The Front End Digital Foundation

[Kingrex]

Any particular reason you think you need power conditioner on the Keces?

 

[UltraFast69]

I’ve pondered that and curious to find out, everything done thus far has been some of the cheapest cost items delivering positive results.

Worst case I can take it back or repurpose it to the living room A/V

 

[Willco]

Very interesting.

I try to avoid having my music going through the network completely. I have all of my music on internal SSDs in my server. I go directly out through AQ Coffee USB cable to a W4S Recovery, back out through another Coffee to the DAC. Every component is connect through an AQ Niagara power conditioner and I do have a Linear Power Supply on the Recovery and I also have two PS Audio Noise Harvesters attached to the same power outlet as the Niagara. It all sounds quite to me and friends from the audio club usually comment on how "black" the back ground is in my system.

Since streaming is essential to me, unless there’s someway to use streaming in an off-line mode from the network, then I have to throw my energies and cleaning up the network.

I’m going to put an LPSU from small green computer on my modem where the fiber optic comes into a utility room below the house. I then have 100 feet of Cat 7 buried Between the house and my studio where the audio system is.

It just occurs to me that it might be a good idea to run a dedicated line for the modem in this utility room as it’s now sharing the circuit with A water Filtration pump which I figure has got to be noisy.

And then at the studio/ listening room I’ll put in the Uptone EtherRegen switch when it’s ready.

 

[Willco]

My experience is also that recording quality is by far the most important factor, regardless of format Or delivery method. But someday, I’m going to take the time to start comparing some of my favorite recordings as streamed or rips and see if there’s a meaningful difference.

 

[UltraFast69]

Well I received the Audioquest Power 3 today. Very nicely built, heavy gauge directional power cable and a template made the mounting screws a snap.

I just turned on the system, and have qualified that the Linear Power Supply is affected by what it’s fed. First I installed a PS Audio receptacle a few weeks back, and now updated distribution to the Audioquest Power 3.

I changed out the stranded copper Nordost Red Dawn for the time being and in its place an Audioquest NRG 2 solid core power cable, decision is to stick with synergy.

After 10 minutes of listening my low end is much lower and the mid’s a tad faded, but song depending. I’m not paranoid anymore about the Stillpoints UItra SS taking away the midrange.

I can hear this needs a little break in between the distribution and power cable, I’ll stream the Aurender N10 all night and weekend.

Eventually I will ask Rex to run a dedicated circuit to the mechanical room and get off the main panel as it’s obvious to me paying attention to this part of the digital front end to support streaming is not an option.

This picture is not the best - its a little cleaner then it looks.

Stay tuned!





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[UltraFast69]

If your streaming, I highly recommend consideration on what I have been mentioning on this Lone Ranger Thread.

I was no different, the eye candy is addicting. Many of us put the money into the power, speakers, components, cables, isolation, treatment and rightfully so as you get to immediately hear the results.

If your following what I have done and I hope you have as I’m that passionate about it, I truly believe you’ll be amazed if you go down this road.

It’s day 2 and I’m BLOWN AWAY on what is happening and what I’m hearing inserting the Audioquest distribution and cable, as the next piece to square away the modem and switch, total $399.00.

Is this feeding cleaner power on a house panel shared circuit to the Keces P8, oh yes. I can’t wait until I install a dedicated breaker for this.

Everything is so much more natural while sounding more alive then it was before. I’ve been building this system over the years, I have always benefited from the attributes of a good system on what it was and is putting out, after all this is a high 6 figure system. But now, it’s gone into a different league.

Inky black, check
Smoother, check
Amazing timbre, check
Upper end resolute and complimenting, check
No sacrifice to mid range, check
Tight controlled low end, check

Despite me still thinking can it get any better? My hunch is I’m going to get more over the next few days as there is only close to 25 hours on the distribution and power cable feeding the Keces, if this follows the route my high dollar cables went down, we are talking another 75 plus hours or progressive sweetness.

I believe most of our gear purchased as high fi is already heads and shoulders over low and mid fi systems, you just have to work it. While I’m way past any budget originally set out years ago, it does not have to be crazy priced to get the most out of it.

Paying attention to what feeds what from the beginning cannot be overlooked, if you want more and don’t want to spend high 4 and 5 figures.

How your modem is powered from the wall pays huge dividends, plus everything else in the house is benefiting as well.

I won’t imagine putting a Nordost QRT system at the modem, but I do wonder.

More Later, Peace!




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[Willco]

Ultrafast, this is interesting. I've never given it much thought to try to eliminate noise at the Modem. My efforts have been at the Switch and the DAC. But, I imagine the Att Modem is a very noisy device.

