Tariff implications.........

mep said:
More nonsense. You like to dance on the head of a pin and I'm sick of it.
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Sorry! That's not the intention. I did mention earlier that when we try to lead our lives as if our made up stories about it are real, when life does not agree, that is the source of all human suffering, such as your being "sick of it".

I try really hard to not use innuendo. If you try to read between the lines of things I've written you'll likely wind up with a misconception, as appears you've done here.

I get in trouble a lot for being really literal and many have told me I should have been an attorney. But I've no taste for that. Anyway, its nothing personal.
 
atmasphere said:
Sorry! That's not the intention. I did mention earlier that when we try to lead our lives as if our made up stories about it are real, when life does not agree, that is the source of all human suffering, such as your being "sick of it".

I try really hard to not use innuendo. If you try to read between the lines of things I've written you'll likely wind up with a misconception, as appears you've done here.

I get in trouble a lot for being really literal and many have told me I should have been an attorney. But I've no taste for that. Anyway, its nothing personal.
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It's not hard for people to see the only one making up stories and denying what they just wrote is you.
 
Sound said:
You are mistaken about VAT. It is not an entry tax that would apply only to imported products upon their entry into the market, but a consumption and value-added tax that applies to all consumed products, including local products. For example, in France, a French car or a French hi-fi product are also taxed at 20% even if they were manufactured locally. There is therefore no discrimination regarding the origin of the product in this tax, contrary to what you are wrongly led to believe.
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VATs are typically applied to all goods, domestic and imported, hence there is no valid argument that they are to protect domestic producers.

That said, US trade officials have complained about Canada's VAT, (here called GST or HST). The argument appears to be the Canadian producers are rebated the VAT on goods they export -- i.e. the VAT they have paid on components of their products. By this argument the rebated VAT amounts to a "subsidy" for these exports. I don't personally buy it.

The way it works here is that a producer pays the VAT on components and collects VAT from customers; the producer remits to the gov't the VAT from customer less the VAT it has paid on components.. In case of exports, of course, it doesn't collect any VAT from foreign customers.
 
Shadowfax said:
It is high time that we start making everything we need in the US in the US. That will be the elimination of Tariff concerns.
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This is an extreme & unreasonable statement.

Probably you're aware that the concept of free trade which has been around since Adam Smith, (1776: Wealth of Nations). Fundamentally the notion is that by nations doing what they do best and, in many cases, leaving other stuff to other nations. Thereby all consumers everywhere benefit from goods at lowest cost.

Do you believe that the USA will have more "secure, high-paying jobs", by making the sort of popular, cheap clothing made to day in the sweatshops of Bangladesh? Or the plethora of cheap junk made world-wide that American consumers demand? Personally I doubt it.
 
Feanor said:
This is an extreme & unreasonable statement.

Probably you're aware that the concept of free trade which has been around since Adam Smith, (1776: Wealth of Nations). Fundamentally the notion is that by nations doing what they do best and, in many cases, leaving other stuff to other nations. Thereby all consumers everywhere benefit from goods at lowest cost.

Do you believe that the USA will have more "secure, high-paying jobs", by making the sort of popular, cheap clothing made to day in the sweatshops of Bangladesh? Or the plethora of cheap junk made world-wide that American consumers demand? Personally I doubt it.
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Exactly... the day where any country can manufacture every single thing that they consume 100% by themselves are long gone. The world has became far too small and there are far too many areas that produce certain items better than others do.

A great example is diamonds that people around the world crave. South Africa pretty has this market exclusively. The huge producers of food really goes to the United States with the mid western and central farmers, and the California fields which spread further than the eye can see in the Central Valley and Central Coast.

There is no such thing as a country as large and as diverse as the United States being able to produce everything themselves. Americans would not stand by for clothing being produced here, both in terms of quality and price, as an example. The automobile industry has become a world wide industry. Tariffs will accomplish nothing but force the American workers to pay vastly more for the items they want and/or need. The rich will become richer and the workers will become poorer, akin to indentured servants.

Look at the past and it will become crystal clear that making an economy based on tariffs and isolationism has never worked and has directly led to some of the worst periods in the US history.
 
