Suggestions needed for a vinyl newbie

I was reading about the Denon quite a bit. It seems that people either love the sound or hate it. The way people describe the sound as being warm has scared me away from it a bit; the thing is, being bright, warm, neutral, as everyone knows, is a matter of opinion. I wish I had someone close by to compare with. I guess I can always wait and see what my dad's system sound like at Christmas once we get it up and running.
 
Matt715 said:
I tried a VTF of 1.5 and 1.75; the latter tightened up the bass a lot but it is still a lot more loose than what I am used to. The treble is still recessed but that might also just be the record or just the cartridge itself. The funny thing is that at the end of Money, I can hear the lady talking about the cruisin' for a bruisin' quite well; maybe even better than my CD...

I tried the anti-skate at a few different spots but I couldn't hear any difference at all.
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I wish I had an AT cart to send you ...on the Pioneer....BLISS. You seem to have the hang of aligning, etc. now so with a new cart, I think that would do it. There is NO WAY to know how many hours are on the Stanton.

Heck, I could send you a SHURE (offered to Doug but he didn't need it) pre-mounted just for you to hear..

Interested ? PM me your full name and address

Rob
 
Matt

With the Denon if you try to run it at 47k you will either love it or hate it. At the standard 47k I hated it, but when I loaded it down to 10k I liked it. So the bottom line is that not all cartridges work at 47k no matter what the manufactures say. In fact most don't. A good Stanton/Pickering stylus will sound a lot different than what you are hearing now with a worn out one, but it will not be forward. If that is what you want and are working on a budget then look for the best price you can find on an AT-120 E/T or an Ortofon OM-10. Both are slightly forward with the Ortofon being less so. If you want to try the Denon let me know as I have a spare NIB that I would part with.
 
I just took a crash course in loading. :) I'm not so sure that is something that I want to tackle at this point in time, but I don't see any reason why I couldn't.

If I am understanding how loading works, you either found that the Denon was too bright or too weak in the low end? The article I read didn't really say how changing the impedance changes the sound (frequency response?). Does lowering the impedance boost the lower frequencies or cut the high frequencies?
 
Sigh...another site is guilty of this too..

Let Matt walk please. Forget loading and record cleaning machines. He is not even sure he wants to be in vinyl. Forget ancient Stanton's and cart loading.

let him get a decent new cart, get things aligned and see where he goes from there....we all started somewhere..
 
Of course, let's just point him to something with the Audio Technica name brand on it and all will be right in the vinyl world. At least from some perspective. Matt, I will respond to your pm shortly.
 
Jack said:
Of course, let's just point him to something with the Audio Technica name brand on it and all will be right in the vinyl world. At least from some perspective. Matt, I will respond to your pm shortly.
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Jack,

Please don't take offense. It doesn't have to be AT ..it needs to be new. Based on discussions with Matt, the sound he likes is more forward and detailed. That says AT or Shure. I could recommend a $99 Sumiko Pearl but that is closer to the Stanton sound. As I don't have much experience with Denon's, I could not honestly point him to those with first hand knowledge. Honestly, this was not about "I know better than Jack". I respect your input. But having owned a variety of these and listening to what Matt is looking for, I would steer him away from the stantons/pickering or sumiko.

I sent him this and he LIKED the sound
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=D25B243EF6E53584!854&authkey=!AG0jzZEHPTZfjlg&ithint=file,.wav

That's an AT440MLa

So its not about don't listen to Jack. Its about what I think Matt will enjoy.

And lest anyone think I talk out my a$$ - Carts of mine tested in just the past 20 months - in newest to oldest order and you will note that the majority of newest are AT for a reason.
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Rob

No offense taken. I know before I enter into any vinyl related thread you are involved in on either forum what your tastes and bias' are and that you will eventually recommend based on that. In that post you "sighed" at I mentioned four cartridges. Three of which were new and gave him "my opinion" of how each one sounded and options for changing that sound if he liked or leave it alone if he liked. I have yet to recommend what I prefer, as I understand he wouldn't like it and to do it correctly would cost more than he wants to spend. Your personal favorite is also more than he wants to spend by almost double. With the Shure M97xe out of the equation and AT's huge price increases over the past year the under $100 market is very sparse. Hell even the Sanyo/Fisher MG-29(Red Ed) would meet his needs, but I couldn't find a place with one in stock. Many of these under $100 cartridges have faults and many of them are just rebadged versions of the same thing, ie. the MG-29 is being sold as a Goldring Elecktra and a Music Hall Tracker for $100 instead of the $18 on Ebay.

