MusicDirector
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I'll say this. I have a system that is around 39 years old, going strong and will most likely out-live me. (Scary thought).
Could you keep your current (or favorite) gear for 10, 15, 20+ years?
- Thread starter joeinid
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To answer your title question Joe: Yes I could keep it as is. It's quite an enjoyable listen for me.
Will I ever change it?: Yes, I'm sure I will if I can afford to do so.
Though my current setup is nice I would be delusional to think it's the best that could be assembled in my room. If I had an infinite amount of money to play with in order to test different components that certainly would be one method of "getting there". Because that's not a reality at this time (or in the foreseeable future) I'll need to continue to do what I've always done and that's to buy and sell (in as smart of fashion as possible) and climb my way up the quality-ladder with a focus toward upward instead of sideways or backward.
Will I ever change it?: Yes, I'm sure I will if I can afford to do so.
Though my current setup is nice I would be delusional to think it's the best that could be assembled in my room. If I had an infinite amount of money to play with in order to test different components that certainly would be one method of "getting there". Because that's not a reality at this time (or in the foreseeable future) I'll need to continue to do what I've always done and that's to buy and sell (in as smart of fashion as possible) and climb my way up the quality-ladder with a focus toward upward instead of sideways or backward.
I'm extremely happy with my Esoteric K-01, Soulution 520 preamp, Soulution 501 amps and Raidho D3. As far as cables go I am planning to complete my interconnects and speakers cables with Kimber Select and my power cords with Audience AU24SE. The only component I could see myself potentially changing in the future would be my digital source as further advances are achieved. And I would in all likelihood stick with Esoteric. I would also consider adding a clock in the future but not a definite.
RichardAusten
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I have had my Audio Note J/Spe and OTO Phono SE for 11 years and if I were not a reviewer those items could easily stand up for the rest of my days. If something was good 20 years ago when the OTO and J/Spe were selling they should still be good today - indeed both still sell well - perhaps better than they ever did if their backorders and backlogs have anything to say about it.
I would not get too impressed with the 20 year warranty - the warranty is factored into the price you pay. If there are two amps that are basically the same and one has a 20 year warranty and the price is $5,000 and the other amp with a 5 year warranty is $3,000 then the latter may actually be the much better buy. It is doubtful the amp will require $2,000 worth of repairs and since power amp have no moving parts there is little that can actually go wrong. Companies often have pretty good projections and bean counters to figure the life expectancy of things then calculate repair costs to come up with warranties and pricing. You'll notice that Bryston only warrantied their CD player for 5 years. Consumer Reports years back noted that CD players/DVD players had an overall average life span of 7 years. Warranty companies always warranty the "trough" the time where the least failures actually occur. Years 2-5. If a given product makes it a year then the majority of the time they will last 5. The warranty companies warrant that time where least failures occur.
Bryston to their credit has EXCELLENT customer service and the warranty certainly provides consumer confidence in their products - but I knew the purchasing agent head repair tech of Commercial Electronics (Vancouver) - the largest Bryston dealer in North America at the time and may still be - and he noted that Bryston fails just as often as anything else in the store - which was not often admittedly but it was no better than the likes of Classe or YBA or other lines they carried at the time. Although some lines at that time -middle late 90s had horrible customer service.
My view of this is to go on sound quality first and foremost. Bryston got me interested in high end audio but when I went to my dealer - Soundhounds in Victoria BC - I was preparing myself to buy a 4B and their preamp. In a direct A/B they put the OTO on (from a comapny I had never heard of at that time) and it was pretty much game over from the first few bars of Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata.
And that is a very difficult proposition because here you have a mighty Bryston 20 year warranty with 160 watts per channel or whatever they are (usually perform better than spec in watts). The things have battleship looking build quality. The OTO is an integrated amps had a whole 1 year warranty carries a whole 10 watts per channel from ahem - tubes and is solidly but hardly spectacularly built and cost about as much.
The question is do I take the Ferrari performance knowing I may need to put it in the shop more or do I take the Honda Civic hatchback with far less concern over failure but get Civic hatchback performance?
Of course sound is subjective - it's a best of both worlds if you feel the Bryston is giving you the Ferrari performance on top of the security. As a Canadian I was doing everything I could to justify it to myself. Had I felt the Bryston was "close enough" in sound I would have bought them instead because 19 years more warranty, more flexible, more connections, being Canadian, lots of dealers to get repairs etc. But for me it just wasn't close enough in sound which is, at the end of the day, 95% of the factor to buying audio gear. I would rather have 10 years of happy listening and paying a few hundred in repairs over 20 years of listening to something that doesn't make me happy.
