The Power Amp is the bedrock of the system

Mike said:
The room/speaker synergy is most crucial. Some rooms just won’t work with some typology of speaker. Others are made for a particular typology of speaker. Controlled directivity, dipole, Omni, monopole, etc.
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This is so true. A friend who had a large room with high ceilings used Salon 2's and they always sounded great. Another friend bought Salon 2 and they just never approached the same SQ in is room. He even added the big 18" sub they had which helped some but I'm sure glad I heard the speakers in my first friend's room first or my opinion of them wouldn't be the same. Unfortunate dituation.

Not so long ago I heard my speakers require a large room. I have an open doorway in the back of the room that I think saved me. I think my speakers sound great in my room. Playing with placement helped a great deal. I do use room treatments which were like a tweak in my opinion it wasn't the earth shaking change people want to claim. In fact, if you don't get help or have the ability to hear what you are doing you can make things worse. It's like room treatments are the latest bandwagon. It's crazy I think the Auva footers made a larger improvement.

It amazes me how people don't understand the importance of the source. Like other components there can be a difference but sources are all close, there so good, blah blah. If any detail, sound quality is left at the source is just gone nothing downstream will allow that lost detail to be heard. A system needs to be balanced throughout. Your source needs to be good that signal needs to be maintained until it reaches your ears. It starts at the beginning though anything not extracted at the source is just never going to be heard. You may prefer to buy something else first but you simply can't skimp on your source.
 
Mr Peabody said:
This is so true. A friend who had a large room with high ceilings used Salon 2's and they always sounded great. Another friend bought Salon 2 and they just never approached the same SQ in is room. He even added the big 18" sub they had which helped some but I'm sure glad I heard the speakers in my first friend's room first or my opinion of them wouldn't be the same. Unfortunate dituation.

Not so long ago I heard my speakers require a large room. I have an open doorway in the back of the room that I think saved me. I think my speakers sound great in my room. Playing with placement helped a great deal. I do use room treatments which were like a tweak in my opinion it wasn't the earth shaking change people want to claim. In fact, if you don't get help or have the ability to hear what you are doing you can make things worse. It's like room treatments are the latest bandwagon. It's crazy I think the Auva footers made a larger improvement.

It amazes me how people don't understand the importance of the source. Like other components there can be a difference but sources are all close, there so good, blah blah. If any detail, sound quality is left at the source is just gone nothing downstream will allow that lost detail to be heard. A system needs to be balanced throughout. Your source needs to be good that signal needs to be maintained until it reaches your ears. It starts at the beginning though anything not extracted at the source is just never going to be heard. You may prefer to buy something else first but you simply can't skimp on your source.
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Caveat about room treatments and room. People’s claim about room treatments as with all things need to be assessed in the room they are in. Without treatments my current room sucked, with, it’s one of the best I have heard. My last listening room was large and its inherent nodes or lack thereof required much less treatment and additional treatment or even what I had could be interpreted as not earth shattering but just mild improvement beyond baseline

The point is, your experience and room doesn’t define all others just your particular circumstance.

But I agree, getting help is of paramount to obtaining the desired results and optimizing what your room is capable of. Too many think slapping stuff on a wall Willy Nilly is the answer
 
MontanaJoe said:
Caveat about room treatments and room. People’s claim about room treatments as with all things need to be assessed in the room they are in. Without treatments my current room sucked, with, it’s one of the best I have heard. My last listening room was large and its inherent nodes or lack thereof required much less treatment and additional treatment or even what I had could be interpreted as not earth shattering but just mild improvement beyond baseline

The point is, your experience and room doesn’t define all others just your particular circumstance.

But I agree, getting help is of paramount to obtaining the desired results and optimizing what your room is capable of. Too many think slapping stuff on a wall Willy Nilly is the answer
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Good point.
 
When I think of a component that is the bedrock of a system, I think of a component that you build a system around.