As to your list of previously owned cartridges, I still own everything you showed except for the AT LOMC's and the Pearl. The descriptions of the Pearl don't suit me and I didn't consider the AT-OC9, because I wont buy from LP Gear.

If Matt likes the 440mla he would like the DL-110 at standard loading too, as they are very similar. In both cases his budget will have to expand.
 
Thanks Jack...didn't want to offend at all.

And the DL-110 sounds like a good deal - Less expensive than the AT, HOMC and VERY well regarded. I wish in my searches I had tried one..

Just so you know, my sigh was not on your recommendations...I just think we sometimes overwhelm newbies ..LOL

Happens MUCH more elsewhere if you know what I mean.

Glad we are at peace (and I am not biased, I just show favorites...LOL)
 
If you check out post #136, I actually said I was willing to spend $200 if I needed to. :)

Jack is sending me a generic stylus to try on my Stanton so I can at least try a known good stylus and get an idea of if I like the general Stanton sound. I realize it's not going to sound the same as the real deal, but at least I'll have an idea.

I haven't knocked any cartridge out of the running yet, but that audio file that Rob posted really has affirmed what my research has suggested as a nice detailed cartridge. I played the file through my system using my AVR's DAC and it sounded really nice to my ears. It's pretty much the sound I was looking for, and I would be happy if I heard similar coming from my own system.

At this point I would like to keep things simple. I do enjoy experimenting and trying new things; after all that is part of what this hobby is about to me, but I would like to start off slow and simple before I start modifying or trying exotic things.

On another note, would it be in my best interest to pick up a test LP? From what I gather, it sounds like it would help me get things dialed in better than what I am doing now.
 
Matt

The stylus is on the way. If you decide to use the brush, use the NOS one as it is horsehair and the new ones are some plastic material like a cheap paintbrush. Also add one gram to account for the brush. These styli from my testing need more VTF anyway than the OEM ones, so start at 1.5/2.5 and work up from there.
 
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I've never used a brush in front of my cart myself; I don't feel good about it. Others might though, it's their prerogative.

* It looks to me that with all the minutiae adjustments, such a brush will counteract. ...But I might be wrong; it's just a feeling.
 
Matt715 said:
If you check out post #136, I actually said I was willing to spend $200 if I needed to. :)
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Oh yeah, I remember. :)

..., but that audio file that Rob posted really has affirmed what my research has suggested as a nice detailed cartridge. I played the file through my system using my AVR's DAC and it sounded really nice to my ears. It's pretty much the sound I was looking for, and I would be happy if I heard similar coming from my own system.
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The AT440MLa cart. :)

On another note, would it be in my best interest to pick up a test LP? From what I gather, it sounds like it would help me get things dialed in better than what I am doing now.
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I let Jack, or Rob answer that one.
 
Thanks Jack! I'll try it without the brush and I'll report back as soon as I get it.
 
Matt

I know my opinion of the 2M Red and the reviewers, but to me it is one of the worst cartridges I have heard in almost 50 years of vinyl. If you like the AT sound then either the 120E/T or the 44mla would be a good bet for you. They are both the same body and the styli are interchangeable so you can start with the 120 E/T and just buy a different stylus later. I load the AT's from current production down to 38kohms, but leave the older ones from the 70-80's alone as they are more neutral. The only other cartridge that I have heard or have in my possession that sounds similar to the AT's at standard loading is the Denon. It is priced retail between the other two so you could save a couple of bucks that way. I am pretty sure if you search at AK or check here you can find a clip to listen to. Parallel Resistive Loading. On Davey's site the clip is of the DL-160 which sounds almost the same.
 
@ Bob, okay due...that was crazy...I didn't know at first if they were going to play at the same time, lol...

The 2M was recorded at 1 to 2db higher. The AT handled the brassy sounds better where it broke up and was actually nerve racking on the Red. I think the AT had better soundstage too but its also comparing a $99 cart (RED) to a $200 very well made AT cart.

@Matt...as to test albums...whew..I don't think you need to be there yet dude. I have several that I use for several things. But we are talking tweaking (for me) the last 1% after I am 99% there. We need to get you 99% there first..LOL

Here is another needle drop for you (James Taylor) ... Not the same kind of test as the last I sent you but should sound great when Carley joins in at 1:45 and the guitars separation at the bridge...

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=D25B243EF6E53584!969&authkey=!ABHwLcc4vvFgzfQ&ithint=file,.wav
 
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