I would not get too impressed with the 20 year warranty - the warranty is factored into the price you pay. If there are two amps that are basically the same and one has a 20 year warranty and the price is $5,000 and the other amp with a 5 year warranty is $3,000 then the latter may actually be the much better buy. It is doubtful the amp will require $2,000 worth of repairs and since power amp have no moving parts there is little that can actually go wrong. Companies often have pretty good projections and bean counters to figure the life expectancy of things then calculate repair costs to come up with warranties and pricing. You'll notice that Bryston only warrantied their CD player for 5 years. Consumer Reports years back noted that CD players/DVD players had an overall average life span of 7 years. Warranty companies always warranty the "trough" the time where the least failures actually occur. Years 2-5. If a given product makes it a year then the majority of the time they will last 5. The warranty companies warrant that time where least failures occur.
Bryston to their credit has EXCELLENT customer service and the warranty certainly provides consumer confidence in their products - but I knew the purchasing agent head repair tech of Commercial Electronics (Vancouver) - the largest Bryston dealer in North America at the time and may still be - and he noted that Bryston fails just as often as anything else in the store - which was not often admittedly but it was no better than the likes of Classe or YBA or other lines they carried at the time. Although some lines at that time -middle late 90s had horrible customer service.
My view of this is to go on sound quality first and foremost. Bryston got me interested in high end audio but when I went to my dealer - Soundhounds in Victoria BC - I was preparing myself to buy a 4B and their preamp. In a direct A/B they put the OTO on (from a comapny I had never heard of at that time) and it was pretty much game over from the first few bars of Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata.
And that is a very difficult proposition because here you have a mighty Bryston 20 year warranty with 160 watts per channel or whatever they are (usually perform better than spec in watts). The things have battleship looking build quality. The OTO is an integrated amps had a whole 1 year warranty carries a whole 10 watts per channel from ahem - tubes and is solidly but hardly spectacularly built and cost about as much.
The question is do I take the Ferrari performance knowing I may need to put it in the shop more or do I take the Honda Civic hatchback with far less concern over failure but get Civic hatchback performance?
Of course sound is subjective - it's a best of both worlds if you feel the Bryston is giving you the Ferrari performance on top of the security. As a Canadian I was doing everything I could to justify it to myself. Had I felt the Bryston was "close enough" in sound I would have bought them instead because 19 years more warranty, more flexible, more connections, being Canadian, lots of dealers to get repairs etc. But for me it just wasn't close enough in sound which is, at the end of the day, 95% of the factor to buying audio gear. I would rather have 10 years of happy listening and paying a few hundred in repairs over 20 years of listening to something that doesn't make me happy.
bzr
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I think Bryston is the only manufacturer to offer an extraordinary 20 year warranty (still thinking about those 28BSST² amps). This will help reduce financial outlay going forward to maybe just shipping charges.
I've been thinking about what gear (I have or I am thinking about getting) that I could conceivably ride into the sunset and/or get off the merry go round and enjoy. I know this sounds funny coming from me :weird:, but we all take a financial hit swapping gear, and lately, seems to be getting easier to lose money.
I have a few pieces now, barring failure, improper repairs or lack of parts, that I am loving and may never sell. Re-tubing amps/preamps bring them back to sounding like new. Class A amps run hot, could they last 10-20 years or longer without intervention? Are there certain designs that sound awesome and seem to last forever?
I am curious for those in or near retirement, are you pretty set system-wise? Do you budget a certain amount for new/different gear? I'd love your thoughts.
Could I? Easily! Do I want to? NO!!!
Joe, i'm really happy that you and Mike are enjoying your Strads. They are deserved classics :thumbsup:.Hi David,
I love my Stads, so they are staying. I have been thinking about possibly replacing the 40.1's when they go. If it were not for my Strads, they'd be my primary speakers.
I have been thinking Magico S3 and even Salon2's as alternates. I am in no way obsessed with more or new speakers now, but it's nice to dream.
I may eventually get away from tubes, but so difficult to do considering how amazing they sound. I don't like to worry about them, but realize it's mostly in my head. I've never had a problem with them so far and realize the fear may be irrational.
