Super Speaker Shootout - which design wins?

This thread is making me feel insecure about my lowly Magico S5 Mk2 'cone and dome''s :blush:. Actually i'm starting to believe a 'cone and dome' is the audio equivalent of a five and dime :huh:..
 
wisnon said:
Active DRC speaker wins, but is no "fun". Cant tweak anything.

Passive? My money here:
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Those are NAT amps driving the Stenheims. Where is this system?
 
Dunno, I think they are Absolares doing the driving (Nats unconnected). He also had Nagra 300b amps there too and CH Precision for the bass.

This is JPP's home in Valais, Switzerland (near Sion). I dont know if he still has them at home or if they are back in the office. It was a great evening!
 
Melbguy1 said:
Actually i'm starting to believe a 'cone and dome' is the audio equivalent of a five and dime :huh:..
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Tragic really. :)
Wide vs narrow dispersion characteristics relate to spatial rendition and preferences (and rooms!) rule here...as elsewhere.

cheers,

AJ
 
wisnon said:
Dunno, I think they are Absolares doing the driving (Nats unconnected). He also had Nagra 300b amps there too and CH Precision for the bass.

This is JPP's home in Valais, Switzerland (near Sion). I dont know if he still has them at home or if they are back in the office. It was a great evening!
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Looks like the NATs are lit up. That would have been an interesting compare
 
a.wayne said:
The Dog is into Horns ..... :)
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Smart dog.

The problem with horns is that the old one's for the most part were colored, honky and made everything sound like a horn - including voices and violins! The one's made in the last 20 years, for the most part, had less of those horn colorations (but still detectable), but still had issues with the bass keeping up with the horn.

Today, thanks to mega watt, fast class D amps and DSP, along side much better horn design issues due to the advancements in CAD design and R&D, those problems are largely gone IMO.

That being said, a horn system requires FAR more work and upheaval than simply swapping out your cone & dome X speaker for a cone & dome Y speaker. Room, Power, Cables, Source, Amplification, Preamp all will most likely need to be changed out IMO. Pairing your horn speakers with a Hegel H30, an Emm Labs DAC2X and some bright ass silver cables would not be ideal.

But when a horn system is done right, there is nothing (IMO) that gets you as close to the dynamics of live music.

I keep wondering to myself: what is the reference point people use? Do they want something pleasing and don't give a sh!t if it sounds dynamically live? If relaxing/non-offensive/smooth sounds are what some people are after, that would explain the popularity of BBC based speakers. If people are regularly attending live music or they are musicians, then their reference point might be something quite different.

The speakers Norman posted sounded nice to me, very impressive, but ultimately, to my ears, very hifi. YMMV.
 
Mike said:
Smart dog.

The problem with horns is that the old one's for the most part were colored, honky and made everything sound like a horn - including voices and violins! The one's made in the last 20 years, for the most part, had less of those horn colorations (but still detectable), but still had issues with the bass keeping up with the horn.

Today, thanks to mega watt, fast class D amps and DSP, along side much better horn design issues due to the advancements in CAD design and R&D, those problems are largely gone IMO.

That being said, a horn system requires FAR more work and upheaval than simply swapping out your cone & dome X speaker for a cone & dome Y speaker. Room, Power, Cables, Source, Amplification, Preamp all will most likely need to be changed out IMO. Pairing your horn speakers with a Hegel H30, an Emm Labs DAC2X and some bright ass silver cables would not be ideal.

But when a horn system is done right, there is nothing (IMO) that gets you as close to the dynamics of live music.

I keep wondering to myself: what is the reference point people use? Do they want something pleasing and don't give a sh!t if it sounds dynamically live? If relaxing/non-offensive/smooth sounds are what some people are after, that would explain the popularity of BBC based speakers. If people are regularly attending live music or they are musicians, then their reference point might be something quite different.

The speakers Norman posted sounded nice to me, very impressive, but ultimately, to my ears, very hifi. YMMV.
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A Good 4 tower line-source ribbon will compete with horns with the exception of being able to use an SET. The SET amplification does make it a challenge , but a i would have to give the edge to the ribbon line-source, especially on symphony and choral type music..



BTW, This is not a speaker put down show, we are discussing super speakers (SOTA) , it's not possible for a single small point source speaker system to achieve the level of performance we are discussing . A large point source system like the MM7's , Avalon, WA WAMM, et al maybe the exception with regards to point source loudspeakers, as in one way or the other they may be able to deliver SOTA performance on PAR with the rest ...


Regards ..
 
a.wayne said:
A Good 4 tower line-source ribbon will compete with horns with the exception of being able to use an SET. The SET amplification does make it a challenge , but a i would have to give the edge to the ribbon line-source, especially on symphony and choral type music..



A
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Definitely all good stuff. But here is the question - IYO, can a 4 tower line-source ribbon compete with horns in terms of ultimate dynamics?
 
Mike .... Compete ? Yes ...!!! and BTW, none of the linesource/Line arrrays you have listed are ribbons and due to their low sensitivity , they require buckets of HP, so it makes amplification a bigger challenge than those selecting horns.


Ked should jump in here a bit on this, but once you make the move from Hi-Fi sound to live sound, IMO, it's Big horns or panel line-source or it will all sound dead to you . Same as going from an avg size speaker to a large one ..

I'm sure it's the same for MikeL , there is no way MikeL could ever go back to a standard two box affair , it will all sound dead and compressed to him, of course this all varies on the type of program material being used , if all you listen to is studio multi mike stuff with avg to low crest factor, then the gap narrows, its only on the full scale large crest factor recordings where all of this makes a difference ...


regards ...
 
Mike said:
Definitely all good stuff. But here is the question - IYO, can a 4 tower line-source ribbon compete with horns in terms of ultimate dynamics?
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You don't need 4 towers. restored Apogees will be better. Only trios compete on that bass and dynamics level. Horns have good micro though
 
Ked,

You chimed in before i had finished editing, funny , I find horns are not as good as ribbons on the micro dynamics , they do not get as small , they are better in the bass, midbass range ( a full horn setup) and have a bit more jump but also more shout on Chorale which puts the ribbon back in the picture..


Both are pretty close when done right, So no surprise to me when panel users jump to Horns
 
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