Lumin, Leedh’ing the way

Anwo said:
No, when I play non MQA music or listen to TuneIn radio the volume control also does not function.
Click to expand...

So is it correct the volume control does not function on U1 Mini when connected to an USB Dac but not playing MQA music?
 
Audiofan57 said:
Andik777: I wanted to make sure I understood your comment item # 3. Are you saying that although treble is now smoother, you are hearing at times less bass Impact as compared to before the firmware upgrade?
Click to expand...


After installing V13 the treble is softer and the bass is present but does not rumble as before, it is more controlled.
 
gabweb said:
Because I have a preamp (Luxman C900) I don’t use the Leedh feature
and the volume is fixed at maximum.
So the change is in the new firmware and not only when using the Leedh control

PS: live in Israel but I was born in Buenos Aires
nací y crecí en villa Urquiza y mi familia vive ahí
Un saludo
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if you use a preamplifier, turn on the Leedh volume (leave it at 80 - 90 for example) and test the sound.

In this forum we are a group of friends from a forum in Argentina,
(Soniq, Fer1000, Mati-Drum and myself) we meet 2 or 3 times a month to eat, chat and enjoy the music, when you are in Buenos Aires you will be welcome to participate in a meeting. :wave:Regards.
 
From our product manager: (Note: the engineer who took the shortcut is not me.)

===================================

The story of LUMIN and Leedh Processing Volume Control


We have a long relationship with Joël of 6Moons reviewer. We see each other during each year Munich show. During High End show 2018. Joël kept bugging me with this new end-of-the-world revolutionary new Volume Control algorithm, Leedh Processing! Frankly I was not that interested at that time. But Joël was raving about it so I kept it in mind.

In 2018 Sep, we had a tour visiting many dealers in Europe. We were in Paris and visited Joël setup in his home. Joël brought along the inventor of Leedh Processing and gave us a demo using their evaluation system. The difference was night and day IMO! Joël said he compared to many software and hardware (pre-amp) volume control and nothing came close.

But my teams were not that convinced. We audiophile all have very different taste! So the development was stalled a bit. I want to push this feature ASAP. But our engineers said from a technical point of view, it is nothing special. Just another way to do volume calculation!

And there was the cost issue! It's not free! Another big Hi-Fi brand charge a premium for this feature upgrade! We had discussed how to market to users. In theory we can setup a system to charge for this new feature. So the development stalled more.

Eventually, I said cut the crap and just do it! So we had a test version by the end of last year. Joël tried the test firmware with position feedback. It's certainly better than the original volume control in LUMIN, but there was still something not right. Leedh Processing party went to Joël's setup and did some measurement and found some volume adjustment were out of specs. Turned out our engineer took some shortcut, because that was easier (to integrate with our existing data flow) and the result "should" be the same!

So we re-did the whole thing from the ground up! After 6 months of hard work (to implement Leedh Processing on our whole LUMIN lineup), everyone is happy now!

According to our engineers, if you really study all the document from Leedh Processing web links, it's possible to work out the algorithm on your own (Sorry Leedh Processing party!). But we need to pay respect to where's credit due. So we pay license to Leedh Processing and offer free upgrade to all LUMIN users.

Enjoy the music!
smile.png


X1 & Amp

===================================

IMO, use cases of Leedh Processing volume control are:

For Analog output
- normally use pre-amp or integrated amp volume control, but also very tempted to use LUMIN volume for quick adjust with the convenience. Before Leedh Processing, it's not preferable. Now we can have our cake and eat it without any ill effect.

- set pre-amp or integrated amp to unity gain (or at a fixed gain position), or use pre-amp/integrated amp "by-pass" input, then control LUMIN volume with Leedh Processing.

* if your pre-amp has no "by-pass" input, and you want to connect LUMIN player directly to the power amp, you may consider add a simple audio switch device like this:
https://www.audio “science” review/forum/index.php?threads/nobsound-3-in-1-out-xlr-audio-switch-review.11062/
And connect both pre-amp and LUMIN to the switch, then to the power amp.

- direct connect LUMIN to power amp and control LUMIN volume with Leedh Processing.

For Digital output
- before Leedh Processing, user is advised to NOT use volume control in LUMIN. Now it's free to use with Leedh Processing. User can try which way do they prefer.

The theory of Leedh Processing is to avoid too many bit of information. Because many least significant bits will be lose in DAC conversion, hence Leedh Processing try to use as little (number of) bit as possible to represent volume value, so that when the audio data reach DAC, many least significant bits are already at zero value, then the bit truncation in DAC conversion doesn't matter and the integrity of audio information is retained (lossless).

These are the 2 very different approach toward volume control calculation. Many bits (64bit for example) approach aims for accuracy (but some data will be lost in DAC conversion), while Leedh Processing approach aim for exactness (use as little bit as possible for an exact volume number).

The proof is in the listening! And it seems by actual listening, most people prefer the sound of Leedh Processing!

OK, I'll shut up now!
smile.png
 
wklie said:
If you're using Lumin A1 (or T1 or S1 or X1) connecting both XLR and RCA simultaneously will degrade the sound quality.
Click to expand...