Music is on more than my TV and even then, the sound is muted on the TV while I listen to the music.
Choice of solid state is important. Ease of repair and warranty come into play as well as what speaker I use with it. My XA60.5's are amazing and wonder about the Pass point 8 version. I think an upgrade to the newer amps is coming by next winter. The added heat will be welcome for these cold nights
I think the Sony's will eventually be sold as I am getting away from cds and using a server/computer with dac. Non-essential gear is being sold off as I pare down to what moves me.
I appreciate everyone's thoughts. It's interesting to see where we all end up. I do love the gear, but enjoy the music more.
I have enjoyed my auditions of the Magico S3's which have very open and transparent midrange and have good bass in a small to small-medium room, though in a medium to medium-large room, the S5's would be a better choice and would properly pressurize the room. The S3's do one or two things a bit better than S5, but the S5's are a better balanced, and therefore more coherent sounding speaker overall imho. They have better bass, are more controlled and have a bigger stage size (which isn't a surprise). But the S3's for their size and driver compliment are an amazing loudspeaker.
Btw Joe, I think your CJ amps will do a stellar job driving the Strads. Where Vitus would have an edge is the fact you can integrate a VA cd player if you enjoy spinning silver discs like me. The coherency and musicality of the SIA-025 & SCD-010 I auditioned was amazing, and the SCD-025 is much better again. I also plan on adding a server transport at some stage & will be keeping an eye out on Hans Ole's future product offerings. There are many pathways to musical nirvana...different horses for different courses as they say! :audiophile:.
- Thread Author
- #29
Thank you David. I am cranking my Strads as I type this and love them. I'm playing the Pass XA60.5's with the GAT right now and absolutely love the combo together. Of course my ART monos top all my gear but 16 KT-120's dying for casual listening seems like overkill. I know, it's something that I need to get over and could see that's where the ARTsa stereo amp comes in. it's nice having the luxury. I do confess to thinking about going to the Pass point 8 or even Xs series amps based on what I'm hearing right now and having owned previous Pass gear. Nelson Pass is a genius and I do love what he does.
I'll probably wait to see what shakes out from Magico regarding S3/S5 and see if anything changes. I'm in no hurry and maybe M project technology will trickle down the line to some of the other speakers.
I so want to hear Vitus and feel the SIA-025 has more than enough drive for me. I'm curious how it will sound on my Strads, could be a perfect complement.
it's nice having the luxury. I do confess to thinking about going to the Pass point 8 or even Xs series amps based on what I'm hearing right now and having owned previous Pass gear. Nelson Pass is a genius and I do love what he does. I'll probably wait to see what shakes out from Magico regarding S3/S5 and see if anything changes. I'm in no hurry and maybe M project technology will trickle down the line to some of the other speakers.
I so want to hear Vitus and feel the SIA-025 has more than enough drive for me. I'm curious how it will sound on my Strads, could be a perfect complement.
Tub-ey or not tub-ey, that is the question :doubtful:Thank you David. I am cranking my Strads as I type this and love them. I'm playing the Pass XA60.5's with the GAT right now and absolutely love the combo together. Of course my ART monos top all my gear but 16 KT-120's dying for casual listening seems like overkill. I know, it's something that I need to get over and could see that's where the ARTsa stereo amp comes in.
I agree with the general recommendation of fast, powerful ss power with the Strads, and the XA.8 and XS series by all acounts fits the bill.
Mmm, I think you will be waiting a long time. Alon will refresh the Q series before he brings out new models in the S Series, and he is only one down so far. Releasing the Q7 Mk2 would have been a high priority to keep that model at the top of Magico's lineup of dynamic speakers. I think Magico will take more time before moving onto the Q5, Q3 & Q1 and likely time the releases for major shows like CES or Munich. To me, that translates into atleast 3 years before the S series is updated. With that said, it would have to be a big step up in sound for me to get itchy feet :buzz:
You're welcome to bring your Strads over to my place any time Joe! :roflmao:
dlb2
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I don't see the point of it. Even if advances in technology/sound slow to a crawl the idea of trying something different is alluring. Why settle for the same old thing you've been listening to for years. I don't know why we, as audiophiles, would be so content with thinking our system is the best it could be. Those that do are just fooling themselves. 
