To Switch or Not to Switch?

[Audioseduction]

1s and 0s or what? I don't stream. I listen to locally stored music files, so I don't worry about this. Now, when I look for new music to purchase, I sometimes stream music to see if I want to purchase it. I do have a fiber media converter between my wired access point and the music server.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

I can honestly say two things:

1) People need to stop asking others and go try it for themselves and make up their own minds. I did and it was very enlightening and changed my mind about the entire topic.

2) I value outlets thoughts on this topics such as Alpha Audio who use real measurements and try to tie them so SQ, yet I would never waste 10 seconds of time on any topics ASR is spreading its propaganda on.

 

[BendingWave]

I can honestly say two things:

1) People need to stop asking others and go try it for themselves and make up their own minds. I did and it was very enlightening and changed my mind about the entire topic.

2) I value outlets thoughts on this topics such as Alpha Audio who use real measurements and try to tie them so SQ, yet I would never waste 10 seconds of time on any topics ASR is spreading its propaganda on.

About a year ago I got a call from a very well respected friend and set up specialist about something he had tried with a well know reviewer in Europe. I am not much of a fan of selling "black boxes" but this is the way many new things come to me, suggestions from people I respect and trust, so I spoke with Nigel from Reiki and he gave me the opportunity to listen to his wares.
SOmetimes you don't know what you don't know until you know. I have had a lot of very happy clients who have experienced the same. Last week then came a more advanced, better constructed, new version of the Super Switch called the X model. I got one and before I could install it my client wanted it. He bought it and he told me that this was better all around the normal model, it cost more of course.
A network switch designed for audio can seriously help get rid of the things people blame on digital. Its not the format its noise and noise is prevalent in all forms, this is one you find out about once it is gone.
Just like you need to optimise any source to get the maximum result streaming needs to do the same.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

SOmetimes you don't know what you don't know until you know.

Hi Elliot - this is absolutely true.

I got tired of listening to people argue over digital cables and switches so I tried for myself and it was eye opening. I made up my own mind - I did not let others tell me what to think. Same with vibration control. I've tried over 20 different vibration products.

People need to stop relying on what others claim can or can't make a difference and try for themselves.

If someone tries something and they come to a conclusion I disagree with - I fully respect their opinion as it was their personal experience. When someone doesn't try and simply links to others telling them what to think (like and ASR video of the endless videos of nitwits claiming switches do nothing), I realize they are simply sheeple looking to be led.

On a side note, it's always interesting to see the actual systems and setups of the people who claim it makes no difference. Often their gear is so unresolving and their set up so poor almost nothing would make a difference.

 

[Mr Peabody]

1s and 0s or what? I don't stream. I listen to locally stored music files, so I don't worry about this. Now, when I look for new music to purchase, I sometimes stream music to see if I want to purchase it. I do have a fiber media converter between my wired access point and the music server.

The most over used and misunderstood buzz word is now "bit perfect". He spends time explaining there's no data loss due to protocols. I can agree with that. Technically the stream may be bit perfect but there is still noise. He basically denies jitter, I forget how he dismisses it, I don't agree with that. He measures his $1k DAC it has 113 dB dynamic range says it's below hearing and assumes his DAC is perfect, I guess all sound alike but maybe it's fine for what he is doing. He shows no difference from the output, I have no idea whether he is measuring correctly.

Coincidentally I have that same unit, the Ether Regen. First of all the manufactuer allows a 30 day trial with money back guarantee. So there's nothing to lose in trying one. I kept mine. The difference was not night and day as he claims audiophiles say, it was a good enough improvement I kept the unit. Although it's only $640.00 I'd as soon keep that in my pocket. It's a total insult to tell me I didn't hear the difference.

It would be interesting to get the manufacturer's response.

His final conclusion we hear a difference because when the new item is, inserted we listen harder. When I evaluate a new piece it comes in and out, if the item makes enough difference to warrant the price I buy it. That improvement had to be obvious and repeatable.

Most of us are not scientists so we have no idea whether this ASR guy knows what he is doing. When it comes to tweaks many of them often sound crazy as to what they do. We only have our ears to rely on. It's a shame someone gets convinced they can't trust theirs.


I mean who knew speaker isolation feet would do anything? I'm not even on a wood floor. The Stackaudio feet actually were nearly night and day, like I went up a model in the line or something.

If you don't trust yourself who are you going to trust?

There's also the possibility the unit won't make a difference in every system. I acknowledge that.