Fair trade is equal trade. The proposed hikes in tariffs, other than China, only puts 1/2 the tariffs that other countries have on USA products on their products. Even after these the tariffs are not equal.
 
Randy Myers said:
Exactly... the day where any country can manufacture every single thing that they consume 100% by themselves are long gone. The world has became far too small and there are far too many areas that produce certain items better than others do.

A great example is diamonds that people around the world crave. South Africa pretty has this market exclusively. The huge producers of food really goes to the United States with the mid western and central farmers, and the California fields which spread further than the eye can see in the Central Valley and Central Coast.

There is no such thing as a country as large and as diverse as the United States being able to produce everything themselves. Americans would not stand by for clothing being produced here, both in terms of quality and price, as an example. The automobile industry has become a world wide industry. Tariffs will accomplish nothing but force the American workers to pay vastly more for the items they want and/or need. The rich will become richer and the workers will become poorer, akin to indentured servants.

Look at the past and it will become crystal clear that making an economy based on tariffs and isolationism has never worked and has directly led to some of the worst periods in the US history.
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Who wrote this reply? This was lifted or generated by AI because it's too well written to have come from Randy.
 
Randy Myers said:
Exactly... the day where any country can manufacture every single thing that they consume 100% by themselves are long gone. The world has became far too small and there are far too many areas that produce certain items better than others do.

A great example is diamonds that people around the world crave. South Africa pretty has this market exclusively. The huge producers of food really goes to the United States with the mid western and central farmers, and the California fields which spread further than the eye can see in the Central Valley and Central Coast.
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Another excellent example is aluminum. The USA gets 60% of that metal from Canada. Aluminum requires large amounts of electrical power to process the metal from ores; the province of Quebec, Canada, has huge amounts of electrical capacity on account vast hydro-electric facilities. There is little prospect of the USA being able to domestically produce aluminum so cheaply.

The US administration imposed 25% tariffs on aluminum which is used as input to numerous industries, notably automobile production. Belatedly the US gov't permitted US automakers to import aluminum without paying the tariff.
 
mep said:
Who wrote this reply? This was lifted or generated by AI because it's too well written to have come from Randy.
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LOL, AI says it is not entirely accurate

While your statement highlights important aspects of global production, it's not entirely accurate. Here's a breakdown:
1. Diamonds and South Africa:
  • South Africa has a significant history with diamond production and remains a notable player in the global diamond industry.
  • However, South Africa does not exclusively dominate the global diamond market.
  • Other major diamond-producing countries include Russia, Botswana, Canada, and the Democratic Republic of Congo.
  • In terms of reserves, Australia, Congo (Kinshasa) and Botswana have larger shares.
  • According to Mining Technology, South Africa accounted for 10% of global production in 2023.
2. Food Production and the United States:
  • The United States is a major food producer and exporter.
  • The Midwest and California are key agricultural regions.
  • However, the United States does not have an exclusive hold on global food production.
  • Other countries like China, Brazil, and India are also significant producers of various agricultural commodities.
  • The Economic Research Service (.gov) notes that agriculture, food, and related industries contributed roughly $1.537 trillion to U.S. GDP in 2023.
In Summary:
  • While South Africa is a major player in the diamond industry, it is not the sole dominant force, according to Statista, holding 13% of the market in 2023.
  • The United States is a leading food producer and exporter, particularly with the Midwest and California, but other countries also significantly contribute to global food production.
 
Feanor said:
Another excellent example is aluminum. The USA gets 60% of that metal from Canada. Aluminum requires large amounts of electrical power to process the metal from ores; the province of Quebec, Canada, has huge amounts of electrical capacity on account vast hydro-electric facilities. There is little prospect of the USA being able to domestically produce aluminum so cheaply.

The US administration imposed 25% tariffs on aluminum which is used as input to numerous industries, notably automobile production. Belatedly the US gov't permitted US automakers to import aluminum without paying the tariff.
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Moot point once Canada becomes the 51st State :)

Nice to see you around Feanor, hope all is well.
 
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