Budgeting your system

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[TD]Speakers / Subs: 16%[/TD]
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[TD]Amps: 16%[/TD]
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[TD]Preamp: 13%[/TD]
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[TD]Source / DAC: 20%[/TD]
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[TD]Cables: 17%[/TD]
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[TD]Power Cond. & Cables: 18%

I went for a more balanced approach. If I were to follow the ratio in the opening post, I would need a 225K pair of speakers, which would make no sense, considering the equipment I have.[/TD]
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This is a great thread that makes me think about my budget if I were to start again from scratch.

Let's just say I had $50,000 to spend on an entire new audio system. What would I get? What would that look like in terms of percentages? Let's see...

Speakers: Harbeth 40.2 ($15,700 or 32%)

Amp: PrimaLuna Dialogue HP monoblocks ($7800 or 16%)

Preamp: PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium ($3200 or 6.5%)

Tubes (KT150's, NOS Brimar and Mullard 12AU7's, and rectifier): $3020 or 6%

Digital: PS Audio DirectStream DAC with Bridge II ($6900 or 14%)

Power: maybe going a little overboard here, but PS Audio Power Plant P10 ($5000 or 10%)

Cables: not sure what brand, but budget roughly 10% ($5000)

Rack and speaker stands: budget $2500 or 5%

This comes to $49,120, so a little wiggle room for other accessories if wanted.

Now, I would also consider going to a Luxman L-590AX Mk. II integrated ($9000) as opposed to the PrimaLuna gear. This would save a little money on cables and tubes (about $6000 total), which could be reinvested in a turntable setup or better DAC or speakers.

What systems would others put together from scratch?
 
4N6 said:
This is a great thread that makes me think about my budget if I were to start again from scratch.

Let's just say I had $50,000 to spend on an entire new audio system. What would I get? What would that look like in terms of percentages? Let's see...

Speakers: Harbeth 40.2 ($15,700 or 32%)

Amp: PrimaLuna Dialogue HP monoblocks ($7800 or 16%)

Preamp: PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium ($3200 or 6.5%)

Tubes (KT150's, NOS Brimar and Mullard 12AU7's, and rectifier): $3020 or 6%

Digital: PS Audio DirectStream DAC with Bridge II ($6900 or 14%)

Power: maybe going a little overboard here, but PS Audio Power Plant P10 ($5000 or 10%)

Cables: not sure what brand, but budget roughly 10% ($5000)

Rack and speaker stands: budget $2500 or 5%

This comes to $49,120, so a little wiggle room for other accessories if wanted.

Now, I would also consider going to a Luxman L-590AX Mk. II integrated ($9000) as opposed to the PrimaLuna gear. This would save a little money on cables and tubes (about $6000 total), which could be reinvested in a turntable setup.

What systems would others put together from scratch?
Click to expand...


Forget Harbeth, With a 50K budget and willing to flex between used and new Items you could get a SOTA level system by getting a refurbed Infinity (17-22K) IRS system and work backwards , with amp, source, cables , etc....
 
I'd start with a MSB Select dac, fully hot rodded & do the trickle down effect from there.
 
Yeah Paul McGowan did that for years ( sideways digital) and then got serious ..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NPazywXrqJo

While i can agree there are differences in Digital performance, IMO, most are making sideways moves with a big dose of placebo. Analog is a different story, so much variables there to discuss With an analog TT , that it would require its own section.

Speakers and amplifiers sets the stage , the rest is icing ....



Regards
 
sharkmouth said:
I'd start with a MSB Select dac, fully hot rodded & do the trickle down effect from there.
Click to expand...

I agree that the MSB Select II DAC is probably the only DAC on the market that could be the anchor component for my system. No preamp is needed. MSB M204 monoblocks for the amps and then choose your speakers. YG Sonja sounded wonderful. I bet my Vandersteen 7 MkII would be awesome on the system too.
 
Alpinist said:
I agree that the MSB Select II DAC is probably the only DAC on the market that could be the anchor component for my system. No preamp is needed. MSB M204 monoblocks for the amps and then choose your speakers. YG Sonja sounded wonderful. I bet my Vandersteen 7 MkII would be awesome on the system too.
Click to expand...