I would never build a system around a power amp. It just doesn’t make sense to me. First of all a power amp needs to work well with your speakers, and speakers depend on your room/WAF/your preference of presentation etc. Second it needs to have enough power to play your speakers loud enough for you most of the time, so again depends on what speakers you select. Also a power amp can never fix upstream components, so how is this a bedrock of a system.

That is not to say it’s not important. Everything is important, let’s face it, one bad component and it screws up a system. But the bedrock - I just don’t see it.
 
Mike said:
The room/speaker synergy is most crucial. Some rooms just won’t work with some typology of speaker. Others are made for a particular typology of speaker. Controlled directivity, dipole, Omni, monopole, etc.
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Spot on, and unusually I disagree with Ralph (Atmasphere) in this assessment.

Whatever amp or preamp you have, it will never rescue a speaker poorly chosen for the room it's placed in - and to a lesser extent your listening preferences. The No 1 important factor in my view is the choice of speaker TYPE to best suit the room. Then select the ideal speaker of that type and only then look exhaustively for the perfect amp for the chosen speakers. Amps vary so much less than speakers but there's always a good match available
 
MontanaJoe said:
Agree

Not be contemptuous but I would just rephrase your comment. There is really no very little success without the room.
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No worries. 90% of room problems have to do with bass and can be corrected with a Distributed Bass Array. But glass is a different matter...
Hear Here said:
Spot on, and unusually I disagree with Ralph (Atmasphere) in this assessment.

Whatever amp or preamp you have, it will never rescue a speaker poorly chosen for the room it's placed in - and to a lesser extent your listening preferences. The No 1 important factor in my view is the choice of speaker TYPE to best suit the room. Then select the ideal speaker of that type and only then look exhaustively for the perfect amp for the chosen speakers. Amps vary so much less than speakers but there's always a good match available
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I don't think we're in disagreement on this point! I spent a year looking for my next house simply because I wanted the room to work.
 
atmasphere said:
No worries. 90% of room problems have to do with bass and can be corrected with a Distributed Bass Array. But glass is a different matter...

I don't think we're in disagreement on this point! I spent a year looking for my next house simply because I wanted the room to work.
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Absolutely, any time we moved the next place had to be conducive to a reasonable hi fi set up.
 
All opinions are appreciated. I respect that those of you in the industry who have probably heard and set up more systems in the last year than I have in my life are far more qualified to set these priorities.

My Dad had a saying: "Some of us get older and wiser, and some of us just get older." Hopefully, listening to and learning from the pros will get me closer to the former camp....

The next time I go to upgrade anything in my system, I'll certainly have these ideas in the back of my head.
 
JCS123 said:
All opinions are appreciated. I respect that those of you in the industry who have probably heard and set up more systems in the last year than I have in my life are far more qualified to set these priorities.

My Dad had a saying: "Some of us get older and wiser, and some of us just get older." Hopefully, listening to and learning from the pros will get me closer to the former camp....

The next time I go to upgrade anything in my system, I'll certainly have these ideas in the back of my head.
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I remember reading Stereo Review back in the day and the shock of Julian Hirsch's article that all amps sound the same if not driven into distortion. I wasn't really into high end then, interested, but haven't owned anything others would consider high end, I didn't buy that then and i don't now.

You're welcome to your opinion same as those speakers first guys. I will say just pulling amps out of my system and putting something new in, even for audition, I've been surprised at just how much difference an amp can make. I may not agree it's the heart but I do feel it's often under estimated.
 
When we were looking at houses in Seattle, I was preparing myself for a tiny room. Room size, and location in the house could have required a reduction in my system. We preferred to be in walking distance to our daughter (we moved to provide babysitting for my granddaughter)

House choices were dependent on proximity, location, condition (100 year old homes mostly), size, and style. There was always some consideration given as to which room would be my music room. We decided against new construction, as those usually involve either 3 units build in a single home space, and very vertical, or were too expensive. Although we did not want to do much in the way of remodeling, I did upgrade the boiler for the radiant heating, and add some AC split units.