If I understand correctly, John Swenson, engineer at Uptone Audio, says he does not believe any filtration, cable and linear power supply upgrade will be needed at the Modem or above their network switch ("EtherRegen" still in development). He says their switch will clean up any noise coming into the switch.

However, nevertheless, I'm going to see what my spare Topaz Iso transformer along with a spare filtering power cord feeding a lpsu might do.

 

[UltraFast69]

Ultrafast, this is interesting. I've never given it much thought to try to eliminate noise at the Modem. My efforts have been at the Switch and the DAC. But, I imagine the Att Modem is a very noisy device.

If I understand correctly, John Swenson, engineer at Uptone Audio, says he does not believe any filtration, cable and linear power supply upgrade will be needed at the Modem or above their network switch ("EtherRegen" still in development). He says their switch will clean up any noise coming into the switch.

However, nevertheless, I'm going to see what my spare Topaz Iso transformer along with a spare filtering power cord feeding a lpsu might do.

Yes it is interesting, my take is it’s all cumulative and the better it is at the start the better it is as it goes through the system.

Your hardcore grounding efforts is parallel to this


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[UltraFast69]

The Lone Ranger comes back with even more...[emoji1783]

On a different thread, it was asked if power cables improve a LPS.

I was completely sold using a lower offering power cable from AudioQuest out of my new Audioquest distribution into the Keces P8 replacing a Nordost Red Dawn, it was a solid core replacing a stranded to support the modem and switch for streaming.

So I said to myself there’s an Ansuz C sitting in my Transport I only use for Apple TV and it’s was not a cheap cable to do little to nothing, so into the Audioquest Distribution it went and out to the Keces 8 powering the modem and switch it now does.

The result is staggering, I literally just hit pay dirt in streaming. I’m not sure if you can do better for all the money that is now sitting from the wall to the switch, but most of this stuff was already here.

I’ll be back here over the weekend to see what else is gained between now and then. I’m sure he Ansuz needs to settle a bit with its new role.









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[UltraFast69]

Well follow up to the changing power cables to the LPS

First up was Nordost Red Dawn, it allowed a natural sound, smooth and warm

Next was the Audioquest NRG, it was a bit more pronounced and revealing, the sound was its own in a good way, and was slightly warm but not as much as the Nordost

Then the Ansuz, and it was very resolving, lowered the noise floor to ridiculous levels, but it was argued that it was not as natural when I ran the Nordost, followed by the Audioquest when I ran a comparison confirmed with a long time Audio Junkie friend of mine.

I ended up putting back the Audioquest, the least expensive of the three back on the Keces 8, figuring that it had to still burn in a bit.

The Ansuz C is a great cable, and I think it’s best purposed for the high current of amps, and now I know what Shunyata means by their classes of cables, it has to be.

Simply said, Ansuz was too much of a good thing.

In the end, my path of what is mentioned in this post ain’t no joke, and is solid for streaming all day long!

Good luck out there, happy listening [emoji1733]




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[UltraFast69]

An interesting read Ultrafast69.

I love these sorts of commentaries.

I think the digital front end is the next great exploration ground to open up possibilities and unlock further potential of our systems. Keep it up.

Totally agree and I just updated with some clarity.


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[aKnyght]

very informative and useful thread which i have been following with interest -- you are certainly on a mission to extract every last bit of SQ from your digital source. thanks for reporting your findings and progress here.

based upon my experience as well, there are huge gains in SQ to be had by addressing the front-end digital infrastructure with the simple goal of making it transparent and, thereby, allowing the rest of the system to perform at its potential. having the benefit of starting from scratch, i was able to implement a quite minimalist digital front-end (described in this thread) which yielded a system SQ improvement far beyond my initial expectations.

looking forward to hearing more results from your project -- as well as the experience of others here.

 

[Kingrex]

With such big gains on a power cord, it makes you wonder what a better PS might do. Keces from the talk I hear is a good middle to top of middle performer. There are others that are better. More money yes.

 

[UltraFast69]

With such big gains on a power cord, it makes you wonder what a better PS might do. Keces from the talk I hear is a good middle to top of middle performer. There are others that are better. More money yes.

I honestly did not believe a power cable would have any affect on a linear power supply, but it so did.

Can you get a better power supply, of course. The question is how better do you need to run a modem and switch?

A $5000 Ansuz power cable on a $100 modem puts things into perspective from the point that too much of a good thing can be deadly, it was just way too much for me, so there has to be a balance in there somewhere. Personally I think the Audioquest checks that box and I am so happy with what I did and what I am hearing.

Now once you install the dedicated line in the mechanical room, I can’t help but wonder if it will emulate the Ansuz - we will both see.

