UltraFast69
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- #61
Glad to hear Rex, it’s these little things and really doesn’t matter if your streaming, spinning discs or playing albums - it turns a system into more for little cost especially in comparison.
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Glad to hear Rex, it’s these little things and really doesn’t matter if your streaming, spinning discs or playing albums - it turns a system into more for little cost especially in comparison.
UltraFast69
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- Thread Author
- #62
After I hooked up the 6 gauge copper wire from the switch to the cable junction box I noticed the grounding cable for the cable and phone was attached to the incoming water pipe on a Copper line - the home is all Copper, no Pex.
Last night I tied into the clamp and heard a difference but was not thinking as good as when it was in the cable box, there was now 4 pieces of wire in the existing clamp at different diameters, plus some were stranded, others solid - then I did some reading after the fact and realized it was said not to tie in with cable and phone because their issues could become mine.
So I bought two new grounding clamps, keeping the 6 gauge audio separate, then cleaned the pipe and was cautious when placing the audio clamp onto the pipe as the elbow is about an inch off and don’t want to break soder.
Let me tell you the difference was now greater then the cable box tie in, and I had a hunch this was gonna happen.
That little noisy AQVox SE switch needs to be tamed and begs for grounding, and that’s what I gave her [emoji869] My system is killing it as it should for that pile of cash sunken into it, and it every TV and Streamer in the home has taken a step up as well.
So if your not using linear on the switch, and your switch has a grounding screw then consider following something like I did as an option, I now have under $20.00 in this and the work was simple at best.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Last night I tied into the clamp and heard a difference but was not thinking as good as when it was in the cable box, there was now 4 pieces of wire in the existing clamp at different diameters, plus some were stranded, others solid - then I did some reading after the fact and realized it was said not to tie in with cable and phone because their issues could become mine.
So I bought two new grounding clamps, keeping the 6 gauge audio separate, then cleaned the pipe and was cautious when placing the audio clamp onto the pipe as the elbow is about an inch off and don’t want to break soder.
Let me tell you the difference was now greater then the cable box tie in, and I had a hunch this was gonna happen.
That little noisy AQVox SE switch needs to be tamed and begs for grounding, and that’s what I gave her [emoji869] My system is killing it as it should for that pile of cash sunken into it, and it every TV and Streamer in the home has taken a step up as well.
So if your not using linear on the switch, and your switch has a grounding screw then consider following something like I did as an option, I now have under $20.00 in this and the work was simple at best.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
UltraFast69
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- Thread Author
- #63
I received via Amazon the iFi Groundhog Spade Connector as Puma Cat suggested and connected this to the AQVox SE, the same switch I just hooked up 6 gauge copper to.
Once again the system is impacted, but I need more time to assess the results. What I did notice is while the Aurender now is as silent as a lamb, I need my PreAmp at 50% to get the same result before at 40%, but there is no fatigue and the detail and openness is there on high, mid and low frequencies. So I find it odd I need more power if noise is being removed from the line, I would think the opposite would happen like I’m hearing in my bedroom system. I will look at my gain adjustment on my DAC which is at 70%, and maybe it needs to go up 1 or 2 clicks.
I do believe noise travels through other components via interconnects, cables etc and to get the most out of your system the electrical foundation needs to be squared away, and you can tune your system with cables, their configurement, isolation and everything under the sun.
I also found out the SMPS was the culprit that affected the server and PreAmp with noise, and this makes sense as the plug has no ground.
I also believe every action has a reaction, meaning you can overdo things and either need to correct for it or remove it and sometimes it’s best to leave well enough alone.
So just when I thought I was out, I’m pulled back in [emoji41]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Once again the system is impacted, but I need more time to assess the results. What I did notice is while the Aurender now is as silent as a lamb, I need my PreAmp at 50% to get the same result before at 40%, but there is no fatigue and the detail and openness is there on high, mid and low frequencies. So I find it odd I need more power if noise is being removed from the line, I would think the opposite would happen like I’m hearing in my bedroom system. I will look at my gain adjustment on my DAC which is at 70%, and maybe it needs to go up 1 or 2 clicks.
