ashx

Thank you for sharing your experience and results. Greatly appreciated!

I do have a Supra 8 on order not because I think it's going to be my favorite cable ever, but because I do have several different ones at different price points on order to do some fun trial and error.

Clearly your professional experience helped and shows in the benchmarking. Well done!

PS. Be prepared for the professional Snark Monsters to come after you. LOL. But normal people do appreciate you sharing your findings.

 

[Puma Cat]

I choose Door #1. Not really looking for all of the technical data, more for guidance from anyone who has replaced an all-ethernet chain from router to network player (in my case the LUMIN T2) with the above set-up, how much of an investment it would be, would it be a noticeable improvement in sound quality, and would the improvement in SQ be worth the investment. Yes - opinions are subjective, but that's what I visit the forums for. Guidance from people with experience to help me decide what to audition, no more no less.

Frankly, I am not in the market for any of the expensive cables, some of which would cost more than my components. It will be a stretch getting two short ethernet cables of good quality for both ends of the chain.

Any recommendations for a good optical transceiver?

Thanks already for your help.

The brief answer is that installing a run of optical fiber will make a noticeable improvement audio quality because optical will not pass a specific class of a noise component, called high-source impedance leakage current (current requires a "metal" cable for conduction). Optical will not pass "current" because it's passing photons as the signal, instead.

High-source impedance leakage current is one of the bad actors in this play, and is usally created by the switch-mode power supplies (SMPS) that are used as power supplles for almost all Ethernet routers, switches and fiber media convertors (FMCs), etc. The impact of high-source impedance leakage current is that it causes a specific form of jitter known as threshold jitter* and this class of jitter impacts timing, which are brains are very sensitive to down in the picosecond range when listening to music (and why good DACs and streamers, etc, require femtoclocks).

The other bad actor is the common-mode noise referred to above.

With respect to your setup, an effective path is: Music server->good Ethernet->Ethernet router or switch->better Ethernet->FMC->fiber (usually LC/LC single-mode)->FMC->Best Ethernet cable->your Lumin T2

If it's in your budget, I'd recommend the Venom or Venom-X Ethernet cable at the downstream (destination) end. The destination end is the most impactful end. If you have the budget for another quality Ethernet cable, the next most important position is from the router to the FMC at the upstream end, and 3) from the music server to the router.

You want to use the highest-quality networking components closest to your Lumin T2 at the destination end.

A key component is that the power supplies for the Ethernet switch and FMCs, etc. need to be clean, low-noise linear power supplies. Good news is that you can get a good-quality linear power supply from Jameco Electronics for the Ethernet switches and FMCs for about $15/each.

AC/DC Linear Power Supplies Regulated | Jameco Electronics

You can start with "generic" FMC's, e.g TP/Link, etc., just be sure to use one with an LC/LC single-mode optical transceiver port. Better FMC subsystems are are availabe in the SOtM sNH-10G High-End Audio Ethernet switch, and the Sonore OpticalModule Deluxe. The most important FMC is the one at the destination end, and it needs to be powered by a good LPS. I've heard good things about the Teddy Pardo power supply, and I would imagine the SOtM sPS-500 is a good one, as well. But if you're budget-constrained, you can use the Jameco Reliapro wall-wart style LPS's.

SOtM sNH-10G High-End Audio SwitchsNH-10G High-End Audio Switch Hub – Crux Audio USA

Sonore OpticalModule Deluxe: Sonore - OpticalModule Deluxe

One of the best optical transceivers is the Finisar FTLF8519P3BNL 1000BASE-SX 2.125Gb/s 850nm LC Connector SFP Transceiver. You can get 'em at Amazon.

If you got the SOtM Ethernet switch AND the OpticalModule Deluxe(OM), you could try either in each position, upstream or downstream, and determine which configuration sounds best. Both of these require quality linear power supplies. Ideally, use SOtM or OM Deluxe in both locations, upstream and downstream.