I was almost unprepared for the 17x21 foot room I was dealt in a very unique, eclectic, home that my wife fell in love with. After a year, I’m still working on it.
 
JCS123 said:
...and not the speakers. This has been my opinion for decades (and I l know that I'm in the minority here), but the Constellation Audio Statement Mono amp photo teaser in Mono and Stereo is one of the first times that I've ever seen a publication come out and say it….
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Here’s a thought experiment:

In your own room, connect your Constellation amplifier to the cheapest speakers you can find (even something as basic as an Amazon Echo-sized speaker or an inexpensive pair of bookshelf speakers). Listen for a while.

Then reverse the experiment. Connect a very inexpensive amplifier (like say $100 Fosi) to your regular speakers in the same room.

After you’ve done both, ask yourself which change had the greater impact on the sound.

To me, that illustrates the real hierarchy of importance. The speakers and the room dominate what you hear. Once an amplifier is competently designed and operating within its limits, improvements become comparatively small.

Large, beautifully built amplifiers certainly have their appeal, but today they are no longer a prerequisite for excellent sound.

One thing that has always puzzled me is that many magazine reviews devoted page after page to electronics while giving only passing mention to the room—arguably the single biggest contributor to what reaches our ears.

If I had to rank the factors by their audible impact in a well-functioning system, it would be:

Room → Speakers → Source/DSP → Amplifier (assuming competent design and adequate power).

Others may rank the last two differently, but I think very few blind listening tests would support putting the amplifier at the top of that list.
 
nicoff said:
Here’s a thought experiment:

In your own room, connect your Constellation amplifier to the cheapest speakers you can find (even something as basic as an Amazon Echo-sized speaker or an inexpensive pair of bookshelf speakers). Listen for a while.

Then reverse the experiment. Connect a very inexpensive amplifier (like say $100 Fosi) to your regular speakers in the same room.

After you’ve done both, ask yourself which change had the greater impact on the sound.

To me, that illustrates the real hierarchy of importance. The speakers and the room dominate what you hear. Once an amplifier is competently designed and operating within its limits, improvements become comparatively small.

Large, beautifully built amplifiers certainly have their appeal, but today they are no longer a prerequisite for excellent sound.

One thing that has always puzzled me is that many magazine reviews devoted page after page to electronics while giving only passing mention to the room—arguably the single biggest contributor to what reaches our ears.

If I had to rank the factors by their audible impact in a well-functioning system, it would be:

Room → Speakers → Source/DSP → Amplifier (assuming competent design and adequate power).

Others may rank the last two differently, but I think very few blind listening tests would support putting the amplifier at the top of that list.
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I think you need to add set up right near the top. The positioning of the speakers within the room ( maybe those are combined) makes all the difference in the world. When one sees pictures of installations it is somewhat easy to see that the system can't be performing at its best. I agree that no matter what you spend on gear in a lousy room with non quality set up the results are not good.
 
nicoff said:
In your own room, connect your Constellation amplifier to the cheapest speakers you can find (even something as basic as an Amazon Echo-sized speaker or an inexpensive pair of bookshelf speakers). Listen for a while.

Then reverse the experiment. Connect a very inexpensive amplifier (like say $100 Fosi) to your regular speakers in the same room.
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I'd go along with that but perhaps (particularly considering the readership of the forum), I'd suggest a $1000 amp with $10,000 speakers and vice versa. The difference between a carefully chosen $1K amp and a $10K one will turn out to be small compared with the $1K vs $10K speaker.

nicoff said:
Room → Speakers → Source/DSP → Amplifier (assuming competent design and adequate power).
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I'd omit Room as you are stuck with it, but the equipment choice is very dependent on the room's features, so:

Speaker TYPE - Speakers - Amplifier - Source, particularly if digital.

Get it right - with ideal speaker placement and setup, and consideration of furnishings, carpets, etc - and no DSP should be introduced.

I've promoted the amplifier, but perhaps those analogue fans may give greater empasis to their crazy-priced turntables over amplifier! ;)
 
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