Two new Lumin Network Music Players released today

Mike said:
That being said - here is my personal take on things. The Lumin A1 is the player to get over the S1 - for now. Why? The A1 is the original (the one I have) and uses the terrifically musical Wolfson WM8741 DAC chips. The new S1, which does handle double-DSD (DSD 5.6mhz) uses the ESS SABRE 9018 Chip. I've personally never been a huge fan of SABRE DAC chips.....but others love them....so YMMV.

Lastly, the A1 WILL be upgradeable to the S1 should Double DSD take off or users decide to go that route for whatever reason.
Click to expand...

LOL, the never ending quest for incremental improvements. It was your comment above that got me off the fence and go for the A1 instead of waiting for the S1.

No regrets, really. What the other users here have said about it is true. There is a certain way that the A1 deals with details and nuances that is illuminating :). There is a lot of new existing information that I did not (and was not able) to hear before. It really allows for a better insight and re-discovery of my existing music collection.

If Lumin is not making the S1 power supply available separately, then perhaps the next step would be the KL PSU, although someone who has heard both says the S1 PSU is better.
 
pal55 said:
Top of the line S1 uses Sabre chips - isn't it what audiophiles want? The first one was too cheap for many to consider it an "audiophile" high-end player (even though it sounded better than most), and it didn't do double-rate DSD. So the guys from Lumin did what market/customers wanted them to - a new model, one that sports "audiophile" DAC chips and does double-rate DSD, and now it cost enough to be considered "high end" product :-) And yet - you're complaning.
Click to expand...

Nobody is complaining about the chipsets used. We are talking about the price increase. As someone already mentioned, the ESS chips are like $50 a piece. Probably even less than that in OEM.

But let's even assume they are $50. 4x $50 = $200. Now deduct from that the price of two Wolfson chips (~$60) that have been used on the cheaper A1: $200 - $60 = $140 - that is the difference in BOM.

Standard BOM to retail ratio in this industry is 15-20%. $140 BOM price increase should translate into $700-$950 retail price increase. And yet, the price went up by $8000 ! That is 10x more than it should. And here is the problem.

Another problem are the constant price increases. The Lumin A1 started at $3k, then quickly went up to $4k. Most rave reviews appeared when it was like $5.5k, and now it is ... $7.2k.
 
Mike said:
Like I said in my CES report, the A1 remains the sweet spot - unless, you're just dying to hear all 13 of those double DSD albums. IMHO, the Wolfson DAC chips in the A1 are sonically superior to the SABRE ones in the S1. That has been my experience with all SABRE DAC chips. The only reason Lumin is using SABRE chips in the S1 is because they handle double DSD (apparently having a DSD capable network music player wasn't enough for some, they wanted double DSD). That being said, I'll withhold final judgement until I can do an A1 vs S1 shootout.

And for a real value, check out the T1.

My advice is for people to stop fretting over the price of the S1 and just buy an A1 and start hearing just how good digital music can sound.
Click to expand...

Or just buy the T1 which is pretty much a A1 without the thicker casing...:D
 
Elberoth said:
Nobody is complaining about the chipsets used. We are talking about the price increase. As someone already mentioned, the ESS chips are like $50 a piece. Probably even less than that in OEM.

But let's even assume they are $50. 4x $50 = $200. Now deduct from that the price of two Wolfson chips (~$60) that have been used on the cheaper A1: $200 - $60 = $140 - that is the difference in BOM.

Standard BOM to retail ratio in this industry is 15-20%. $140 BOM price increase should translate into $700-$950 retail price increase. And yet, the price went up by $8000 ! That is 10x more than it should. And here is the problem.

Another problem are the constant price increases. The Lumin A1 started at $3k, then quickly went up to $4k. Most rave reviews appeared when it was like $5.5k, and now it is ... $7.2k.
Click to expand...

The original price was no longer sustainable when they decided to go the traditional distributor/dealer route instead of manufacturer direct. Not sure why people find this hard to believe and accept. I keep hearing the same old "but it used to be $X". True! But the product wasn't selling because no one could hear it at a dealers. So they changed their model.

As for the S1, it's the same old same old IMO. The audiophile community wasn't taking Lumin serious with a sub-$10k product. Now they have a appropriately snooty priced product and people are bitching. Guess you can't win.

IMO - $9200 would have been a great price for the S1. That being said, I haven't heard it - so I may very well feel it is worth more than double the A1's price - but I highly doubt it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
CPP said:
Its like we were typing at the same time LOL
Click to expand...

True! The T1 vs a DAC at the same price will be the screaming good deal when you figure you get the same good parts as the A1 and you save on not having to have some expensive blankety blank PC computer and software to buy and deal with. Malware, viruses, and all the other PC nonsense have no place in a audio system IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Mike said:
As for the S1, it's the same old same old IMO. The audiophile community wasn't taking Lumin serious with a sub-$10k product. Now they have a appropriately snooty priced product and people are bitching. Guess you can't win.
Click to expand...

The local dealer said as much. Some prospective customers were not prepared to consider the A1 because it was too "cheap", regardless of its sound quality. In their minds, without a 5 figure price tag, it is not good enough.
 
nfnc said:
The local dealer said as much. Some prospective customers were not prepared to consider the A1 because it was too "cheap", regardless of its sound quality. In their minds, without a 5 figure price tag, it is not good enough.
Click to expand...

