Are audio reviewers biased or incredibly biased?

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Oh, but some of us already knew that; and it was mentioned in one of my previous links.

The table was $89,000, Mikey reviewed it, it went $61,000 up. ...Sweet!
And, anyone here saw Mikey's receipt? ...The real one, not a fabricated one.

Anyway, who truly cares? ...This is simply the world we live in; the good, with the bad.
What is priced fairly in this world? ...Most likely the stuff that you get for free at the Salvation Army. ;)
 
NorthStar said:
Oh, but some of us already knew that; and it was mentioned in one of my previous links.

The table was $89,000, Mikey reviewed it, it went $61,000 up. ...Sweet!
And, anyone here saw Mikey's receipt? ...The real one, not a fabricated one.

Anyway, who truly cares? ...This is simply the world we live in; the good, with the bad.
What is priced fairly in this world? ...Most likely the stuff that you get for free at the Salvation Army. ;)
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Would you like his cancelled check too?

And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China much less the OP?
 
mep said:
The cold hard fact is that every audiophile has biases and reviewers are no different. Some people are biased towards digital, others are biased towards analog, and some people like both. Some people are biased toward tubes, others are biased towards SS. Some people are biased towards box speakers, others are biased towards planers and stats. Reviewers are no different and if you have read them for any length of time, their biases are not hidden.
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But what makes the best reviewers the best reviewers is their ability to remove their individual biases and review the DUT for what it is.
 
XV-1 said:
Never let the facts get in the way of a good headline.

The Caliburn table and stand was not 150k, it was 89k when Fremer reviewed.
Continuum Audio Labs Caliburn turntable & Cobra tonearm Specifications | Stereophile.com

It was an incredible leap of faith on Fremer's part to pay 50k for a brand new turntable from a brand new unknown company. He loved the table and still does.

If that is an incredibly biased reviewer - give me that biased view every time.

Guys like Valin who never pay for anything as everything is on short term loan are more of a fundamental problem with bias. They love whatever reference gear is lent, til they ask for him to pay for it or return it.
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Would you be OK with a long term loan if it was disclosed? For instance, many years ago, I wanted to do some reviews of low powered SET amps and my speakers weren't suitable. A manufacturer was very kind to leave their speakers on long term loan until I completed this project.

Also, do people not think that magazines have standards that they hold their writers to and will fire them for any infraction of the rules?

No, I think the original word bias is more appropriate than corrupt. I really don't think that Valin loves whatever reference gear is lent him. I think the more fundamental problem is that a reviewer - at least of JV's stature - has to have the cream of the crop around to complete reviews. Not to mention it's handy to have other components around as I suggested earlier to try in combination with the DUT. For instance, it was useful for me to have a couple of phono sections or cartridges around to complete the review of the VPI table. That allowed me to gain a greater insight into the performance of the table and its neutrality for example.

The fundamental issue I think in reviewing is IDing what component in the chain is responsible for what. Take speakers for instance. Here a good or great speaker is like a magnifying glass over all the equipment in front of it. So in this case, are you hearing the speaker's colorations or the amplifiers, etc. So another amp or two doesn't hurt when trying to get a handle of the sound of component.
 
iosiP said:
Worse than an over-positive review is a useless review! Just try
MSB Technology Analog DAC D/A converter and Analog Power Base power supply | Stereophile.com
and tell me what is your conclusion on the equipment under scrutiny?
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Now that is a review that is FAR from useless. It explains the peculiarities of the product, then compares it to the Benchmark DAC. The conclusion is that the Analog DAC was superior to just about any DAC he's ever used. Says clearly right there in the last two paragraphs!

What did you find ambiguous about it?

Alexandre
 
I think most people don't realize how much duplicate high end gear you need to do high end reviews.

Some equipment the reviewer might not like but because it has a great dealer network the product might be the perfect item to compare things to. That way more readers can hear something to compare to. This gets expensive for products you might not even like. For example, Wilson has a great dealer network and can be heard by most people around the world. That makes them a great product to compare to. Even if a reviewer might not have them as a personal favorite and wouldn't have bought otherwise. Being a great company and having a great dealer network has some downfalls.
 
I read the post and my personal take on a Audio Reviewer is like a reviewer of anything, they are just there are a "guide" and you need to read between the lines. Someone looking for a speaker thinks wow, cool I can add that to my AVR, but forgets that the reviewer is hooking that speaker to a $30,000 tube amp and another $20,000 pre-amp and using a ultra high end $6,000 CD player and using $2,000 speaker cable etc.. etc... etc... What's good for the reviewer and how that reviewer test and comments on his test might not be "good for you".
 
XV-1 said:
Never let the facts get in the way of a good headline.

The Caliburn table and stand was not 150k, it was 89k when Fremer reviewed.
Continuum Audio Labs Caliburn turntable & Cobra tonearm Specifications | Stereophile.com

It was an incredible leap of faith on Fremer's part to pay 50k for a brand new turntable from a brand new unknown company. He loved the table and still does.

If that is an incredibly biased reviewer - give me that biased view every time.

Guys like Valin who never pay for anything as everything is on short term loan are more of a fundamental problem with bias. They love whatever reference gear is lent, til they ask for him to pay for it or return it.
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That backs up what I've said. It boils down to: So what, Micheal Fremer is a reviewer, he got a deal on a table that was most likely offered to him the he did not try to use influence asking for a deal up front. How is that any different from the deals any of us have gotten? I do think that Mr Fremer has some integrity to him and as has been pointed out already, there is much worse out there. So he loves the table, just as I would want for myself and anyone else would want for themselves, let him enjoy it in peace.