Luckily it’s only money [emoji1782]


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[Jack]

Why would anybody pay $5000 for a re-badged Chinese built switch?

 

[UltraFast69]

Why would anybody pay $5000 for a re-badged Chinese built switch?

?


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[UltraFast69]

Heres more support why everything matters, and some things don’t with the caveat of system and ears depending...

I stole my Ultra SS Stillpoints from under the transport and put them under the Keces 8 when I got it, now I had the idea to pull the Ultra SS from under the AQVOx switch in the audio room and replace them with a HRS Nimbus isolator puck and repurpose the Ultra SS under the transport - HUGE MISTAKE, everything flattened out. The Ultra SS went back under the AQVox and everything came back. This shows to me that those little switches are noisy M’Fkrs.

Earlier I tried to use Stillpoints under the Gigafoil, and I lost dynamics, so the Gigafoil only sits on a small piece of stone,

The Stillpoints did work on the Transport, but since I hardly use it was the reason to see if the change would work.

 

[UltraFast69]

Latest updates, sound is dialed in very nice, and here is where I should leave well enough alone.

So, knowing this, I threw in a single Stillpoints Ultra 6 under the AQVox SE, let it play for a day and out it came, the Ultra SS proves to be the best in my system.

It seems higher end tweaks don’t get the performance when used for ancillary support to components. The Ansuz C Power Cable and now Ultra SS failed the sound test. Maybe simpler is the best path.

So now I’m waiting for KingRex to put a dedicated circuit in my mechanical room for the modem, router and switch.

Ethernet cable: It has been said for distance run a cheap cable to the Gigafoil and high quality out, and I did this and it works.

Now, I am going to have Ghent make me a 15M Ethernet cable, going from the mechanical room to the music room to see what a better Ethernet cable does, it’s under $300 and much better than what I have. I refuse to put in a Nordost Heimdell at this point [emoji851]


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[UltraFast69]

F#@K - It’s the Tweaker, Audio Junkie updating on my latest efforts to maximize sound quality for streaming!

Running through my last combinations is not to get a different sound but better results or back it goes.

By applying this practice, I have reversed a few trials as mentioned in earlier posts simply as they emitted poor SQ results.

I’m gonna let my recent changes settle over the weekend, and don’t want to be fooled like the Ansuz did to me mentioned a few posts up, but as I process what I am hearing, I would be embarrassed to stand up if friends were over unless they were a couple of blonds.

Here’s what I did;

I moved my AQVox SE switch from the Music room to the Mechanical room, sitting on a hunk of Marble.

It now connects a 15M generic Cat 6 cable to the Gigafoil v4 in the music room and also connects the main network switch supplying Cat 5 through the home, the results are even crazier on Apple TVs around the home, faster load, and stunning graphics.

The Keces P3 in the Music Room now sits on Stillpoints Ultra SS versus the Stillpoints Minis - no change to the previous AC/DC cable updates.

In the Mechanical room, the AQVox SE sits on Ultra SS, now with bases, next to the Keces P8 that is only used to power the Arris Surfboard modem and a Netgear switch feeding the home other than the Music Room.

The AQVoxSe connects the Netgear home switch with a AQVox top of the line Ethernet cable - no change to the previous AC/DC cable updates.

I moved the Shunyata Defender power conditioner to the PS Audio outlet, that sits above the Audioquest 3 Distribution hard wire cable/plug.

I am waiting for my new 15M Shielded Belden Ethernet cable with German Matrix Shielded termination plugs to arrive late next week, plus a new 1M Gotham, made by Ghent for a total of $375.00.

The new Ethernet cable will replace the Generic Cat 6 Ethernet, this will tell us if the Gigafoil benefits from a better cable, I think it has a chance, but will be patient and take a listen. From the Gigafoil, there’s no change using Nordosts top of the line Heimdell.

I’ll use the existing 15M Generic Cat 6 fed from the AQVox SE to hook up a new Netgear switch in the Music Room tnst will feed Apple TV and Oppo using Nordost Heimdell cables. The Netgear will be powered by the second rail of the Keces P3 using a new Ghent Gotham DC 1M cable, and I will ground the Netgear switch with a Nordost QKore cable giving it a better then average start - eventually, I’ll Stillpoints the switch and ultimately replace it with Audio grade as the performance is hard to beat once I see the picture on the TV.

After all this, I’ll wait for KingRexs installation of a dedicated circuit in the mechanical room to happen whenever and stick a fork in it, it’s Salmon season for me and my focus will be on this years bounty that pays for all of this.

Happy Listening [emoji1733]







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[Kuoppis]

Nice experimentation UltraFast. A man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do. Once you start diving into details, there’s no end. But I know the feeling when a tweak works for you [emoji3].

Happy hunting!


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