Are audio reviewers biased or incredibly biased?

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socfan12 said:
I don't envy the reviewer's position. The manufacturer sees them as an advocate for their product (especially if they advertise); the consumer sees them as an advocate for the listener, helping them separate the wheat from the chaff; and the industry needs them to be the advocate for the industry as whole, otherwise this great hobby will die if we don't continue to buy the new gear that keeps the manufacturers alive.
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I think some dynosaurs would qualify for nice home pets, but I just have no problem with their extinction. Once upon a time reviewers were the only way to find information about audio gear. Once they decided to not review anything "bad" they only became peddlers, and should be treated as such! Now is there anyone who would fork the cash for an expensive amplifier, just because some guy named Fremer liked it - remember, it's the same guy that loved the sound of the Zanden 5000 DAC ($15.500) that, to put it mildly, behaved worse than a $50 RadioShack player - it's their own business!
For me, honesty is the main attribute that I expect from reviewers: I do not give a shit if some "audio" companies go belly-up in the process: the realm of high-end is full of fraud, and if the FTC does not step in at least the reviewers should help! But no, they wouldn't do it: this would put an end to the perks trey are getting on a regular basis!
So yes, "bias" is not the proper term to use: try "corruption" and you'll get the full picture!
 
dallasjustice said:
If you feel the need to rely on someone else's opinion, I suggest you find a hand full of dealers you respect. Dealers have to put their money where their mouth is. Consequently, the good ones are far more trustworthy than the looters.
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Hmm, not sure how you read that in what I wrote. Saying quite the opposite in fact. It's like reading a Wine Spectator review. Is the wine fruity or dry, tannic or velvety smooth, bright or dark, etc. I read that description to guide my selections. But the score they give, 100 or 85, I ignore because that's their opinion. I may taste similar qualities as they describe, but I may give it a different score, my opinion. So I read reviews trying to extract the sonic qualities while ignoring the opinion part (the hyperbole).
 
socfan12 said:
Hmm, not sure how you read that in what I wrote. Saying quite the opposite in fact. It's like reading a Wine Spectator review. Is the wine fruity or dry, tannic or velvety smooth, bright or dark, etc. I read that description to guide my selections. But the score they give, 100 or 85, I ignore because that's their opinion. I may taste similar qualities as they describe, but I may give it a different score, my opinion. So I read reviews trying to extract the sonic qualities while ignoring the opinion part (the hyperbole).
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Allen,
I understand what you are saying. Reading reviews can be entertaining. My favorite parts of Stereophile can be the manufacturer response and the letters to the editor. Those can be the BEST parts of the magazine. For example, I read the Raven audio review of Dave's monoblocks. The measurement bombed. Normally when this happens, you see the manufacturer write a horse shit response that just highlights the problems mentioned trying to play if off. Whenever I read something like that, I think the manufacturer looks much worse since I don't put total stock in the measurements in the first place. Contrast that with the response Dave Thomson wrote to JA's measurements. That's a stand up dude! He took full responsibility and admitted he made a mistake. It's totally disarming to see that level or candor. It also exemplifies his professionalism.

Many times it's not what you do right that matters but rather how you respond when stuff doesn't go as planned. My understanding is that he will get another chance. After hearing them at LSAF last weekend, I know the next review will be a success.
Michael.
 
Dear Myles, please read the Stereophile review of the Wavac Sh-833 monoblocks ($350,000 / pair)
Wavac SH-833 monoblock power amplifier | Stereophile.com
including the measurement page and tell me:
1. Is Michael Fremer deaf?
2. Is Michael Fremer corrupt?
3. Does Wavac have any right to still be in business?
4. Should the FTC step in?
5. All of the above?

Well sorry, but I would not trust Mr. Fremer to give me the time of the day, much less to advise me on what sounds good or not!
 
iosiP said:
Dear Myles, please read the Stereophile review of the Wavac Sh-833 monoblocks ($350,000 / pair)
Wavac SH-833 monoblock power amplifier | Stereophile.com
including the measurement page and tell me:
1. Is Michael Fremer deaf?
2. Is Michael Fremer corrupt?
3. Does Wavac have any right to still be in business?
4. Should the FTC step in?
5. All of the above?

Well sorry, but I would not trust Mr. Fremer to give me the time of the day, much less to advise me on what sounds good or not!
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I wonder what the review would be if someone else set it up and he had no idea of the price or what he was listening to.
 
Gary, if you check (read) all the reviews of the Continuum Audio Labs Caliburn turntable ($160,000 with tonearm and stand) online and from the high-end audio mags; they are all pretty good (read excellent), in high majority average (99.99%).

The only negative is; the price.