This may be OT (and for analog fans only), but I have issues with a 100k dac even with the built in volume control when a DarTZeel preamp with SOTA volume control and phono stage is 38k.

So I would never put that high a % on dac/pre on any system.
 
Alpinist said:
I agree that the MSB Select II DAC is probably the only DAC on the market that could be the anchor component for my system. No preamp is needed. MSB M204 monoblocks for the amps and then choose your speakers. YG Sonja sounded wonderful. I bet my Vandersteen 7 MkII would be awesome on the system too.
Click to expand...


I would find it Hard living without a pre, love drive and dynamics too much ...
 
KeithR said:
This may be OT (and for analog fans only), but I have issues with a 100k dac even with the built in volume control when a DarTZeel preamp with SOTA volume control and phono stage is 38k.

So I would never put that high a % on dac/pre on any system.
Click to expand...

Keith - I guess my "fear" is that digital ages so quickly. Wasn't the Trinity DAC all the rage just a couple of years ago? And the CH DAC just after that? I remember when they came out, people went crazy and now you can't give them away. Ditto for the $50k CH DAC and so many others that set new prices for digital playback.

That being said, what I have seen is that MSB and DCS (and Berkeley in the $20k range) don't leave their owners behind. They provide an upgrade path and that's good!

Would I rather have a $60K pimped out Kronos Pro with SCPS-1 with a killer $15k cart and a $15k ARC phonostage for a total of $90k than a $90k DAC? For me, yes. But I consider a great analog setup worth the money over a modest one. When it comes to digital and the comparisons I've done against a friends DCS, I have a hard time making the leap from my Berk REF2 to his DCS Vivaldi. That $90k turntable rig will still be great in 15 years.

Now in a perfect world, I wouldn't have to choose. [emoji6]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Mike, we both know tt's are changing as much as digital. How long has the Kronos Pro been around? How long was the best Kronos on the market before that etc. etc. We, as the mass market swarm to the idea of the next latest greatest, it's called the dragon's tail. If we were to choose with our ears when we hear an improvement, I'm guessing the audio industry would fail quite rapidly in the high end. I think digital has arrived, the recording technicians on the other hand, well. I can't say I've heard vinyl that has made me feel any better than digital & vice versa, I've heard plenty of bad examples in both, but, when I have heard something that has been recorded in the best possible way & is not detrimental to the naturalness of the original sound, in a studio that is extremely beneficial to carrying that recording into any format, I don't care if it is either or either. Maybe you need to put the Kronos through a MSB Select II :D ;)
 
The thread seems to have morphed to a different topic, but as to the original question....

First, budgeting is not one of my better skills.

My main system is Pass INT-250 integrated amp, Esoteric K03X cd player and B&W 803 D2.

So I'm at 1:1:1 for source, amp, speakers.

I have Transparent speaker cables, interconnects and power cords, but I don't think they cost 10% of the total system.
 
I'm at:

Speakers: 41% (38%)
Amps (integrated): 25% (24%)
Sources Digital: 22% (20%)
Source Analog: 1% (7%)
Cables, Power, Racks, etc.: 11% (11%)

I have not realized an update of analog path yet. (% = inclusive planned update of analog source)
 
Mike said:
Keith - I guess my "fear" is that digital ages so quickly. Wasn't the Trinity DAC all the rage just a couple of years ago? And the CH DAC just after that? I remember when they came out, people went crazy and now you can't give them away. Ditto for the $50k CH DAC and so many others that set new prices for digital playback.

That being said, what I have seen is that MSB and DCS (and Berkeley in the $20k range) don't leave their owners behind. They provide an upgrade path and that's good!

Would I rather have a $60K pimped out Kronos Pro with SCPS-1 with a killer $15k cart and a $15k ARC phonostage for a total of $90k than a $90k DAC? For me, yes. But I consider a great analog setup worth the money over a modest one. When it comes to digital and the comparisons I've done against a friends DCS, I have a hard time making the leap from my Berk REF2 to his DCS Vivaldi. That $90k turntable rig will still be great in 15 years.

Now in a perfect world, I wouldn't have to choose. [emoji6]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Geez you could obtain a TOP QUALITY R2R for about a third of the price & listen to something that beats the hell out of digital &/or phono...