Your Lumin T2 is an excellent streamer/DAC, so you're all set there.

As for the improvements, every improvement made in the path above will make the presentation sound better "across the board": more natural, accurate, and involving, with improved clarity, transparency, resolution and dynamics, and notably less hash, grit, grain, and grunge. The bass and lower octaves power and definition will improve and the highs will sound more extended and natural. Instrumental and vocal tone and timbre will be more accurate, natural, and articulated. You should be able to hear the "decay" of notes trailing off in the recording venue/space.

*-You should at least read this white paper by professional networking and UpTone and Sonore engineer, John Swenson:https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0660/6121/files/UpTone-J.Swenson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386

I guess that wasn't so brief, after all. But, this should get you going. Feel free to reach out if you have more questions, either here or via PM. Cheers.

 

[Puma Cat]

Thank you for sharing your experience and results. Greatly appreciated!

I do have a Supra 8 on order not because I think it's going to be my favorite cable ever, but because I do have several different ones at different price points on order to do some fun trial and error.

Clearly your professional experience helped and shows in the benchmarking. Well done!

PS. Be prepared for the professional Snark Monsters to come after you. LOL. But normal people do appreciate you sharing your findings.

The Supra Cat 8 is quite a good cable for it's price. It has an "energetic and kicky" quality to it that makes it fun. It kinda reminds me of Rega P3 TTs in that regard. Just be sure to use with gear that is not too aggressive or hot on the top end. Belden Cat 6/6A is just yucky; hard and aggressive. The AQ Vodka is a very nice cable, too, especially tonally, but it's "thinner" and more 2-dimensional sounding compared to Venom. The WW Starlight Cat 8 is very transparent and clean, but too bright and kinda thin-sounding in highly-resolving systems.

I'll be interested in your findings from your experiments. BTW, you can "rent in" cables from the CableCo. That's what I did for most of the cables in my competitive benchmarking eval.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

The Supra Cat 8 is quite a good cable for it's price. It has an "energetic and kicky" quality to it that makes it fun. It kinda reminds me of Rega P3 TTs in that regard. Just be sure to use with gear that is not too aggressive or hot on the top end. Belden Cat 6/6A is just yucky; hard and aggressive. The AQ Vodka is a very nice cable, too, especially tonally, but it's "thinner" and more 2-dimensional sounding compared to Venom. The WW Starlight Cat 8 is very transparent and clean, but too bright and kinda thin-sounding in highly-resolving systems.

I'll be interested in your findings from your experiments. BTW, you can "rent in" cables from the CableCo. That's what I did for most of the cables in my competitive benchmarking eval.

I'll be happy to share.

Going to be conducting a variety of tests with everything from which ethernet switch, switch for PS, filters, ethernet cables at different price points and kinds, etc. I think it's going to be a lot of fun and interesting to see what changes what.

I'm going to try quite a few mix and match combinations of gear.

 

[Puma Cat]

I'll be happy to share.

Going to be conducting a variety of tests with everything from which ethernet switch, switch for PS, filters, ethernet cables at different price points and kinds, etc. I think it's going to be a lot of fun and interesting to see what changes what.

I'm going to try quite a few mix and match combinations of gear.

Cool. If I may make a suggestion, just map out a clear evaluation plan beforehand and be systematic. I was a professional scientist my entire career, and part of a good experimental plan is to establish a "datum" as the basis for experiments, and then make systematic changes in reference to the datum "base plan". That way you won't "get lost." This is the best way to be systematic unless you're going to be doing *DOEs (Designs of Experiments) and for those, you need a qualified MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) and a way to accurately & precisely measure a continuous data variable, and a stats program like JMP.

*–I did a DOE back when I integrated my REL sub in to my 2-channel system because decibels is a "continuous data" variable. Results shown from JMP...

Check out this surface response plot showing the interaction between sub gain and crossover at 155 Hz.