 

[BendingWave]

The most over used and misunderstood buzz word is now "bit perfect". He spends time explaining there's no data loss due to protocols. I can agree with that. Technically the stream may be bit perfect but there is still noise. He basically denies jitter, I forget how he dismisses it, I don't agree with that. He measures his $1k DAC it has 113 dB dynamic range says it's below hearing and assumes his DAC is perfect, I guess all sound alike but maybe it's fine for what he is doing. He shows no difference from the output, I have no idea whether he is measuring correctly.

Coincidentally I have that same unit, the Ether Regen. First of all the manufactuer allows a 30 day trial with money back guarantee. So there's nothing to lose in trying one. I kept mine. The difference was not night and day as he claims audiophiles say, it was a good enough improvement I kept the unit. Although it's only $640.00 I'd as soon keep that in my pocket. It's a total insult to tell me I didn't hear the difference.

It would be interesting to get the manufacturer's response.

His final conclusion we hear a difference because when the new item is, inserted we listen harder. When I evaluate a new piece it comes in and out, if the item makes enough difference to warrant the price I buy it. That improvement had to be obvious and repeatable.

Most of us are not scientists so we have no idea whether this ASR guy knows what he is doing. When it comes to tweaks many of them often sound crazy as to what they do. We only have our ears to rely on. It's a shame someone gets convinced they can't trust theirs.


I mean who knew speaker isolation feet would do anything? I'm not even on a wood floor. The Stackaudio feet actually were nearly night and day, like I went up a model in the line or something.

If you don't trust yourself who are you going to trust?

There's also the possibility the unit won't make a difference in every system. I acknowledge that.

the article is a perfect example of my Pizza Principle. These writers want to make everything simple and the same and there is a easy answer to every question by measuring it with numbers that don't tell the whole story but focus on one or two items other than listening.
Domino's, Papa John's, and Pizza hut, along with all frozen pizza at Publix or Whole foods is not John's on Bleeker, Or Frank Peppe and AH Beetz in New Haven but it is all called PIZZA

 

[JDC]

I mean who knew speaker isolation feet would do anything? I'm not even on a wood floor. The Stackaudio feet actually were nearly night and day, like I went up a model in the line or something.

I had a similar experience when I recently added Isoacoustics Gaia Neo feet to the speakers. In my case they are on a wood floor, with a pair of RELs with down firing passive 10" drivers right next to them, so I guess it makes sense. But like you say, it was night & day. - and for a nice change I didn't have to wait for anything to 'break in!'

 

[Feanor]

I can honestly say two things:

1) People need to stop asking others and go try it for themselves and make up their own minds. I did and it was very enlightening and changed my mind about the entire topic.

2) I value outlets thoughts on this topics such as Alpha Audio who use real measurements and try to tie them so SQ, yet I would never waste 10 seconds of time on any topics ASR is spreading its propaganda on.

In the first place you two comments contradict each other. If you advocate the people ought trust their own judgements ("ears"), then recommend a reviewer -- do you like this reviewer because they echo your own predispositions?

One thing I've learned from my 55 year involvement in hi-fi is that my ears really aren't all that trustworthy; OK, your experience may differ.

ASR is a site that offers objective measurements of many components; it also advocates for objective measurements. You may believe that measurements are the whole, part, or irrelevant. Amir has a position that measurements are at least a major port of the whole. I'd argue he has a right to his POV. ASR has far less to gain financially by its argument for objective measurement than makers and purveyors of high-priced equipment do by arguing for subject evaluation.

 

[Feanor]

...
His final conclusion we hear a difference because when the new item is, inserted we listen harder. When I evaluate a new piece it comes in and out, if the item makes enough difference to warrant the price I buy it. That improvement had to be obvious and repeatable.

Most of us are not scientists so we have no idea whether this ASR guy knows what he is doing. When it comes to tweaks many of them often sound crazy as to what they do. We only have our ears to rely on. It's a shame someone gets convinced they can't trust theirs.
...

Can we trust our ears? In the first place there's a lot more involved than out auditory canals, specifically our brains. Myriad bias affect what we, that is our ears & brain, perceive. I'll concede that I don't entirely trust my own "ears".

So for instance perhaps you've listen to the same recording on totally unchanged system and acknowledged to yourself that it sounded worse or better than the day before. In this sort of instance our mood, fatigue level, and opinions that we've heard in the meantime, etc. have modified our perception

 

[Michaels HiFi]

In the first place you two comments contradict each other. If you advocate the people ought trust their own judgements ("ears"), then recommend a reviewer -- do you like this reviewer because they echo your own predispositions?

One thing I've learned from my 55 year involvement in hi-fi is that my ears really aren't all that trustworthy; OK, your experience may differ.