Though you would probably need another $15k to pay for a good selection of quality tapes...
 
a.wayne said:
Forget Harbeth, With a 50K budget and willing to flex between used and new Items you could get a SOTA level system by getting a refurbed Infinity (17-22K) IRS system and work backwards , with amp, source, cables , etc....
Click to expand...

100% agree. For the sake of my consideration, I was only going with new equipment. Easier to determine list prices that way. In reality, I would look very hard at the used market as one can really increase value that way.

For me, the "ideal" percentages would be:

Speakers: 35%
Source: 25%
Amplification: 20%
Other (cables, rack, power, etc.): 20%

In the real world (at least in my home), my system has not evolved from an ideal. I have basically upgraded over time - always trying to improve the weakest link - and trying to get the best component I can afford at the time. So my current system is:

Speakers: 29%
Sources: 30%
Amplification: 17%
Other (cables, rack, power, etc.): 24%

When I look at that, I realize that my "Other" category is a little out of whack. Certainly not the next place I will look to upgrade.
 
If I were to guess my system is about 50K euro new. If someone would give me 50K I'm not sure if I'd buy the same. I'll ponder on that for a while

Edit:

Maybe something like this, all new prices.

Symphonic Line RG10ref amp
Lumin D1 streamer
Dr Feickert Woodpecker II TT
dr Feickerts 12" 2A tonearm
Van Den Hul Crimson cart
Van den Hul Grail phono pre
Ansuz cables and power distributor
Blumenhofer FS2 mkII

More or less.
 
KeithR said:
This may be OT (and for analog fans only), but I have issues with a 100k dac even with the built in volume control when a DarTZeel preamp with SOTA volume control and phono stage is 38k.

So I would never put that high a % on dac/pre on any system.
Click to expand...

I know you (and likely others) won't believe this, perhaps only the SELECT II owners will at this point, but the SELECT II is such a breakthrough in digital, that it really changes the way you see a system.

Before, people got whatever digital "du jour", and then worked their system around it. DAC too harsh? Tame it with a nicely colored preamp. Or cables. Or bass traps. Or they just didn't care enough about digital and focused in their analog.

With the SELECT II, you don't need to. What you'll get out of the outputs is as close to the original recording as currently possible. So, just add any neutral enough amps, and you're all set. A suitably resolving speaker must also be part of this, of course...

MSB was never the DAC "du jour", it still isn't, and doesn't want to be either.

The jury is still out there for the MSB Reference, but that promises to be the answer for a lot of folks' prayers, for a more reasonably priced SELECT II. So, couple that with the now mythical, hopefully still forthcoming, cheaper darTZeel monoblocks, and you have a killer system :)
 
Mike said:
Would I rather have a $60K pimped out Kronos Pro with SCPS-1 with a killer $15k cart and a $15k ARC phonostage for a total of $90k than a $90k DAC? For me, yes. But I consider a great analog setup worth the money over a modest one. When it comes to digital and the comparisons I've done against a friends DCS, I have a hard time making the leap from my Berk REF2 to his DCS Vivaldi. That $90k turntable rig will still be great in 15 years.

Now in a perfect world, I wouldn't have to choose. [emoji6]
Click to expand...

Well, you've picked my preferred SOTA analog setup :) But what happens to the folks who just don't want to deal with analog at all, yet still want a SOTA system? For them, $90k in an analog rig like that is just not worth the money, while a $90k digital setup might be exactly what they need to settle down.

But yeah, that last line of yours... You should have t-shirts made with that line :)


cheers,
alex
 
asiufy said:
I know you (and likely others) won't believe this, perhaps only the SELECT II owners will at this point, but the SELECT II is such a breakthrough in digital, that it really changes the way you see a system.

Before, people got whatever digital "du jour", and then worked their system around it. DAC too harsh? Tame it with a nicely colored preamp. Or cables. Or bass traps. Or they just didn't care enough about digital and focused in their analog.

With the SELECT II, you don't need to. What you'll get out of the outputs is as close to the original recording as currently possible. So, just add any neutral enough amps, and you're all set. A suitably resolving speaker must also be part of this, of course...
Click to expand...

so are you dumping all your records to fund a Select II?
 
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