Broke my S5s last night.

XV-1 said:
Based on the information from the OP, playing LOUD without apparent distortion is not misuse. Hell, I would be in real trouble if that was the case :rolleyes:

It should be under warranty as something has failed.

Know doubt we will hear soon what the problem was.
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Magico is very fair and they will diagnose what happened.
 
Those S5 were most likely driven beyond their power limit. According to Magico the recommended power is 50-1200 watts. So with the pre dialed at full volume you most likely hit spikes way beyond 1200 watts. That's not too smart. I use to blow speakers when I was very young. Sorry to hear about this.
 
BlueFox said:
That's right. For some reason I thought it went to 100, but I just ran it up, and it stops at 83. I didn't realize I had it maxed out. Now I have to get another preamp so I can play it louder after it is fixed. :)
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It's not the preamp's fault. You just driven the drivers too hard which probably burnt the voice coils.
 
audio.bill said:
What you have been told is basically true, what you have to be careful of is driving your power amp beyond its output capabilities and into distortion. With some pre/power amp pairings you can run the preamp at its highest volume setting and not be pushing the amp past its limits, while with other combinations a lower volume setting could do so and ultimately cause damage to your speakers. So you have to know your system well and exercise reasonable caution with the volume control. Sometimes by the time you hear your amp starting to misbehave (i.e. clipping distortion) it's too late and the damage may already be done. :(
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Right on the money!
 
I bet if you pull one of the drivers out and did a continuity test with a meter it will show that the voice coil is open. Heat from over power/distortion will de-solder and cause an open circuit.
 
Audioseduction said:
It's not the preamp's fault. You just driven the drivers too hard which probably burnt the voice coils.
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Not the preamp's fault. Preposterous. It certainly can't be my fault. :)

Seriously though, I assumed the preamp's volume went higher. So it never occurred to me I was at the limit. I thought there was plenty of reserve left, and I was getting ready to lower the volume when it broke. Who would calibrate their volume to go between 0 and 83? At least now I know, and I suspect it is going to be an expensive lesson.
 
Audioseduction said:
I bet if you pull one of the drivers out and did a continuity test with a meter it will show that the voice coil is open. Heat from over power/distortion will de-solder and cause an open circuit.
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That's going to be an expensive tweeter to replace...

I would give the other speaker a check up while you're at it too.
 
BlueFox said:
Seriously though, I assumed the preamp's volume went higher. So it never occurred to me I was at the limit. I thought there was plenty of reserve left, and I was getting ready to lower the volume when it broke. Who would calibrate their volume to go between 0 and 83? At least now I know, and I suspect it is going to be an expensive lesson.
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A common misconception is that if your volume control is set at less than its maximum level that you still have headroom available. For example many users think if they set the VC at half of max that they still have half of the available power not being used. The truth is that there is no correlation between the relative volume control setting and how much power you are currently using or how much is left in reserve. There are many variables involved including the source output level, the preamp's gain, the power amps gain and sensitivity, and the impedance and sensitivity of the speakers. This is the reason that you have to exercise caution and be very careful when pushing your system to high volume levels. I have to admit to blowing my share of drivers in my youth before I learned this the hard way!
 
audio.bill said:
A common misconception is that if your volume control is set at less than its maximum level that you still have headroom available. For example many users think if they set the VC at half of max that they still have half of the available power not being used. The truth is that there is no correlation between the relative volume control setting and how much power you are currently using or how much is left in reserve. There are many variables involved including the source output level, the preamp's gain, the power amps gain and sensitivity, and the impedance and sensitivity of the speakers. This is the reason that you have to exercise caution and be very careful when pushing your system to high volume levels. I have to admit to blowing my share of drivers in my youth before I learned this the hard way!
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Guess that's called learning the hard way! :S
 
I had assumed it was referring to gain but just looked it up and it's 26db (normal) so the 30.8 is probably dbW, another way of measuring power, approx 1200w.
 
Yes that's what was confusing me but I understand now . I have just never had a reason to try and figure that out. Got it now, thanks.
 
Mark Jones said:
I had assumed it was referring to gain but just looked it up and it's 26db (normal) so the 30.8 is probably dbW, another way of measuring power, approx 1200w.
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It is a simple formula; 10*log(power) so 10*log(1200)=30.8 dBw
Again, based on the information supplied, the amps were driven too hard. Once clipping accrue they can pass DC, which can damage the speakers instantaneously. That explains why there were no signs of stress. Preamp vol setting has nothing to do with any of that. If you are going to play that loud, you should have an SPL meter telling you how much you can push before damage will accrue and take the peaks as the limit . BTW, all these numbers, as Mark pointed out, are true for 1 meter distance. It is even worse at listening position (deduct ~ 1 dB per foot).
 
Audioseduction said:
It's not the preamp's fault. You just driven the drivers too hard which probably burnt the voice coils.
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Yep. That would be my guess too. Might be XO parts failure, but most likely burnt/open coils.
Absolutely no way a direct radiator mid sensitivity system like the S5 could dissipate those power levels applied. Thermal failure is the most likely cause.
Sounstage tests show alarming levels of (mainly tweeter) power compression at 95db, much less 110+.
dev_95db.gif
Those simplistic "SPL Calculators" cannot account for thermal compression.
The other issues are the music selection (Foghat) has its own distortion....and finally, the ear exhibits it's own compression and distortion at those high levels.
I'm going to be quite frank. As a speaker manufacturer myself, if I heard this story from a customer, I would gladly replace the drivers at dealer cost and cover all labor costs. But I would consider this outside of "normal use".
Make this lesson learned!

cheers,

AJ
 
Bud, this is the speaker rig you want if you're going to play at very high SPLs. Look at the SPL meter to the right. :huh:

a09_grateful.jpg
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Face said:
The caps in series with the tweeter and mid should protect them against DC.
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When an amplifier is pushed beyond its limits it clips, or flattens out the top of the waveform. The clipped signal is not actually DC so series caps in the crossover do not block it. Clipping distortion contains an unusually high amount of energy (actually the sum of multiple odd order harmonics of the actual signal.) That is what generally causes midrange and/or tweeter drivers to blow since they cannot handle that amount of power, and melted voice coils are unfortunately the usual outcome.
 
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