Dear Peter

I was thinking to connect my A1 in this way...

Option 1: From A1 --> XLR output to my Preamplifiera McIntosh C2600
Option 2: From A1 --> RCA output to my Power Amp McInsoth C302

I think it will be good for Option 1 to use Leedh Vol passing through my Preamplifier enabling me to use Bass or Trebble controls.

For Option 2 think it will be good to directly connect from my A1 to Power Amp avoiding Preamp just using Leedh Vol.

Regretfully after reading your comment that "connecting both XLR and RCA simulatneously will degrade sound quality" I do not know what to do right now.

Could you give me some advice..?

On the other hand I also have Option 3: because my Preamp has the possibility to assign an RCA input as a "bypass mode" but in this way I will need to have again both XLR and RCA output connection simultaneously at the same time too.

I will be waiting for your advice in order to understand if these options are ok or if really XLR and RCA simultaneously connecting degrade soo much the sound that makes it imposible to use or a bad connection method.

Many thanks,
 
Please try option 1 and 2 separately, and see which sounds better to you. As for the degradation, you will have to try it yourself and hear whether it is significant or insignificant in your setup.
 
From Lumin X1 user PM at volume 100:
I worried that our source (Spotify) might not be good enough to reveal any difference. As things turned out, I was wrong.

We both heard an improvement in overall clarity. It's most noticeable in the midrange. There is more "presence" as if a veil had been lifted. (Less noise?) Bass notes might be a bit better differentiated. The stereo image is definitely bigger (height, width, depth). The system "sings" as if all connections had been cleaned and tightened.
Click to expand...
 
From Lumin T2 user: LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player - Page 102 - Networking, Networked Audio, and Streaming - Audiophile Style

I recently upgraded my T2 from firmware V12.0 to 13.0 and am convinced that there’s some divine intervention going on with the new firmware ☺ My T2 is connected directly to Purifi based amplification and speakers. Distortion is exceptionally low across my entire audio chain allowing it to resolve detail to a high level. I was already impressed by the performance of the T2 prior to the firmware upgrade but V13.0 with Leedh active has taken it up a notch, particularly when playing music at low to mid volumes (via Roon). The difference is not night and day since the T2 was already exceptional but the improved transparency is, nonetheless, very evident to me.
Click to expand...
 
Anwo said:
So is it correct the volume control does not function on U1 Mini when connected to an USB Dac but not playing MQA music?
Click to expand...

A fix for U1 MINI is now available for your USB DAC in a new firmware 13.0a.
 
From Lumin U1 MINI user: Lumin T2 upgrade LPS - 第2頁 - 兩聲道音響討論區 - Hiendy.com 影音俱樂部 - Powered by Discuz!
I have followed your advice and turn off the auto ref and leave the dB as 0 without adjusted and higher or lower. Basically bypass the pre amp function of the RME and use it as a pure dac only. At the same time I leave Lumin volume control to On and adjusted it to 95/100. On the integrated amp side I basically turn the volume up to the point that I think it’s reasonable to listen not super loud or super low. Then I started to control the volume by using the Lumin app.

Now the sound quality was dramatically different than what I had mentioned when I first did the quick test. The soundstage is now much wider and vocal sounds much more analogue, instrument doesn’t sound dull and it sounds very analytical and musical.
Click to expand...
 
This is an evaluation of Lumin X1 Leedh Processing Volume by Wesley Miaw of Neko Audio LLC:
I strongly prefer the new firmware with Leedh Processing Volume. There is less blurriness / quicker decay and less masking of sounds across the entire audible spectrum. The overall presentation is more balanced (more midrange presence compared to the old firmware)—I suspect because there is less distortion which was creating more noticeable additional energy in the bass and treble. With better detail retrieval and clarity, it is much easier to understand vocals and to hear minute details that were previously hidden.

That being said, I can imagine some people who do not listen to those things wondering where the bass went, having become used to or to expect more bass presence at the expense of accuracy and precision. And maybe also feeling like there’s less “air” because the treble has been cleaned up.

Sounds are more realistic with the new firmware.

My process was to listen to a minute or two from each track of my test playlist, sequentially, using the old firmware 12. I did this twice, to get acclimated to the old firmware sound and ensure it wasn’t just listening to a track a second time that was changing what I heard.

I then switched to the new firmware with Leedh Processing Volume and listened to each track again, sequentially, for a minute or two. Then switched back to the old firmware, and finally again to the new firmware as a final confirmation.

Lumin X1 -> Lumin AMP -> Magico M2. The volume was set at 55/100 the entire time. The main listening position is about 9’ from the speakers, arranged so my ears are on-axis with the tweeters. The top of the seat back is below my ears to minimize immediate reflections. Room is heavily treated so reflections are minimized. Rear surface is a blackout curtain about 5’ away from the main listening position.

Here is my test playlist. I use these tracks because they highlight / focus on specific things, and can reveal weaknesses.