ASR is a site that offers objective measurements of many components; it also advocates for objective measurements. You may believe that measurements are the whole, part, or irrelevant. Amir has a position that measurements are at least a major port of the whole. I'd argue he has a right to his POV. ASR has far less to gain financially by its argument for objective measurement than makers and purveyors of high-priced equipment do by arguing for subject evaluation.

Not contradictory.

I was trying to explain and may have not been successful I appreciate AA because they EXPLORE trying to find measurements that correlate with what they hear and further understand how they may align - vs. ASR who is just plain deaf.

I put ZERO value in anything any "reviewer" or anyone says about gear. Just as I tell people in my videos to put zero value on my opinion and go listen for themselves.

And "objective" measurements are rather meaningless. Every single accomplished engineer I know fully admits measurements are completely based on a variety of factors that can be made to look any way you'd like and are subject to a variety of factors that will affect what they show. So in essence, they are meaningless outside how that particular person chose to capture those measurements as that particular point in time.

 

[MontanaJoe]

the article is a perfect example of my Pizza Principle. These writers want to make everything simple and the same and there is a easy answer to every question by measuring it with numbers that don't tell the whole story but focus on one or two items other than listening.
Domino's, Papa John's, and Pizza hut, along with all frozen pizza at Publix or Whole foods is not John's on Bleeker, Or Frank Peppe and AH Beetz in New Haven but it is all called PIZZA

Seems like you are violating your own "Pizza Principle" by quoting the pizza icons as set by influencer and endorsed by the masses supporting that influencer, Portnoy, who DOES "make everything simple and the same" with his inane rankings, which of course, is #1 his preference, #2 what he has been told by others is the best and #3 what gets him clicks to monetize.

Other than his absurd "10 rating" of Monte's in Lynn, MA, which is, IMHO, was for reasons to help his locale, his favorites are basically pizza on a cracker, namely, Bar Pizza, his "charred nonsense" and his New Haven idiocy, which you and others seem to be influenced to believe by your post here and elsewhere.

Hysterically, this same influencer, who seems to be guiding you contrary to what you are defending, went to DiFara's on Ave J in Brooklyn, was served COLD slices of regular and Sicilian pies and stupidly, after one bite of each, said "yup worth the hype". I will tell you, I grew up on this pizza, it was me and my friends from 1968-1975 that helped Dominick stay in business, when most of the neighborhood liked Larry's on Ave M much better BUT because DiFara was in a more convenient hang out location, serendipitously he became the hang out spot and the more successful. Of course, the rest is history, when that midget, Bloomberg "declared it the best" in NYC and "yup, one bite of a cold slice" was swallowed by Portnoy's followers.

Further to the point, is he hyped up to a 9.3, Lucali's which is more like a Neapolitan pie that he so despises and denigrates with every bite, or his cracker on a pie at his overhyped rankings at John's (which YOU reference) or Ceres, or Luigis which is as much of a "Football Pie", albeit very good, which he never gives above mid 7s.

Point is you are endorsing, with your comparison, some arbitrary influencer who is artificially ruining some and pimping other pizza, locations based on his "simple and the same" criteria with his self-aggrandizing "char/undercarriage/flop/etc. BS, while invoking the "Pizza Principle", to critique the reviewers of gear.

 

[MontanaJoe]

Not contradictory.

I was trying to explain and may have not been successful I appreciate AA because they EXPLORE trying to find measurements that correlate with what they hear and further understand how they may align - vs. ASR who is just plain deaf.

I put ZERO value in anything any "reviewer" or anyone says about gear. Just as I tell people in my videos to put zero value on my opinion and go listen for themselves.

And "objective" measurements are rather meaningless. Every single accomplished engineer I know fully admits measurements are completely based on a variety of factors that can be made to look any way you'd like and are subject to a variety of factors that will affect what they show. So in essence, they are meaningless outside how that particular person chose to capture those measurements as that particular point in time.

EXACTLY.

Look, I have nothing against those who like "objective" measurements in aiding or determining their purchases. It is there $ and let them do with it what they want and let them make decision in any way they want.

However, when constructing any statistical evaluation, how you set your variables and how you measure them is usually predetermined based on the outcome THE INVESTIGATOR wants. In health care, this has been the scorn of most "studies", especially in the modern era or the desire to prove "disparities in healthcare" but I digress.

It seems that most "objectivists" are the most closed minded to ALL the variables that go into a total and unbiased evaluation of the product they claim makes no difference to an audio system.