I do believe noise travels through other components via interconnects, cables etc and to get the most out of your system the electrical foundation needs to be squared away, and you can tune your system with cables, their configurement, isolation and everything under the sun.
I also found out the SMPS was the culprit that affected the server and PreAmp with noise, and this makes sense as the plug has no ground.
I also believe every action has a reaction, meaning you can overdo things and either need to correct for it or remove it and sometimes it’s best to leave well enough alone.
So just when I thought I was out, I’m pulled back in [emoji41]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
UltraFast69
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- #64
More gains, does it end?
See below...
See below...
UltraFast69
New member
- Thread Author
- #65
Hello Sharks:
Added the iFi with Spade to the AQVox SE switch using the repurposed Nordost Red Dawn power cable formerly feeding the Keces P8 and replacing it with an AudioQuest Thunder Source power cable to the P8.
The iFi spade contributed a modest gain to noise reduction, and wanted to be sure I wasn’t losing anything as I was suspicious. I believe the Red Dawn did something here, but not sure as the Thunder was put in and the first hour you could hear where things might go, then the burn in on the Thunder set in, making me shut the amps off and let the cable do it’s thing over night. The next morning was a night and day difference, Thunder is bringing things together nicely.
Takeaway;
- iFi proved a modest gain in conjunction with my 6 gauge solid copper passive addition, a better cable may make a difference but not sure - the iFi grounding process uses electrical grounding whereas my 6 gauge switch grounding is what I consider passive
- power cables influence Linear Power Supplies, and the Keces in my system performed horribly with an Ansuz C2, good with a Audioquest NRG 2, better with a Nordost Red Dawn and well on its way with the Audioquest Thunder Source passing all.
- Pay attention to what’s coming into your system as you can rob performance from other pieces in your system.
- Grounding; electrical and passive makes a good system into a great system!
Happy Listening!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Added the iFi with Spade to the AQVox SE switch using the repurposed Nordost Red Dawn power cable formerly feeding the Keces P8 and replacing it with an AudioQuest Thunder Source power cable to the P8.
The iFi spade contributed a modest gain to noise reduction, and wanted to be sure I wasn’t losing anything as I was suspicious. I believe the Red Dawn did something here, but not sure as the Thunder was put in and the first hour you could hear where things might go, then the burn in on the Thunder set in, making me shut the amps off and let the cable do it’s thing over night. The next morning was a night and day difference, Thunder is bringing things together nicely.
Takeaway;
- iFi proved a modest gain in conjunction with my 6 gauge solid copper passive addition, a better cable may make a difference but not sure - the iFi grounding process uses electrical grounding whereas my 6 gauge switch grounding is what I consider passive
- power cables influence Linear Power Supplies, and the Keces in my system performed horribly with an Ansuz C2, good with a Audioquest NRG 2, better with a Nordost Red Dawn and well on its way with the Audioquest Thunder Source passing all.
- Pay attention to what’s coming into your system as you can rob performance from other pieces in your system.
- Grounding; electrical and passive makes a good system into a great system!
Happy Listening!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Thanks
Great information, Ed. I can’t imagine going through the detailed A/B testing you’re going through.
For instance, trying 4 different power cables feeding your power supply!
One question: Are you using a separate grounding from your switch in addition to the Keces
lpsu? I thought the LPS would negate the need for additional grounding?
Hello Sharks:
Added the iFi with Spade to the AQVox SE switch using the repurposed Nordost Red Dawn power cable formerly feeding the Keces P8 and replacing it with an AudioQuest Thunder Source power cable to the P8.