Weight of the World / 壊レタ世界ノ歌
河野万里奈 NieR:Automata Original Soundtrack

神様のいうとおり
いしわたり淳治 & 砂原良徳 + やくしまるえつこ 神様のいうとおり

Cups (Pitch Perfect's “When I'm Gone”) (Pop Version)
Anna Kendrick Ultimate Pitch Perfect

ラビリンス (Album Mix)
MONDO GROSSO 何度でも新しく生まれる

1.618
BT This Binary Universe

The Demon God
Joe Hisaishi Princess Mononoke

Madder
Groove Armada Lovebox

Teardrop
Massive Attack Collected

Highly Strung
Orianthi Believe

goodblue
school food punishment amp-reflection

Force [Live]
Superfly Force

Prokofiev: Piano Concerto #2 In G Minor, Op. 16 - 3. Intermezzo: Allegro Moderato
Yuja Wang; Gustavo Dudamel: Simón Bolívar Symphony Orchestra Of Venezuela Rachmaninov: Piano Concerto #3; Prokofiev: Piano Concerto #2

기억 (Original Mix)
윤하 Someday

意味/無/ジュニーク・ニコール
SQUARE ENIX NieR:Automata Original Soundtrack

片翼の天使
植松伸夫 Distant Worlds: music from FINAL FANTASY

Magic Hour
Ahn Trio Lullaby For My Favourite Insomniac
Click to expand...
 
I’m still not getting it so I need it dumbed down.
1) can I unplug my bryston pre........and only use the Lumin mini (as a pre amp I’m guessing) volume to my Dac, and from my dac XLR outputs to my power amp inputs?
2) Do I need my Bryston pre for anything I only use the lumin as my source.

thanks, Mike
 
I have a similar question. Since I already have my Classe Sigma SSP in digital bypass mode (when using the Lumin), and volume now set as pass through (again, only when using the Lumin to take advantage of Leedh), is my Classe now useless when the Lumin is in play? Reason I ask is I have a fairly expensive power cord and power conditioner on the Classe. I do, however, also use the Classe for 5.1 movies, concerts, and TV. As I spend 80% of the tine with 2 channel music, would I be better served to use my after market power cord and PC on the Lumin instead of the Classe processor?
 
schmidtmike76 said:
I’m still not getting it so I need it dumbed down.
1) can I unplug my bryston pre........and only use the Lumin mini (as a pre amp I’m guessing) volume to my Dac, and from my dac XLR outputs to my power amp inputs?
2) Do I need my Bryston pre for anything I only use the lumin as my source.
Click to expand...

1. Yes, please try it and see if it sounds better or worse. Remember to start at a very low Lumin volume before playback.
2. No, you don't need the pre if you find bypassing the pre sounds better. If you like the SQ from the pre better, keep it.
 
Audiofan57 said:
I have a similar question. Since I already have my Classe Sigma SSP in digital bypass mode (when using the Lumin), and volume now set as pass through (again, only when using the Lumin to take advantage of Leedh), is my Classe now useless when the Lumin is in play?
Click to expand...

If it sounds better than the Classe volume, then it's probably not needed in the chain for Lumin. As for your other reconfiguration options, you will need to experiment to find out the impact to SQ, if any.
 
From a Lumin U1 MINI user:
I bypassed Mytek's volume and used the Mini's volume. What a great feature to have! Not only is it very convenient, but it also sounds fantastic. Great resolution and no loss of SQ in general. If anything, I would say that with Leedh enabled, the system sounds great, and equally as dynamic, also at low volumes!!

This is the best digital volume control I have encountered! If I had not 2 analogue sources connected to my Manhattan II, I would definitely use the Mini's Leedh volume control all the time.
Click to expand...
 
From a Lumin U1 MINI user: LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player - Page 104 - Networking, Networked Audio, and Streaming - Audiophile Style

Leedh digital volume has raised my system performance significantly. Overall clarity is very noticeably improved. Bass has much better ‘form’ and relationship with the overall frequency response. There is great life and rhythmic vitality in a natural unforced way without unwanted price paid. [Max] Volume is at 100% in settings and my amp pre volume set much higher than normal, and with the app circular Volume set to 60 I can listen comfortably down the hallway in the next room. Even thus removed from the system the improvements are clearly audible.
Click to expand...
 
From a Lumin X1 user: LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player - Page 104 - Networking, Networked Audio, and Streaming - Audiophile Style

go directly to the front L/R monos directly. This change has enhanced my listening pleasure more than I could have imagined.
...

I've always thought that every preamplifier, line stage, etc. in existence, regardless of how good it is, has a sonic signature of its own, and I am closer to the "Lumin sound" than I was able to achieve in the past. I am particularly pleased with the noticeably increased "three-dimensionality" of the sound stage that the Lumin provides.

Finally, Leedh processing is also providing benefits over the standard volume control in the Lumin that I am thoroughly enjoying.
Click to expand...
 
From a Lumin user: LUMIN firmware update: Version 13.0 (release date June 2nd 2020) - Network Audio - PS Audio
The LEEDH Processing technology is a game changer - great natural sounding music. Some may find that there is no need for a preamp. In my system I use my LTA MZ3 preamp because of the tonal quality it adds to the music. I set the volume controls of my DS DAC and MZ3 to their highest level and control volume using the LUMIN. The canon shots on the 1812 Overture are the clearest I’ve ever heard them.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top