From a personal standpoint, and one who approached the "switch" thing cautiously and skeptically, I noticed a noticeable difference in my system when I upgraded to a REIKI X switch and their power supply in addition to their JUNDO cable. The objectivists can laugh at my findings or choose their selective measurements to prove me wrong, ultimately, it is my $.

 

[JDC]

Seems like you are violating your own "Pizza Principle" by quoting the pizza icons as set by influencer and endorsed by the masses supporting that influencer, Portnoy, who DOES "make everything simple and the same" with his inane rankings, which of course, is #1 his preference, #2 what he has been told by others is the best and #3 what gets him clicks to monetize.

Other than his absurd "10 rating" of Monte's in Lynn, MA, which is, IMHO, was for reasons to help his locale, his favorites are basically pizza on a cracker, namely, Bar Pizza, his "charred nonsense" and his New Haven idiocy, which you and others seem to be influenced to believe by your post here and elsewhere.

Hysterically, this same influencer, who seems to be guiding you contrary to what you are defending, went to DiFara's on Ave J in Brooklyn, was served COLD slices of regular and Sicilian pies and stupidly, after one bite of each, said "yup worth the hype". I will tell you, I grew up on this pizza, it was me and my friends from 1968-1975 that helped Dominick stay in business, when most of the neighborhood liked Larry's on Ave M much better BUT because DiFara was in a more convenient hang out location, serendipitously he became the hang out spot and the more successful. Of course, the rest is history, when that midget, Bloomberg "declared it the best" in NYC and "yup, one bite of a cold slice" was swallowed by Portnoy's followers.

Further to the point, is he hyped up to a 9.3, Lucali's which is more like a Neapolitan pie that he so despises and denigrates with every bite, or his cracker on a pie at his overhyped rankings at John's (which YOU reference) or Ceres, or Luigis which is as much of a "Football Pie", albeit very good, which he never gives above mid 7s.

Point is you are endorsing, with your comparison, some arbitrary influencer who is artificially ruining some and pimping other pizza, locations based on his "simple and the same" criteria with his self-aggrandizing "char/undercarriage/flop/etc. BS, while invoking the "Pizza Principle", to critique the reviewers of gear.

@MontanaJoe (and the rest)
That was a great and passionate essay. But isn't it funny that we've all gone into pizza talk?
I'm so hungry that I think I'll get one tonight. Some simple thin crust Margarita that's available around here.

 

[BendingWave]

Seems like you are violating your own "Pizza Principle" by quoting the pizza icons as set by influencer and endorsed by the masses supporting that influencer, Portnoy, who DOES "make everything simple and the same" with his inane rankings, which of course, is #1 his preference, #2 what he has been told by others is the best and #3 what gets him clicks to monetize.

Other than his absurd "10 rating" of Monte's in Lynn, MA, which is, IMHO, was for reasons to help his locale, his favorites are basically pizza on a cracker, namely, Bar Pizza, his "charred nonsense" and his New Haven idiocy, which you and others seem to be influenced to believe by your post here and elsewhere.

Hysterically, this same influencer, who seems to be guiding you contrary to what you are defending, went to DiFara's on Ave J in Brooklyn, was served COLD slices of regular and Sicilian pies and stupidly, after one bite of each, said "yup worth the hype". I will tell you, I grew up on this pizza, it was me and my friends from 1968-1975 that helped Dominick stay in business, when most of the neighborhood liked Larry's on Ave M much better BUT because DiFara was in a more convenient hang out location, serendipitously he became the hang out spot and the more successful. Of course, the rest is history, when that midget, Bloomberg "declared it the best" in NYC and "yup, one bite of a cold slice" was swallowed by Portnoy's followers.

Further to the point, is he hyped up to a 9.3, Lucali's which is more like a Neapolitan pie that he so despises and denigrates with every bite, or his cracker on a pie at his overhyped rankings at John's (which YOU reference) or Ceres, or Luigis which is as much of a "Football Pie", albeit very good, which he never gives above mid 7s.

Point is you are endorsing, with your comparison, some arbitrary influencer who is artificially ruining some and pimping other pizza, locations based on his "simple and the same" criteria with his self-aggrandizing "char/undercarriage/flop/etc. BS, while invoking the "Pizza Principle", to critique the reviewers of gear.

and of course there is always someone on the forums that just has to take the whole thing way to seriously and to another subject as well.
Enjoy your cold slices and maybe if you have enough of them you might actually get my point. I dont think they have pizza in Kansas and maybe that is someone else's issue.