The iFi spade contributed a modest gain to noise reduction, and wanted to be sure I wasn’t losing anything as I was suspicious. I believe the Red Dawn did something here, but not sure as the Thunder was put in and the first hour you could hear where things might go, then the burn in on the Thunder set in, making me shut the amps off and let the cable do it’s thing over night. The next morning was a night and day difference, Thunder is bringing things together nicely.
Takeaway;
- iFi proved a modest gain in conjunction with my 6 gauge solid copper passive addition, a better cable may make a difference but not sure - the iFi grounding process uses electrical grounding whereas my 6 gauge switch grounding is what I consider passive
- power cables influence Linear Power Supplies, and the Keces in my system performed horribly with an Ansuz C2, good with a Audioquest NRG 2, better with a Nordost Red Dawn and well on its way with the Audioquest Thunder Source passing all.
- Pay attention to what’s coming into your system as you can rob performance from other pieces in your system.
- Grounding; electrical and passive makes a good system into a great system!
Happy Listening!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Great information, Ed. I can’t imagine going through the detailed A/B testing you’re going through.
For instance, trying 4 different power cables feeding your power supply!
One question: Are you using a separate grounding from your switch in addition to the Keces
lpsu? I thought the LPS would negate the need for additional grounding?
UltraFast69
New member
- Thread Author
- #67
Hey there -
The Keces only powers the modem and a router. The AQ Vox SE uses its own SMPS switch that the manufacture indicates not to change as it has been tuned, even using after market ones they even sell. I tried changing this to a LPS and AQ proved to be right, at least in my case.
So the AQ VOX SE has the 6 gauge passive copper grounding i made up (major step forward) and the iFi current grounding (minor step forward) plugs into the Nordost Red Dawn power Cable which plugged into the Keces - just not 100% sure what the Red Dawn power cable did but think it added something but that is a “think" statement. Now the Thunder Source into the Keces P8, it was another major step forward, no “thinking" there, it was a "know"
Happy listening!
The Keces only powers the modem and a router. The AQ Vox SE uses its own SMPS switch that the manufacture indicates not to change as it has been tuned, even using after market ones they even sell. I tried changing this to a LPS and AQ proved to be right, at least in my case.
So the AQ VOX SE has the 6 gauge passive copper grounding i made up (major step forward) and the iFi current grounding (minor step forward) plugs into the Nordost Red Dawn power Cable which plugged into the Keces - just not 100% sure what the Red Dawn power cable did but think it added something but that is a “think" statement. Now the Thunder Source into the Keces P8, it was another major step forward, no “thinking" there, it was a "know"
Happy listening!
Puma Cat
Well-known member
The LPS may be passing high-impedance leakage currents, this is what the fix that UltraFast has ameliorated using the iFi Groundhog spade connector going to ground.
UltraFast69
New member
- Thread Author
- #69
Puma, Something kept bugging me on the iFi, the modest gain was there, but I was losing sound - an oxymoron. I first powered iFi with the OEM Keces power cable, then switched to Nordost Red Dawn, thinking maybe Red Dawn may of been too much, so back to the OEM to no avail, leading to pulling it from service and Amazoning it back.
You may laugh, but I like playing specific songs when critical listening, one of them is Madonna’s Vogue. This song is recorded in Q Sound where the phase is adjusted and it gives a surround illusion - my system kills this in a good way, blowing away all guests. I literally was losing the virtual percussion tapping on the far right side of me, all other songs were prevalent as well.
This may work good for others, just not in my application.
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UltraFast69
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- #70
Quick path update.
P8 > Arris Modem 12v > AQ Diamond > Eeros Router > AQ Diamond > AQ Vox SE > 15M Belden 1303 Catsnake Cat 6/Ghent > P3 > Gigafoil > AQ Diamond > Aurender N10
Note: Two other A/V home systems are also connected to the AQVoxSE bringing awesome results in sound and in picture quality - running all similar cable has its benefits, the Diamonds are killing it!
