Why I couldn't listen to the Wilsons

Lefisc

Lefisc

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Long Island, New York
I have a few stories I’d love to tell also. When you tell a bunch of bad stories all at once it sounds like you had nothing but bad luck, but my stories are spread out over a couple of decades.

For example, I went with friend, nearly 20 years ago to by a Sony CD Player for him in Westchester NY> Once in the store I saw they had the Wilson Audio Music Monoliths that sold for $150,000. They were listening to it in a glass enclosed room.

I asked if while I was there if I could listen to those speakers. The dealer then said he had just gotten in the Krell CD player, $11,000, wouldn’t we want that instead of the $500 Sony. My friend said no, and we asked to listen to the Sony.

After listening to it, he went over to buy it. I asked the dealer again if I can listen to the speakers. He then said “Are you buying the Krell or the Sony.” My friend said “The Sony.” He then said, “Then you can’t listen to the speakers.”

I nudged my friend at we left without buying anything. I want to shop at stores that actually make me feel that they want me there!

To this day I refer to this incident as “The Silence of the Wamms.”

(Hey, I am just:wacko: trying to get my 10 posts in so I can put up pictures)
 
Unfortunately, a lot of high end audio dealers suffer from this type of arrogance. All you have to do is look at the dwindling numbers of bricks and mortar high-end audio dealers and you realize that with the combination of factors, like the downturn in the economy, the rise of the internet, the ubiquity of music on the fly (iPod, iPhone, etc...), the rise (and fall) of home theater craze, and stories like yours of shoddy customer service, have all played a part in making the high-end audio dealer a thing of the past. Those that have survived and thrived despite all the secular challenges to the industry have done so because they have put the focus on serving the customer first (and that is true of any business in any industry).
 
Lefisc said:
I have a few stories I’d love to tell also. When you tell a bunch of bad stories all at once it sounds like you had nothing but bad luck, but my stories are spread out over a couple of decades.

For example, I went with friend, nearly 20 years ago to by a Sony CD Player for him in Westchester NY> Once in the store I saw they had the Wilson Audio Music Monoliths that sold for $150,000. They were listening to it in a glass enclosed room.

I asked if while I was there if I could listen to those speakers. The dealer then said he had just gotten in the Krell CD player, $11,000, wouldn’t we want that instead of the $500 Sony. My friend said no, and we asked to listen to the Sony.

After listening to it, he went over to buy it. I asked the dealer again if I can listen to the speakers. He then said “Are you buying the Krell or the Sony.” My friend said “The Sony.” He then said, “Then you can’t listen to the speakers.”

I nudged my friend at we left without buying anything. I want to shop at stores that actually make me feel that they want me there!

To this day I refer to this incident as “The Silence of the Wamms.”

(Hey, I am just:wacko: trying to get my 10 posts in so I can put up pictures)
Click to expand...



:weird: sad indeed
 
It seems as though there are far too many B&M dealers like that. Growing up in Toronto, I was lucky to have a number of high end audio shops around, with great service and plenty of selection.

Locally here in Florida, there is a dealer in the Tampa area who could have made a pretty penny off me over the years, but despite my efforts (and even some purchases including two pairs of speakers), his arrogance costs him. I'm certainly not alone, as several in my local audiophile society have expressed the same discontent. It has been interesting to watch him abandon two channel in favor of Home Theater, only to realize HT is struggling even worse than 2 channel. He now carries low end 2 channel stuff and a hodge podge of HT stuff. Now he's moving heavy into "life style" stuff. Whatever that is.

10 years ago, I drooled over his two channel gear, today, what he carries, wouldn't be of any interest to me. The last time in his store, I quietly walked around, didn't say too much and probably by the way I was dressed (casual shorts and a T-shirt), it was near impossible to get anyone to help me. I ended up getting one of the young sales people (after waiting for 10 minutes at "reception"). It was interesting how he went about things, making incorrect assumptions, left, right and center. When I asked to hear a particular pair of speakers, the young sales rep became head of the audio inquisition. Grilling me on budget, sources, amps, preamps. I didn't want to disclose that information, but he was almost insistent before be would give me a demo. I finally got a half ass demo of these particular speakers. He couldn't be bothered to switch anything around, so he drove them with a low level 5 channel amp, a moderate level preamp and an ipod! I guess he thought I wouldn't know the difference or that I was too stupid to realize it.