It is true there are some "professional" reviewers out there are are "corrupt", but there are ones with integrity as well who also get deals on gear honestly even with "professional courtesy" shall we say? So what? This whole thing started because Mr Fremer revealed a deal he got on a radio show. Like I said, perhaps he should have not done so, but he was also between a rock and a hard place that if he avoided the question that also would have made him look cagey. He made the decision to be transparent and it was the right choice in my mind. Shows he is not hiding. So because he got a deal on a table everybody jumps all over it.
Ok, so the price went up a few thousand because of Mr. Fremer's review in the minds of many. However, it also begs the question: Why blame him? It wasn't his decision. That one is solely on the maker of the table and nothing to do with Mr Fremer. The maker decided to do it with suspect timing giving the appearance that Mr Fremer had influence over the decision in some people's minds. A mistake on the part of the maker whether they realize it or not. Mr Fremer (or any other reviewer) doesn't set pricing. The maker makes that decision and yes, they can base it on a review even though they really shouldn't, but unfortunately the reviewer can't say anything about it.
 
CPP said:
I read the post and my personal take on a Audio Reviewer is like a reviewer of anything, they are just there are a "guide" and you need to read between the lines. Someone looking for a speaker thinks wow, cool I can add that to my AVR, but forgets that the reviewer is hooking that speaker to a $30,000 tube amp and another $20,000 pre-amp and using a ultra high end $6,000 CD player and using $2,000 speaker cable etc.. etc... etc... What's good for the reviewer and how that reviewer test and comments on his test might not be "good for you".
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This is true with all audio. Any piece will always sound and perform differently in ones own system in one's own room. My personal method: Homework first reading the facts, check you own gear, talk to owners of said piece if possible, find authorized dealer and demo if possible, make purchase, then read reviews for giggles. That's just me though.
 
wow !!! i just read all 7 pages of this. very interesting and good discussion.
reviewers are like anyone else in any other industry, good ones and bad ones. some are nice guys some are horses asses. some are honest and some are not. some are arrogant jerks and some are real and down to earth people.
as far as he OP , i have no issue wih fremer buying a table which was $89k for $50k. or even if it was a $150k table for $50k, because that means he likes it. and to each his own on how good of a deal he can get. now if he got that deal worked out before he reviewed it, and i could never know those circumstances , then i would have a problem with it.
to me id never want the $150k super table anyway id rather have 2 or 3 different tables with loads of cartridges and arms to choose from.
just like id never want the $80k amps, but i would spend $80k on several amps.
 
asiufy said:
Now that is a review that is FAR from useless. It explains the peculiarities of the product, then compares it to the Benchmark DAC. The conclusion is that the Analog DAC was superior to just about any DAC he's ever used. Says clearly right there in the last two paragraphs!

What did you find ambiguous about it?

Alexandre
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I would have preferred a comparison between the balanced/unbalanced outputs, and also one between the MSB set to output a fixed level (and using a pre) and the same using a variable level. I think the main questions the potential buyer faces are if the DAC volume control is good enough to get rid of a good preamp ("good", as in a pre usually included in systems that can take benefit of a $7,000+ DAC) and which trade-off is better if the rest of the system is fully balanced: using the "native" SE outputs or the "artificial" XLR outputs.
Also, since I have never listened to the DACs used for comparison (and even do not know how their price compares to that of the MSB), the only valid information I could gather is from the Measurements page!
Sorry for being candid but I really expected more than a nice rant about Bee Gees and tiny buttons with a green/red glow.

P.S. I do not need a reviewer to tell me about the internal build: the photos and user manual are in the public domanin (you can download them from the MSB site). Also I don't care if the reviewer liked the look of a switch. Just tell me if it has a positive feel and did not come loose after intensive use: you are an audio reviewer, not an interior decorator!
 
Myles B. Astor said:
Would you like his cancelled check too?
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Ah didn't think of that one. :)

And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China much less the OP?
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Price fixing? ;)

Myles B. Astor said:
But what makes the best reviewers the best reviewers is their ability to remove their individual biases and review the DUT for what it is.
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MusicDirector said:
There it is right there! ^ *thumbs up*
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Right on! I agree with you Eric; if all the audio reviewers were thinking like Myles, and putting their good thoughts towards their practice I am sure that our audio world would be a much better place than it already is. ...For the great benefit of all. :)
...All audio lovers.
 
veindoc said:
Heard a tidbit that intrigued me today when a bonafide guest on the Howard Stern show admitted to being a true Audiophile and audio writer/reviewer. He unabashedly admitted he had a $150,000 Continuum Turntable. Howard quickly asked did you pay that and he said as he is "in the business" as a reviewer he did not pay that price. Quickly Howard quipped 75 k but less than a minute later he admitted it was more like 50k.
My point of this discussion is that this type of relationship oozes of profound pressure to write a very favorably biased review. I think all of us know reviews should be taken with a kilogram of
Salt but a 2/3rd price reduction on equipment is reprehensible and violates all integrity of the magazine. I know my ears , AS members and not pro reviewers will serve me better in the future. BTW it was Michael Fremer but I am sure the vast majority of his cohorts have similar deals.

Nick
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Nick, do you have a transcription, a text, a script, a video, a link of that r.a.d.i.o./TV interview?
 
MusicDirector said:
This is true with all audio. Any piece will always sound and perform differently in ones own system in one's own room. My personal method: Homework first reading the facts, check you own gear, talk to owners of said piece if possible, find authorized dealer and demo if possible, make purchase, then read reviews for giggles. That's just me though.
Click to expand...

That homework you mention, it seems it never gets old with any purchase. Regarding the demo, I have been rather lucky being able to demo gear in my home before my purchase, a big plus before that credit card is used. :satisfying:
 
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