Then I went from the AQVox SE > AQ Vodka > to a cheap Netgear switch powered by LPS.
There are a few cameras and the video game room on this switch.
Honestly I could care less about this path, but then I ran a second 6 gauge solid copper grounding cable and the difference was not subtle, and now I’m talking the whole enchilada. What’s the whole enchilada? I mean everything in the house that is connected with Cat 5/6.
I may be off but I’m thinking plugging into the Netgear from the AQVox SE provided the benefits stated up in my previous comments, but the signals are going both ways bringing back noise contamination to the AQVox SE for a lack of better term, and component grounding the Netgear out despite receiving electrical ground from the LPS closed yet another loop.
The audio background became darker than dark, no loss to detail or sound quality on the 2 channel and all the TV blacks are blacker and other colors sharper.
This does not even make sense, but I can clearly hear and see the difference and not I’m imagining or wanting change, and there are no drugs or drink used in this experiment, conducted strictly out of being curious.
Takeaway:
As I said before run a 6 gauge copper grounding wire to your switch, flatten one end using a press or simply beat it with a hammer and drill a hole assuming the switch has a grounding port. Run it to the main water pipe and connect with a brass connecting clamp (both available at a hardware store) unless you can get outdoors to a rod in earth - so easy to do, and for those that are not clear this is passive, so it’s not running with hot and neutral wire, two different types of ground.
Cost is less than a dollar per foot, the return is at 100 times, you can also use less gauge but not sure the quality path you will get.
And remember, for those of you that are half assed tinkerers like me, you get the self satisfaction of the Hobby part of this crazy thing we call Audio!
Enjoy Your Sound, Enjoy Summer!
P8 > Arris Modem 12v > AQ Diamond > Eeros Router > AQ Diamond > AQ Vox SE > 15M Belden 1303 Catsnake Cat 6/Ghent > P3 > Gigafoil > AQ Diamond > Aurender N10
Note: Two other A/V home systems are also connected to the AQVoxSE bringing awesome results in sound and in picture quality - running all similar cable has its benefits, the Diamonds are killing it!
Then I went from the AQVox SE > AQ Vodka > to a cheap Netgear switch powered by LPS.
There are a few cameras and the video game room on this switch.
Honestly I could care less about this path, but then I ran a second 6 gauge solid copper grounding cable and the difference was not subtle, and now I’m talking the whole enchilada. What’s the whole enchilada? I mean everything in the house that is connected with Cat 5/6.
I may be off but I’m thinking plugging into the Netgear from the AQVox SE provided the benefits stated up in my previous comments, but the signals are going both ways bringing back noise contamination to the AQVox SE for a lack of better term, and component grounding the Netgear out despite receiving electrical ground from the LPS closed yet another loop.
The audio background became darker than dark, no loss to detail or sound quality on the 2 channel and all the TV blacks are blacker and other colors sharper.
This does not even make sense, but I can clearly hear and see the difference and not I’m imagining or wanting change, and there are no drugs or drink used in this experiment, conducted strictly out of being curious.
Takeaway:
As I said before run a 6 gauge copper grounding wire to your switch, flatten one end using a press or simply beat it with a hammer and drill a hole assuming the switch has a grounding port. Run it to the main water pipe and connect with a brass connecting clamp (both available at a hardware store) unless you can get outdoors to a rod in earth - so easy to do, and for those that are not clear this is passive, so it’s not running with hot and neutral wire, two different types of ground.
Cost is less than a dollar per foot, the return is at 100 times, you can also use less gauge but not sure the quality path you will get.
And remember, for those of you that are half assed tinkerers like me, you get the self satisfaction of the Hobby part of this crazy thing we call Audio!
Enjoy Your Sound, Enjoy Summer!
asindc
Member
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2013
- Messages
- 784
Kingrex,
Did you ever compare the HDPlex and the Keces? If so, which particular models?
Kingrex
Active member
Never compared. But I definitely hear an improvement with the HDplex on my router and modem. They make a difference.