Contrast that with LMC Home Entertainment in Phoenix who I visited several times during my trip last month. The owner quickly gauged I was a two channel guy and steered me away from his HT section. I could tell, he shared the enthusiasm, the passion, and didn't give two hoots about selling something to me (which in turn is probably why his dealership is one of the tops in the entire country!). He offered me a soda, and talked to me like I was his long lost audiophile buddy. In fact, by the way he was talking, I was racking my brain trying to figure out if I had met him before, been in his store before....or what? Nope. He was just excited to show me things. He would say things like, "oh, I just hooked up the new Burnester music server to the Futuras, you have to hear it!" OK, I thought, I'm in! He truly understood that people like to buy, they don't like being sold to. I thoroughly enjoyed the experience of a great two channel B&M store - again.
 
Dealers don't get that customers are first.
I treat all my clients the same and make them feel like a million dollar buyer.

Maybe is the passion of audio that I like to share the most or the long need I had when I was
a buyer to have a dealer to make my wishes come true.

:) your Dominican Santa perhaps ?
 
I have to say, I must have been lucky during my audiophile journey, but many stores have treat me pretty well, including Soundex, a 2 story, 22 room audiophile candy store (talking Wilsons, Krell, Levinson, ARC, Classe, etc.). It's only the New York city stores where I've had less than a warm welcome. Even recently, despite looking fairly business like, I had the same inquisition at a NYC retailer that Mike had 20 twenty years ago. You'd think in this economy things would be different...:what:
 
Lefisc said:
I asked if while I was there if I could listen to those speakers. The dealer then said he had just gotten in the Krell CD player, $11,000, wouldn’t we want that instead of the $500 Sony. My friend said no, and we asked to listen to the Sony.
Click to expand...

That is quite a salesman.

Customer: I would like the $500 Sony.
Salesman: For only $10,500 more you can get the new Krell.
Customer: No thanks.

I wonder what Krell thought they had 20 years ago with an $11,000 CD player.
 
highEndguy said:
Dealers don't get that customers are first.
I treat all my clients the same and make them feel like a million dollar buyer.

Maybe is the passion of audio that I like to share the most or the long need I had when I was
a buyer to have a dealer to make my wishes come true.

:) your Dominican Santa perhaps ?
Click to expand...

You my friend, get it. Your passion is all you need. The gear will sell itself. Show me that you are "one of us" and I'm in. Try to sell me, and I'm out.
 
Well I heard that krell player at the Stereophile audio show 20 years ago. This is just my opinion and the opinion of a friend I went with who was a musician . I always like to go to stereo shows with people who know music. Krell At that time was known for making very good amplifiers. But they did not do well was make preamplifiers and Source components. But a CD player of this price was making some waves at the stereo show. We went into hear it. They first played a selection from a record and then from this CD player. Without a doubt the record was far more musical. The CD player Had a harsh even shrill high-end and it had a case in the background. The stringed instruments, especially when playing the high notes, were indistinguishable from the horns they play at the same scale. Without a doubt it sounded poor. However when told the price people loved it. Krell Has markedly improved. This is especially true since the year 2000. In fact I get their cipher CD player this week.
Now this is just my opinion. I have spoken to the people from Krell and see that they understood what their products were. They did not want to color them or artificially change the sound on the disc .So their Staff work very hard to give an accurate sound with the most detail. It was their going after the detail of the high end which no other manufacturer was doing at the time that led to the shrillness I heard. their cds Now are among the best. It just wasn't true 20 years ago. Finally $10,000 then it's close to 20,000 now.

We don't like to admit it but it usually takes 10 years for any new technology to really get good. This was true with CD players. It wasn't until the beginning of Of this millennium that the digital sound became competitive with the analog sounds
 
Mike, I really appreciated your story in the third paragraph because that sort of thing has happened to me. As silly as it sounds, I feel better knowing it has happened to other people.

The first time was at a stereo show.(I was dressed much better than you, I had a sweatshirt!!!!) and went hear the B and O speakers. I got a similar interrogation but didn’t, when asked, remember the right number of the Levenson amp that I had. He absolutely refused to play the speakers for me. He said that he didn’t believe I had Levinson equipment.