I do like NH pizza and Brooklyn Pizza and will tolerate other types as well since Pizza is the fuel of life and it is the best food to eat before listening LOL

 

[MontanaJoe]

@MontanaJoe (and the rest)
That was a great and passionate essay. But isn't it funny that we've all gone into pizza talk?
I'm so hungry that I think I'll get one tonight. Some simple thin crust Margarita that's available around here.

It is funny how the pizza thing has taken on a life of its own. LOL. Enjoy.

 

[MontanaJoe]

and of course there is always someone on the forums that just has to take the whole thing way to seriously and to another subject as well.
Enjoy your cold slices and maybe if you have enough of them you might actually get my point. I dont think they have pizza in Kansas and maybe that is someone else's issue.

I do like NH pizza and Brooklyn Pizza and will tolerate other types as well since Pizza is the fuel of life and it is the best food to eat before listening LOL

First of all, what you have in Boca, isn't New Haven pizza, so if that is your standard, please. And don't throw up to me some examples from 50 years ago. And yes, I have relatively recently had DiFara, prior to Domnick's demise, and it was as mediocre as I remember from much earlier years; despite Portnoy's comments when reviewing his non-charred, floppy, cheesy and cold slices, totally contrary to everything he claims he loves, DiFara slices.

Second, I get your point and why I used your argument against you when you chose to use the "Pizza Principle" (your words not mine) to make your point about the "simple and the same " when referencing reviewers regarding the topic being discussed. It appears you don't get the point of what you posted, but maybe you are just being jaded by your insatiable hunger for Boca Raton make believe pizza.

Kansas??

 

[BendingWave]

Yes Kansas isn't that where your foil is located? I know we aren't in Kansas anymore? I am not listening to Wichita Lineman either are you? Is there Pizza in Wichita? we know that Michael says its lousy in Texas, could this be the root cause of the hostilities? Maybe they need Pizza in the Gulf of Hormuz?
Maybe Pizza is the secret to a happy life?
Maybe Ill have it for lunch , there's a highly rated place I haven't tried down the street called How u doughin.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

@MontanaJoe (and the rest)
That was a great and passionate essay. But isn't it funny that we've all gone into pizza talk?
I'm so hungry that I think I'll get one tonight. Some simple thin crust Margarita that's available around here.

I LOVE pizza!

 

[Mr Peabody]

Can we trust our ears? In the first place there's a lot more involved than out auditory canals, specifically our brains. Myriad bias affect what we, that is our ears & brain, perceive. I'll concede that I don't entirely trust my own "ears".

So for instance perhaps you've listen to the same recording on totally unchanged system and acknowledged to yourself that it sounded worse or better than the day before. In this sort of instance our mood, fatigue level, and opinions that we've heard in the meantime, etc. have modified our perception

When I used to work in the business decades ago I noticed that home theater receivers had bettter specs on paper than McIntosh, I certainly knew to my ears I'd rather listen to McIntosh. I never paid much attention to specs anymore except for basic power ratings and such. We had a brand than raved about damping factor, to my ears the bass wasn't that much different compared to other brands we had.

ASR is hocking a product don't be fooled. He isn't doing that out of the goodness of his heart. He plays to that anti-audiophile craze and jealousy so many have. It's been so successful that now others are following in ASR foot steps. Headsty or whatever that site is, Peachtree, I'm sure there's others.

I listen to my system so I prefer to use my ears. If you are anyone else puts your system together based of paper that's your thing.

I trust Nelson Pass and others who stated they begin with measurements then listen to reach their goal. If you've watched the video of Michael Fremer touring Audio Research Gordon explains about choosing parts, talks about caps from two different companies with same specs yet sounded different. I'm not sure why it's so hard for some to accept everything cannot be measured. I at least accept measureing and listening go hand in hand. It's like the horse and carriage, you can't have one without the other, LOL

Pizza is like audio it's all subjective. Some make fun of "pizza on a cracker" but thin crust is a St. Louis thing and even one of the Olympic skater's who qualified in St. Louis became a big Imo's fan. Some people don't like Domino's, the one in my neighborhood is good and where I prefer to order from. There's better just not always the time.

 

[MontanaJoe]

Yes Kansas isn't that where your foil is located? I know we aren't in Kansas anymore? I am not listening to Wichita Lineman either are you? Is there Pizza in Wichita? we know that Michael says its lousy in Texas, could this be the root cause of the hostilities? Maybe they need Pizza in the Gulf of Hormuz?
Maybe Pizza is the secret to a happy life?
Maybe Ill have it for lunch , there's a highly rated place I haven't tried down the street called How u doughin.

Hey I’ve seen you eat. If you have it for lunch, please just leave some over for some other customers