Right now its only on one. I forget which. I was having drop outs. Not sure why. Could have been the utility. All was fine on both for a week. Could be I was maxing out the 100 watt PS. I might go back to both and see.
Right now its only on one. I forget which. I was having drop outs. Not sure why. Could have been the utility. All was fine on both for a week. Could be I was maxing out the 100 watt PS. I might go back to both and see.
For a few months, I used a Keces P3 to power the Att Arris Modem. (And a Topaz iso transformer was in front of the Keces)
A few weeks ago, the modem went bad. An Att tech deduced that the Keces killed it and charged me for a new modem and service call.
Reason given: "wrong amperage for the modem."
I was out of town at the time, but having just returned, I see that the Keces output is 3 amp and does in fact match the 3 amp input of the modem.
I'm going to challenge Att on this, but just wondering if I could be overlooking anything beyond the obvious?
Thanks
A few weeks ago, the modem went bad. An Att tech deduced that the Keces killed it and charged me for a new modem and service call.
Reason given: "wrong amperage for the modem."
I was out of town at the time, but having just returned, I see that the Keces output is 3 amp and does in fact match the 3 amp input of the modem.
I'm going to challenge Att on this, but just wondering if I could be overlooking anything beyond the obvious?
Thanks
Sounds like ATT is trying to place the blame on someone else. No issues here.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Kingrex
Active member
I don't believe the Keces power supply had anything to do with the failure of the modem. Modems and routers fail all the time. Especially a combination modem router. They have too much to do and they just can't handle it.
'
Legally it's a completely different story. You have altered the power supply and that alone would negate any implied warranties.
I don't know how a Keces is design, but I gather switch mode power supplies always output a constant "voltage". I have heard linear power supplies voltage can swing based upon the load. I don't think that is a problem with keces. I believe it is a regulated voltage but who knows, there could be something to that.
'
Legally it's a completely different story. You have altered the power supply and that alone would negate any implied warranties.
I don't know how a Keces is design, but I gather switch mode power supplies always output a constant "voltage". I have heard linear power supplies voltage can swing based upon the load. I don't think that is a problem with keces. I believe it is a regulated voltage but who knows, there could be something to that.
That’s what I was afraid of. That Att can just say you put an unauthorized power supply in front of our modem whether or not it meets specs.
Something tells me I’m in for a lot of frustration if I try to fight them on this...
Bullshit. They can handle their function just fine without being overloaded processor or logic wise.
More likely, is a brown out condition or multiple brown outs in the A/C feed (ala storm activity) that killed the AT&T device.
UltraFast69
New member
- Thread Author
- #78
Here is what the P8 is doing, the higher amperage is the modem, the lesser, the switch both running 12V and together about 1.1 amp.
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Kingrex
Active member
I disagree. When mine went bad I had a local computer tech company inspect my system and they told me what I relayed here. Mine started as intermittent dropping out that became so bad I finally could not connect. It was not a total failure, loss of power, wont start. They very much said a Combo modem and router is to much processing demand. They suggested I go with separates. When I did I also realized a nice bump in sound quality that was validated by a few other industry members on Audionirvana. Separated that is sound better than a combo unit.
I agree a true brown out can cause the unit to heat up and fail. Small spikes maybe. A lightning strike yes definitely. It is my belief my 75 ohm isolator that was destroyed in our last lightning storm may have saved some of my gear. I should have remembered to disconnect my Ethernet. I guess I got lucky.
Kingrex
Active member
Nice image Ed. I forgot it has a display that shows the voltage. If I was Wilco I would at least send a letter with the spec and state the long time customer crap and see where it goes. I usually get my way with internet providers. Personally I would sxxxcan their modem and get my own. I like the Surfboard I have. Tell them to take the monthly fee for the one they provide and shove it somewhere. Anytime you start taking monthly revenue from them they listen.