2 channel system and subs.

I use subs in stereo mode using a Arcam AVR 600.You would never pick the subs were there as the blend in so well with the mains.With the room treatments I use I dont get the BOOM BOOM of the bass but rather the SLAP of fast bass!!
StumpH subs x3.JPG
 
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There were many issues with the Arcam AVR600 and HDMI handshake.This would have been due to the fact it was built to cover all components New and Old .I myself have never had a issue as the only time I used HDMI was when I would connect a small LCD screen to access the Arcam menu.I use the Arcam for music only.If the Arcam AVR 750 had multi channel input for surround music I would upgrade .
Cheers Stump
 
stump said:
I use subs in stereo mode using a Arcam AVR 600.You would never pick the subs were there as the blend in so well with the mains.With the room treatments I use I dont get the BOOM BOOM of the bass but rather the SLAP of fast bass!!
Stump
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Same here. I just had a pair of JL F113 subs professionally integrated on front and back walls using a DEQX HDP-4 and REW. They are each mono and cross over the main R/L and sub at 47hz, 24db/octave. I use a DEQX HDP-4 as active crossover. The bass is very FAST. It's really hard to understand what really good quality and fast bass sounds like unless you hear it. It's a BIG upgrade, IMO. I agree that this cannot be done without an active crossover/delay. The problem with most subs in a 2CH system is there is not the proper time and phase alignment with the main R/L channels. In my system, you would not be able to find the subs in the room with your eyes closed and you would not know the subs are even there unless you saw them. That's the way to do it, IMO.

Michael.
 
Michael - I am in agreement. I am looking at the DEQX Mate + JL Audio F112 (2). My experiment last night with a friends sub-crossover and my Seaton Submersives running as a fun experiment convinced me.
 
a big +1

Don't bother for 2 ch if you don't go active. It will never integrate musically, maybe by specs and measurements but not musically.

dallasjustice said:
Same here. I just had a pair of JL F113 subs professionally integrated on front and back walls using a DEQX HDP-4 and REW. They are each mono and cross over the main R/L and sub at 47hz, 24db/octave. I use a DEQX HDP-4 as active crossover. The bass is very FAST. It's really hard to understand what really good quality and fast bass sounds like unless you hear it. It's a BIG upgrade, IMO. I agree that this cannot be done without an active crossover/delay. The problem with most subs in a 2CH system is there is not the proper time and phase alignment with the main R/L channels. In my system, you would not be able to find the subs in the room with your eyes closed and you would not know the subs are even there unless you saw them. That's the way to do it, IMO.

Michael.
Click to expand...
 
Almost every time I re -read a technical posting by me, I just face palm. Today, I think subs are all about the timing of the signal. Does it match the main speakers (and center)? Do I have a smooth response?

Thanks for the DEQX HDP-4 and REW tid-bit I am reading all about it..
 
o0OBillO0o said:
Almost every time I re -read a technical posting by me, I just face palm. Today, I think subs are all about the timing of the signal. Does it match the main speakers (and center)? Do I have a smooth response?

Thanks for the DEQX HDP-4 and REW tid-bit I am reading all about it..
Click to expand...

Center? It balances the subs (1 or 2) and front L/R, but understanding is that it also does phase correction, timing coherence, etc. for the mains (separate), then the subs (separate), then together.


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I use a Martin Logan sub with my Magnepan 1.6's. I have it set so the Maggies are full range which is down to 45hz and the sub is cut off at 45hz. the transition is seamless and you would be hard pressed to tell that there was a sub except for very bass heavy music. The ML sub does a great job of keeping up with the Maggies, nice tight, fast and non boomy bass.

I think people run into problems with subs in a 2ch set up when the subs volume is too high, the cross over is set to high and improper placement like near a corner. The sub should not be heard except on bass heavy music and then it should sound seamless and natural.
 
Mike, I the center comment was an aside, since like Mechnutt caught with his reference to integrating not only subs to two speakers but to a home theater!

There are two different goals, Music and Movies. You can merge them but I find through empirical research that subwoofers are really best for home theater or bass limited main speakers. In my upcoming living room, I will have both physically in the room. However Music will be played on 2 speakers, amp, preamp- only, and Movies on ann AV Receiver with 5-9 speakers with the subwoofers. I may change my mind.

It's no easy task integrating subs for movies music in 2 Channel.
 
I think that you can integrate a sub for 2ch music and for HT. You would need to get a sub with a remote control so that you can change the settings of the sub for each. I think there are subs remotes that have a memory for settings. Of course sub placement still comes into play. You will also need a source switcher to connect the sub to an AVR and 2ch preamp unless your preamp has a HT bypass.

Digital Drive PLUS 12 Inch Subwoofer - Subwoofers
 
o0OBillO0o said:
It's no easy task integrating subs for movies music in 2 Channel.
Click to expand...

I don't think it is all that hard. Here's my method that has served me well for about 20 years. Start with the sub's volume control off and the crossover control at approximately 10 hz above the -3db point of your stereo speaker pair. Choose some music with what you would view as average bass content and play it. Raise the volume control until you can just barely hear the sub supporting the speakers. Now go to the crossover control and adjust the mid bass rise you created to its lowest level. That's your starting point. Tweak from there after you have accustomed yourself to the new sound with different recordings. There aren't many fuil range speakers that won't benefit from some subwoofer support.

Typing on this site is laborious. It doesn't keep up with my typing speed - continually drops letters. Is there something I can disable to put some spark in it?
 
fmw said:
Typing on this site is laborious. It doesn't keep up with my typing speed - continually drops letters. Is there something I can disable to put some spark in it?
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are you using a Mac or Windows PC?
 
Well done. Changing browsers solved the problem Pretty sure the site was interacting with the IE spell checker. It works fine with the firefox browser.
 
fmw said:
Well done. Changing browsers solved the problem Pretty sure the site was interacting with the IE spell checker. It works fine with the firefox browser.
Click to expand...

IE gives more problems then any other browser I've encountered. It has always been buggy IMO. I like Chrome the best myself.


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I like IE because it is the only browser with one click printing. That saves me some time when I print orders in the morning. It works well with other Vbulletin forums. Firefox will work fine for this site.
 
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