I heard the same thing over and over again. Yet, when friends brought their DAC's over (including the DAC2X), they all went away admitting the Lumin was a superior overall performer. It isn't perfect by any means, but it has beat out all comers - so far.

I think we are starting to see more companies go away from DAC & Mac and towards network music players. If memory serves me correct, I believe the new CH Precision is a streamer/network music player, but does also offer some more traditional DAC features. But the point is, there is a trend. I've also been in contact with a certain manufacturer who told me a network music player is next up for them.

IMO - network music players are just superior. Initial setup takes a little patience - but I will put the Lumin A1 up against any computer/software + DAC costing a total of $7200 - all day long.
 
nfnc said:
The local dealer said as much. Some prospective customers were not prepared to consider the A1 because it was too "cheap", regardless of its sound quality. In their minds, without a 5 figure price tag, it is not good enough.
Click to expand...

I just don't get it, I don't get that kind of people's mentality.

There are some great digital DAC/Music servers from $1,000 to $5,000 and maybe someone is missing a very pleasant sailing boat ride somewhere.
Yes, features that we like, build & part quality, and particularly sound that we love. ...Easy access, operation, quick music finding, and even suggestions made according to the type of music we like to listen to.

Me, I want a Music/Discovery server. One that is not afraid of exploring the world music scene and in high-res (DSD X and 352kHz/32-bit). ...DAC integrated, of course (so you can use it with any other playback source). ...Freedom and Discovery.

Just my own two cents, without first-hand listening experience on all the digital music servers of the world, and irregardless of price. Price shouldn't be part of the equation but reality takes care of that all by itself. Man has no control but on his own disposable income, and that at the end means no more than what it truly is; the financial mechanism of audio delight in the business world we live in. ...And all that fun jazz. :)
 
Mike said:
I heard the same thing over and over again. Yet, when friends brought their DAC's over (including the DAC2X), they all went away admitting the Lumin was a superior overall performer. It isn't perfect by any means, but it has beat out all comers - so far.

I think we are starting to see more companies go away from DAC & Mac and towards network music players. If memory serves me correct, I believe the new CH Precision is a streamer/network music player, but does also offer some more traditional DAC features. But the point is, there is a trend. I've also been in contact with a certain manufacturer who told me a network music player is next up for them.

IMO - network music players are just superior. Initial setup takes a little patience - but I will put the Lumin A1 up against any computer/software + DAC costing a total of $7200 - all day long.
Click to expand...

Interesting "compatible" observation by Alan Taffel: Comparing SACD to a DSD Download: A Follow-Up Report | The Absolute Sound
 
Interesting Charles and no surprise. I ran my own tests. I don't care what PC you use (Mac or Windows or some CAPS or E, A, B or Z machine) or what USB cable you use (free one that comes with your printer or a $1000 one from Company X) - the weak link is the computer and the USB cable. DAC's and Mac's are inferior to network music players. Not many battled the digital demons like I did (over 20 DACS, dozens of USB CABLES, Mac, Windows, CAPS, whatever) - they all left me disliking my digital.

Now no more....

This article is no surprise to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I am curious......in an implementation like the Lumin what type of connection is made from the chip that processes your music files to the internal DAC. I am thinking it would have to be some variation of a USB cable, no? Or maybe I am missing the whole picture!
 
Elescher said:
I am curious......in an implementation like the Lumin what type of connection is made from the chip that processes your music files to the internal DAC. I am thinking it would have to be some variation of a USB cable, no? Or maybe I am missing the whole picture!
Click to expand...

It's all on the same board and he's certainly not using a cable which was designed for printers and other peripherals! :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
nfnc said:
Just a teaser...

Good comments about Kenneth Lau's PSU for Lumin though.
Click to expand...

I didn't get that from 6 Moons partial review. What I drew from partial review is acknowledgement that DIY power supplies have been available for Lumin A1 and Lumin provide a more sophisticated power supply for their S1. Reviewer left any improvements wrought by S1 and/or DIY power supplies for we-shall-see review follow up.
 
Different take, I guess. Quote from preview:

"Certain DIYers in Hong Kong had demonstrated significant audible improvements by attacking Lumïn's power supply. I was able to test and then acquire two upgrades over the stock A1 power supply from a true fanatic called Kenneth Lau who also builds external power supplies for other digital gear. Paying attention to these efforts, Lumïn have now endowed the S1 with a far more sophisticated power supply design which should boost the deck’s overall performance."

So, certain DIY PSUs demonstrate significant audible improvements over stock A1 PSU. Joel tested and must have liked the improvements enough to buy 2 versions of KL's PSU. Compared to the A1 PSU, the S1 PSU has been upgraded. How the S1 PSU compares to the KL PSU has been left unsaid, pending further reveals of the review. He has privately mentioned to me his initial impressions, and it would be interesting to see what his final findings will be (if he does make the comparison) once the full review is published.

Then again, all this discussion may be moot depending on Lumin's policy on what upgrades, if any, will be made available to existing A1 users.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top