Dpod4
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I don't think vitus sounds as good as pass or cj. I rotated a vitus amp into my system a few months ago and it had a very open sound but was not organic and didn't have the midrange tubes or good class A brings to the party. It sounded boosted in the bass and treble comparatively which in my system sounded awesome at first (wow factors) and then had me missing air tight and constellation
Interesting. I am so smitten with my XS (or as my friend Howard calls them "excess") amps that I don't want to change a thing. Their sweetness is so damn addicting. The bigness of sound, organic tonality, huge dynamics and terrific bass control and bass depth and of course, glorious mids. Joe and I used to say "there is no perfect amp" - but I have to tell you, the XS are as close to perfect as I've ever heard. Ever.
I hope you get to try them one day Darrin.
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RichardAusten
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I don't see the point of it. Even if advances in technology/sound slow to a crawl the idea of trying something different is alluring. Why settle for the same old thing you've been listening to for years. I don't know why we, as audiophiles, would be so content with thinking our system is the best it could be. Those that do are just fooling themselves.
I think there is a big difference in types of upgrades. One upgrade comes from fixing various problems that annoy you while the other form of upgrade is attaining a deeper better version of what you have.
Moving to SET from SS is an example of the first - moving from one SET to a better SET is the example of the second.
There isn't a Solid State amplifier that I have heard in the last 25 years that I can say I would truly want to own. On a low budget the Sugden A21a is the only one and well it is a Single Ended Topology and one of the only SS amps designed that way - the only one I know of actually.
I haven't heard any of the big boys make an amp I'd really want. I'd like to retry Analog Domain and if Technical Brain can sort out their failure issues they seemed to be on the right track. Pass Labs First Watt perhaps. This is not to say I don't like them or respect them or even get wowed by some of them. But like Art Dudley I suppose - none of them goosebump factor me and when paying for luxury as Art puts it I want luxurious sound. And that in turn limits the speakers to what SETs can drive - fortunately my experience dovetails with my experience of loudspeakers - HE (to me) sounds better.
- Thread Author
- #36
Darrin,
Thank you for your opinion. I know you've auditioned a lot of gear and I also respect your opinion. It takes me awhile to get to know a piece and maybe that why I am very content with my gear. No doubt the allure of opening a new piece of gear is exciting. Could I be happy with what I have now? I totally am. Do I crave something different? I think we all know the answer.
Mike,
Based on my Pass 60.5's, moving up the line is inevitable for me. We've talked about this and I know how much you love the Xs (Excess) amps. I can only imagine.
Darrin, we all hear things differently. I would absolutely expect $103k worth of Pass amps or $60k worth of CJ amps to sound better than a $25k integrated amp. With that said, I'm not sure what Vitus amplifier you heard as you did not list the model. For starters, the Vitus Signature series is quite a bit better than the Reference series. And the Vitus SS-102/SL-102 combo are quite a bit better than the SIA-025 integrated, whilst the SM-011 mono's paired with the SL-102 preamp are awesome & would compete with any of the earlier mentioned gear. Vitus power amps should be matched with a Vitus preamplifier for best sound. Then you have to consider synergy with the connected equipment. I don't doubt you're honestly conveying what you heard, but I wouldn't be so quick to reach a conclusion about the sound of Vitus gear. That's all.
bzr
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Darrin,
Thank you for your opinion. I know you've auditioned a lot of gear and I also respect your opinion. It takes me awhile to get to know a piece and maybe that why I am very content with my gear. No doubt the allure of opening a new piece of gear is exciting. Could I be happy with what I have now? I totally am. Do I crave something different? I think we all know the answer.
Mike,
Based on my Pass 60.5's, moving up the line is inevitable for me. We've talked about this and I know how much you love the Xs (Excess) amps. I can only imagine.
Joe, that bit up there underlined & highlighted, great advice & needs to be read & thought through by some. At the very least, a component or several needs to be heard in their own system, or, even better lived with on a day to day in their system for credibility
- Thread Author
- #39
David,
My local Baskin-Robbins ice cream parlour has 31 flavors. Not everyone orders the same flavor. Just because someone does not agree with me or you is not catastrophic. It's all just opinion. Heck, if all the reviewers were right, we'd only have their favorite audio manufacturers to choose from. This is what makes this hobby fun and frustrating. Everything matters. I hope that was said with tongue-in-cheek
Thanks Kev,
Am I growing up?
Ha! Maybe.
bzr
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