The second time, I went to hear the Revels and was having a good time with the dealer. He then asked me what Surround was I using and said the ML 502. He said that those were not out yet. I said that I just got them last month. He said they were not out yet and just walked away, never giving me the price or anything and treated me as if I was lying.

Finally, I called and made an appointment to listen to the Revels at a store, 80 miles away, but near a friend. I mentioned it was important to hear them on the Krell amps he also sold.

Yet, when I came in with my jeans and sweatshirt I guess, I was ignored for nearly half an hour. After many attempts, they just handed me some pamphlets. I would have left, but my friend was meeting me there. Things changed when I went to my car to get my glasses and they saw it was a Lexus! Then they became nice. Well almost.

End of story: They wouldn’t connect the speakers to a Krell, they had it connected to a McIntosh amp. Then he said I could NOT buy the new black speakers I wanted, I had to take his in house rosewood ones. He was still an active dealer because he said he could get me a new center channel (Revel voice II).
 
Lefisc said:
Mike, I really appreciated your story in the third paragraph because that sort of thing has happened to me. As silly as it sounds, I feel better knowing it has happened to other people.

The first time was at a stereo show.(I was dressed much better than you, I had a sweatshirt!!!!) and went hear the B and O speakers. I got a similar interrogation but didn’t, when asked, remember the right number of the Levenson amp that I had. He absolutely refused to play the speakers for me. He said that he didn’t believe I had Levinson equipment.

The second time, I went to hear the Revels and was having a good time with the dealer. He then asked me what Surround was I using and said the ML 502. He said that those were not out yet. I said that I just got them last month. He said they were not out yet and just walked away, never giving me the price or anything and treated me as if I was lying.

Finally, I called and made an appointment to listen to the Revels at a store, 80 miles away, but near a friend. I mentioned it was important to hear them on the Krell amps he also sold.

Yet, when I came in with my jeans and sweatshirt I guess, I was ignored for nearly half an hour. After many attempts, they just handed me some pamphlets. I would have left, but my friend was meeting me there. Things changed when I went to my car to get my glasses and they saw it was a Lexus! Then they became nice. Well almost.

End of story: They wouldn’t connect the speakers to a Krell, they had it connected to a McIntosh amp. Then he said I could NOT buy the new black speakers I wanted, I had to take his in house rosewood ones. He was still an active dealer because he said he could get me a new center channel (Revel voice II).
Click to expand...

That is nothing at all like the red-carpet treatment I get at Definitive Audio in Bellevue, WA. Anyone that lives around Seattle in this hobby knows Definitive well, and I have never heard a story like that from anyone. I wear crummy clothes in there all the time and they don't care. They'll hook up anything for me. I spent an entire day in their demo room listening to Wilsons with my electronics.
 
2fastdriving said:
That is nothing at all like the red-carpet treatment I get at Definitive Audio in Bellevue, WA. Anyone that lives around Seattle in this hobby knows Definitive well, and I have never heard a story like that from anyone. I wear crummy clothes in there all the time and they don't care. They'll hook up anything for me. I spent an entire day in their demo room listening to Wilsons with my electronics.
Click to expand...

The guys at Definitive are First Class all the way (As most of our dealers are)! It is sad to hear stories like the ones posted here. All customers walking into a high end store should be treated with respect. They did what all dealers try to get people to do everyday - walk through the front door!

I learned at a very young age not to judge people based on their appearance. My dad told me a a scenario of someone dressed in shorts and a tshirt, and they turned out to be a multimillionaire. Stores should never judge people - especially based on dress.

Deb
 
Lildebs said:
The guys at Definitive are First Class all the way (As most of our dealers are)! It is sad to hear stories like the ones posted here. All customers walking into a high end store should be treated with respect. They did what all dealers try to get people to do everyday - walk through the front door!

I learned at a very young age not to judge people based on their appearance. My dad told me a a scenario of someone dressed in shorts and a tshirt, and they turned out to be a multimillionaire. Stores should never judge people - especially based on dress.

Deb
Click to expand...