Results before (blue) and after (green) doing the sub DOE based on the Harman curve as a reference.

Granted, this is getting pretty deep into continuous variable control factor and response analysis...:lol:

 

[Michaels HiFi]

Cool. If I may make a suggestion, just map out a clear evaluation plan beforehand and be systematic. I was a professional scientist my entire career, and part of a good experimental plan is to establish a "datum" as the basis for experiments, and then make systematic changes in reference to the datum "base plan". That way you won't "get lost." This is the best way to be systematic unless you're going to be doing *DOEs (Designs of Experiments) and for those, you need a qualified MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) and a way to accurately & precisely measure a continuous data variable, and a stats program like JMP.

*–I did a DOE back when I integrated my REL sub in to my 2-channel system because decibels is a "continuous data" variable. Results shown from JMP...

Check out this surface response plot showing the interaction between sub gain and crossover at 155 Hz.

Results before (blue) and after (green) doing the sub DOE based on the Harman curve as a reference.

Granted, this is getting pretty deep into continuous variable control factor and response analysis...:lol:

Much appreciated! I want to do things in small increments so I can understand what if any difference there is vs. too many variables at once. Fair warning - it will not be anywhere near your scientific level! LOL

 

[JCS123]

The brief answer is that installing a run of optical fiber will make a noticeable improvement audio quality because optical will not pass a specific class of a noise component, called high-source impedance leakage current (current requires a "metal" cable for conduction). Optical will not pass "current" because it's passing photons as the signal, instead.

High-source impedance leakage current is one of the bad actors in this play, and is usally created by the switch-mode power supplies (SMPS) that are used as power supplles for almost all Ethernet routers, switches and fiber media convertors (FMCs), etc. The impact of high-source impedance leakage current is that it causes a specific form of jitter known as threshold jitter* and this class of jitter impacts timing, which are brains are very sensitive to down in the picosecond range when listening to music (and why good DACs and streamers, etc, require femtoclocks).

The other bad actor is the common-mode noise referred to above.

With respect to your setup, an effective path is: Music server->good Ethernet->Ethernet router or switch->better Ethernet->FMC->fiber (usually LC/LC single-mode)->FMC->Best Ethernet cable->your Lumin T2

If it's in your budget, I'd recommend the Venom or Venom-X Ethernet cable at the downstream (destination) end. The destination end is the most impactful end. If you have the budget for another quality Ethernet cable, the next most important position is from the router to the FMC at the upstream end, and 3) from the music server to the router.

You want to use the highest-quality networking components closest to your Lumin T2 at the destination end.

A key component is that the power supplies for the Ethernet switch and FMCs, etc. need to be clean, low-noise linear power supplies. Good news is that you can get a good-quality linear power supply from Jameco Electronics for the Ethernet switches and FMCs for about $15/each.

AC/DC Linear Power Supplies Regulated | Jameco Electronics

You can start with "generic" FMC's, e.g TP/Link, etc., just be sure to use one with an LC/LC single-mode optical transceiver port. Better FMC subsystems are are availabe in the SOtM sNH-10G High-End Audio Ethernet switch, and the Sonore OpticalModule Deluxe. The most important FMC is the one at the destination end, and it needs to be powered by a good LPS. I've heard good things about the Teddy Pardo power supply, and I would imagine the SOtM sPS-500 is a good one, as well. But if you're budget-constrained, you can use the Jameco Reliapro wall-wart style LPS's.

SOtM sNH-10G High-End Audio SwitchsNH-10G High-End Audio Switch Hub – Crux Audio USA

Sonore OpticalModule Deluxe: Sonore - OpticalModule Deluxe

One of the best optical transceivers is the Finisar FTLF8519P3BNL 1000BASE-SX 2.125Gb/s 850nm LC Connector SFP Transceiver. You can get 'em at Amazon.