EDIT: I don't know about the Wavac SH-833 mono amp though; I didn't check all the reviews, only that one from that link.
 
dallasjustice said:
Allen,
I understand what you are saying. Reading reviews can be entertaining. My favorite parts of Stereophile can be the manufacturer response and the letters to the editor. Those can be the BEST parts of the magazine. For example, I read the Raven audio review of Dave's monoblocks. The measurement bombed. Normally when this happens, you see the manufacturer write a horse shit response that just highlights the problems mentioned trying to play if off. Whenever I read something like that, I think the manufacturer looks much worse since I don't put total stock in the measurements in the first place. Contrast that with the response Dave Thomson wrote to JA's measurements. That's a stand up dude! He took full responsibility and admitted he made a mistake. It's totally disarming to see that level or candor. It also exemplifies his professionalism.

Many times it's not what you do right that matters but rather how you respond when stuff doesn't go as planned. My understanding is that he will get another chance. After hearing them at LSAF last weekend, I know the next review will be a success.
Michael.
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Dave from Raven Audio is a stand-up guy. I reviewed a preamp and a pair of monoblocks from Raven Audio that I previously posted a link to on this forum. I think Dave's products have something to say and deserve to be heard. If I didn't honestly feel that way, I would have said so. I didn't review the amps that Art in Stereophile did as I'm more of a hairy-chested push-pull kind of guy than I am a SET lover.

The bottom line is that reviewers either earn your trust over time or they don't. I'm a new reviewer and I'm under no delusions that people will automatically trust me and believe what I tell them. I try and do the best I can and hope that I continue to improve as I gain more experience.

Many of us don't live close to high-end stores and we have little more than reviews and attending shows to go on when we make purchasing decisions. I would argue that going to shows can give you less insight than reading multiple reviews of a product you are interested in by reviewers that spent time listening to the product in their reference system. The more reviewers that review a product, the more you can read what they say and get a feel for common opinions among the reviewers with regards to strengths and weaknesses of a given product.

It's more common at shows for rooms to sound bad than sound good. You might hit the room on the day the show opens and the room really sounds bad and by the next couple of days they have made adjustments and made the system sound much better, but you might not have had the time to check it out again. Imagine the pressure if you packed up your personal system and hauled it off to a hotel room and were expected to have it set up and sound great in a short period of time vice having a treated room at home that you spent a considerable amount of time dialing in the sound until you were happy with it. If you hear something sound great at a show, you should take note of it if it's something you are in the market for.
 
Pardon, but I really dont see the incentive to write good reviews for bad gear so you can get a discount on said bad gear. If a reviewer gets a piece of gear and it sounds like wet mud why would he want to buy it, even at a 70% discount? If a reviewer gets a piece of gear and loves it enough to buy it doesn't it stand to reason he will write a good review, lets not forget Fremer did spend $50,000 on his table, a deep discount for sure but not exactly chump change.

I have read in a couple of magazines over the years that the reason there are no bad reviews is because of limited print space, the editors choose to promote gear that they feel is worthy of their readers consideration not waste valuable pages bashing gear. Seems reasonable enough but it does give the impression that they only give good reviews.
 
I have heard that caliburn many times, and it is great IMO. I am sure he bought it because it was great.
That he got a good deal..well, I think we all wish we could get a great deal on this stuff, and I am sure alot of us do.
Also we all know they get accomodation pricing...don't we? I see nothing wrong with this, it is part of everyday business.

Now if he bought the ML 53's and told everyone how great they were to move product...that would be wrong.
In the end you try to find the reviewer that you trust. Usually the forums will mirror what the reviewer says, we all have ears.
If he used his position to sell less than favorable gear, eventually his credibility would be lost...and so his career.
 
There are two other important reasons why you will not see a bad review of gear. First, there really isn't any bad gear being produced these days. There is gear that should never be paired up together (a difficult load speaker with a low power stereo receiver). All reviewers will know that.

Second, I remember reading a column a few years ago where the writer/editor was addressing the "no bad review" issue. Print magazines were a bit gun shy after a Yachting Magazine was taken to court for giving a bad review and lost. I believe I read this in either Hi Fi News or Hi Fi Choice.
 
still-one said:
Second, I remember reading a column a few years ago where the writer/editor was addressing the "no bad review" issue. Print magazines were a bit gun shy after a Yachting Magazine was taken to court for giving a bad review and lost. I believe I read this in either Hi Fi News or Hi Fi Choice.
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So true, get a load of this poor lady that wrote a negative review about the poor customer service from a vendor she purchased something from Fined For Posting a Negative Review Online | KUTV.com

More: Hotel guests blackmailing owners with threat of negative reviews? - CNET

Amazon, fine print How Does A Negative Amazon Review Result In Threats Of A Lawsuit? ? Consumerist

So there are means out there to penalize a negative review, and the same could be said about audio gear if the manufacturer wanted to hide in the fine print of their documentation penalties for making negative comments about their merchandise.

So much for free speech in the US.
 