100% with you.
The real millionaires don't like to be
Treated different and most of the time
they want to blend dressing comfortable
 
Being a NYer, I've had some of those moments of arrogance in this area. My worst moment was probably at a dealer on Long Island. I was on a casual search to hear options to eventually replace my B&W N803s. I sat down in their listening room and got the interrogation from the owner. It quickly went bad when I said I had the B&Ws and really liked their sound. OMG, it was like I said I loved Bose or used a clock radio to listen to music. He chastised me, told me that he "used" to be a B&W dealer "back when they were good", and proceeded to bash everything about B&W for the next 15 minutes until I couldn't take it anymore and argued back that what was important was what I LIKED, not what he liked. it actually started to get heated. Fortunately another sales person stepped in and, when the owner was out of earshot, apologized and actually let me listen to some speakers. I can't tell you how turned off I was, and still am when a dealer bashes products they don't carry.

Another story at another NY dealer revolves around their constant need to tell you every detail of the product instead of letting you listen. The guy in this case was a nice person, but so caught up in his sales pitch about the build quality and details that I finally had to just say " can I please just listen?"

Sorry to go off on a tangent here, but Hi end dealers that are still left standing need to adapt their selling practices and be more inclusive, engaging and embracing, especially of those that may not yet be able to afford their best gear. I couldn't nearly afford what I have now when I walked into that LI dealer, but he could have eventually sold me most of what I have now if he made me feel welcome. He lost over 30k in sales just on me! Educate and embrace new customers. Start them with modest equipment. Take the iPod or Bose listener and show them the possibilities of improving sound, first within the same price range, then a step or two up. Once you've hooked them, they will, like many of us, always want to improve, which means a steady stream of future business.

As for the industry as a whole, I truly believe the hi end has no idea how to market outside of their niche buyer or how to expand its base, and they are killing themselves by staying within the ever-narrowing audiophile community. Awareness/volume efforts like Krell doing car audio for Acura are few and far between.

That's my rant. I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. :panic:
 
PS- this thread might be better placed under General Audio Discussion. It's a great topic not limited to Wilson enthusiasts.
 
highEndguy said:
Dealers don't get that customers are first.
I treat all my clients the same and make them feel like a million dollar buyer.

Maybe is the passion of audio that I like to share the most or the long need I had when I was
a buyer to have a dealer to make my wishes come true.

:) your Dominican Santa perhaps ?
Click to expand...
You have a passion for music and that is all you need
Angel
 
Boy, do I have to agree with Jeff.

Before I just read his post, honest to gosh, I was going to type a post saying that this may be a huge NEW YORK phenomenon. I too live on Long Island and have had EXACTLY the same experiences, Sadly though, when I talk to my friends they have had it too. But not just with audio, but with furniture, cars, clothes, repairs etc. NY is a harsh place to live sometimes.


  1. One dealer asked me what I had and then told me I was stupid. I should ONLY have, of course what he sells.
  2. Twice I had a dealer YELL at me. First, on Long Island, I went to a store that just starting carrying Levenson equipment. I was looking , then for the new 40. When I told him what I had, he asked, he yelled at me for not buying it at his store! But, I told him he wasn’t selling them 5 years previous when I bought them.
  3. Similar story: I bought the Revel Salon IIs, the Revel Voice II and stand, Transparent speaker wires and interconnects AND a Pioneer 9 Blu Ray all at once from a dealer. When he delivered them, and saw my other equipment, he went off like crazy and then raised his quoted price by $2,500. He would have been my permanent dealer! I don’t get it! Do you know how much money that was and he yelled at me. (I bought ALL of it before I even met him)

There is one thing I do that drives the dealers I know and like crazy and they have grown to accept it. I buy the individual products I like. So the great dealer I now have, who sold me the Krell 707 does not sell Oppo. Rather than taking what he has in stock and likes, I buy the Oppo.

Of course, the Oppo and Krell dealers didn’t have the sub-woofers I wanted……

So I have a Pioneer Elite Plasma TV from one dealer in the bedroom, hooked up to a Marantz 8002 receiver from the other guy. They joke about it and if it bothers them, they never let me see it. So I bought my Video screen from one of them and the projector from the other. But they know I am a serious buyer, I don’t give them a hard time and it works out well.

Next I’ll tell you my favorite story
 
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