If you got the SOtM Ethernet switch AND the OpticalModule Deluxe(OM), you could try either in each position, upstream or downstream, and determine which configuration sounds best. Both of these require quality linear power supplies. Ideally, use SOtM or OM Deluxe in both locations, upstream and downstream.

Your Lumin T2 is an excellent streamer/DAC, so you're all set there.

As for the improvements, every improvement made in the path above will make the presentation sound better "across the board": more natural, accurate, and involving, with improved clarity, transparency, resolution and dynamics, and notably less hash, grit, grain, and grunge. The bass and lower octaves power and definition will improve and the highs will sound more extended and natural. Instrumental and vocal tone and timbre will be more accurate, natural, and articulated. You should be able to hear the "decay" of notes trailing off in the recording venue/space.

*-You should at least read this white paper by professional networking and UpTone and Sonore engineer, John Swenson:https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0660/6121/files/UpTone-J.Swenson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386

I guess that wasn't so brief, after all. But, this should get you going. Feel free to reach out if you have more questions, either here or via PM. Cheers.

I appreciate the input, Puma. I see where you say "Music server->good Ethernet->Ethernet router or switch->better Ethernet->FMC->..." Does my going straight from router to ethernet switch suggest another weak link? I don't have a dedicated music server, per se and I don't need to store any music for now. My use case is about 90% streaming Qobuz and the remaining 10% split between internet radio and CD's.

My final question for you (drifting a bit O/T, my apologies): Have you tried using the Leedh processing in your P1 or other LUMIN models?

I will be looking more in to this tomorrow or over the weekend, but for now -

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

 

[jmusica]

The brief answer is that installing a run of optical fiber will make a noticeable improvement audio quality….

With respect to your setup, an effective path is: Music server->good Ethernet->Ethernet router or switch->better Ethernet->FMC->fiber (usually LC/LC single-mode)->FMC->Best Ethernet cable->your Lumin T2

This is the heart of it. Follow this advice, and I’m very confident you’ll hear improvement.

Also, Puma, agree about the 1.5M ethernet length; I recall reading a lot about that now you said it. Feel like I haven’t seen you here for a while, good to see you back if so.

Single Mode fiber is preferable due to differences in how the light is transmitted. That said, I’ve tried both and didn’t hear a difference that was perceptible to me.

I also agree with LPS’s to replace SPS / wall warts everywhere you can, at least starting with the ethernet switch. In addition to the ones mentioned, Keces makes nice ones.

And it’s not a problem you are streaming and have no music server, the rest of the path is as-recommended.

I’d still see if I could get an ethernet switch with a built-in slot for a fiber module. Eliminates another device and another power supply in the chain. Meraki makes one that’s not super expensive, although the SOTM one is superior.

 

[JCS123]

This is the heart of it. Follow this advice, and I’m very confident you’ll hear improvement.

Also, Puma, agree about the 1.5M ethernet length; I recall reading a lot about that now you said it. Feel like I haven’t seen you here for a while, good to see you back if so.

Single Mode fiber is preferable due to differences in how the light is transmitted. That said, I’ve tried both and didn’t hear a difference that was perceptible to me.

I also agree with LPS’s to replace SPS / wall warts everywhere you can, at least starting with the ethernet switch. In addition to the ones mentioned, Keces makes nice ones.

And it’s not a problem you are streaming and have no music server, the rest of the path is as-recommended.

I’d still see if I could get an ethernet switch with a built-in slot for a fiber module. Eliminates another device and another power supply in the chain. Meraki makes one that’s not super expensive, although the SOTM one is superior.

Thanks, jmusica.I'll be doing more research in the coming days. What I am discovering is how cheap optical cables are compared to other digital cables. The ultimate goal for me is the LUMIN P1 or X1 (heck, LUMIN might well have a new flagship or two by the time my finances allow for that kind of investment). Until then, trying to determine whether or not working fiber into the current setup is a worthwhile venture.