CPP said:
So true, get a load of this poor lady that wrote a negative review about the poor customer service from a vendor she purchased something from Fined For Posting a Negative Review Online | KUTV.com

More: Hotel guests blackmailing owners with threat of negative reviews? - CNET

Amazon, fine print How Does A Negative Amazon Review Result In Threats Of A Lawsuit? ? Consumerist

So there are means out there to penalize a negative review, and the same could be said about audio gear if the manufacturer wanted to hide in the fine print of their documentation penalties for making negative comments about their merchandise.

So much for free speech in the US.
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Black mail and libel aren't covered by the 1st Amendment. For example, I know the US Attorney's office in Dallas recently indicted a guy for Felony Blackmail because he was an "SEO Expert" doing "work" for a Dallas business. He said the business owed him money. The business didn't pay him so he threatened to ruin the business in social media if they didn't pay up. They did make several payments under similar style threats. This is a real problem now.
 
Hi Mike,

Welcome to the forum. Thank you for joining.

topround said:
I have heard that caliburn many times, and it is great IMO. I am sure he bought it because it was great.
That he got a good deal..well, I think we all wish we could get a great deal on this stuff, and I am sure alot of us do.
Also we all know they get accommodation pricing...don't we? I see nothing wrong with this, it is part of everyday business.

Now if he bought the ML 53's and told everyone how great they were to move product...that would be wrong.
In the end you try to find the reviewer that you trust. Usually the forums will mirror what the reviewer says, we all have ears.
If he used his position to sell less than favorable gear, eventually his credibility would be lost...and so his career.
Click to expand...
 
dallasjustice said:
Black mail and libel aren't covered by the 1st Amendment. For example, I know the US Attorney's office in Dallas recently indicted a guy for Felony Blackmail because he was an "SEO Expert" doing "work" for a Dallas business. He said the business owed him money. The business didn't pay him so he threatened to ruin the business in social media if they didn't pay up. They did make several payments under similar style threats. This is a real problem now.
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It's a amazing Dallas what is happening to our justice system, where you can sue someone for darn near anything these days.
 
CPP said:
So true, get a load of this poor lady that wrote a negative review about the poor customer service from a vendor she purchased something from Fined For Posting a Negative Review Online | KUTV.com

More: Hotel guests blackmailing owners with threat of negative reviews? - CNET

Amazon, fine print How Does A Negative Amazon Review Result In Threats Of A Lawsuit? ? Consumerist

So there are means out there to penalize a negative review, and the same could be said about audio gear if the manufacturer wanted to hide in the fine print of their documentation penalties for making negative comments about their merchandise.

So much for free speech in the US.
Click to expand...

Yes and do you remember the infamous lawsuit between Bose and Consumer Reports over a speaker review? Anyone who thinks we have a justice system is deluding themselves. Whoever has the most money has the last laugh.
 
CPP said:
So true, get a load of this poor lady that wrote a negative review about the poor customer service from a vendor she purchased something from Fined For Posting a Negative Review Online | KUTV.com

More: Hotel guests blackmailing owners with threat of negative reviews? - CNET

Amazon, fine print How Does A Negative Amazon Review Result In Threats Of A Lawsuit? ? Consumerist

So there are means out there to penalize a negative review, and the same could be said about audio gear if the manufacturer wanted to hide in the fine print of their documentation penalties for making negative comments about their merchandise.

So much for free speech in the US.
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Yes, this really bothers me. Now days if someone buys something that isn't up to snuff and writes anything even slightly negative to warn others, they get sued or worse. So now I guess next, safety warnings will be illegal. An inferior product is an inferior product and a good product is a good product, period. It doesn't matter if it's audio, video, dishwashers, cars, or even food or toilet paper.
There is bad and good across that spectrum. People should have the right to mention flaws if any equal to giving praise as well.
By the way, this has also reached reviews on customer service too which is notoriously flawed 99% of the time! So we can't say anything about that either.

Yes, you have the idiots out there that will write a bad review just because something didn't go their way or they just because they had to pay shipping or something or just don't like the name or something, but I think there are a few of us who know how to see through that.
Then there are those that do it for malice such as blackmail and whatnot, that's a whole different thing and not related.

This is designed to put a gag on everyone and sadly it's working. If I get an inferior product or service I will still risk it and say something if I feel the need, same holds true with a great product or service. (I usually speak with the company directly if it's a truely negative thing first. I don't write public reviews often though, just rare occasion and they are usually for something positive).
I would also think that if a company cares they would listen to the negatives and the positives to learn how they might improve their product. Problem is, most don't care, they just want units sold.
 
Advertising. Either the manufacturer being reviewed is also an advertiser, or the magazine is writing a positive review in hopes of getting them to advertise or I think most reviewers are allowed to buy the product at industry accommodation, hold it for a period of time and then can sell it and make some money on the side. All of those scenarios negate possibility for negative reviews.
 
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