Speakers that will bring me down to me knees crying with joy

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akatora

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Jan 3, 2014
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Ok, so I had to write something ordinary in the title, but it´s really what I want. I live in Sweden and here we have a few really good Hi-Fi dealers which can offer great brands, but not everything is available. I´ve taken a break from this hobby the last 2-3years so I´m not up to speed on every new set of speakers.

What I have listened to in the past:

TAD Reference One - Really awesome speaker, it was paired up with TAD´s electronic and I found the sound a bit cold, just a bit.

Giya G1 - I can´t get past the design 100% but the sound was good, but the setup might not have been the best or optimal for me. However I could see wanting to listen to them again in a different setup if possible.

Raidho D3 and D5 - Now this is the speakerbrand is, together with Sonus Faber Cremona M, that made the best emotionally connection with me. I was actually visiting Raidhos factory in Denmark with a dealer who brought me there. The sound from the D5 were super awesome, but they are very hard to get by used, but they could be the best speakers I´ve heard.

Focal diablo - Really awesome little speaker; sounded really good, I would like to hear the new speakers from Focal.

B&W 800D - Paired up with classe electronics; I found them pretty good, but it was too long ago when I heard them.

Magico S5 - I really really wanted to love this speaker, it looked so perfect 2x10" etc. it was paired up with electronics from Devialet. I experienced the sound to be too cold for me, could have been the room which was very small and weird.

## So what is important for me; well emotions emotions emotions; I want to feel something when listen to music; if we´re talking about chosing a "colorless" speaker and pair it up with tubes" or chose a speaker like Sonus Faber use to be, made everything sound lush, then the first option might suite me the best. I don´t want a ruthless system that make 65% of CD´s sound like bright and sterile because they are extremely analytical. This is what I find the hardest to balance. But I like my music loud and I´m mostly looking a bigger speakers because I want that BIG sound which can bring me to my knees I want to be overwhelmed and washed with sounds. I have all my music in FLAC / WAV.

Raidho D5 bassproblems?
http://www.audioshark.org/hometown-meet-greet-170/absolute-pure-magic-raidho-d5-5831-page2.html

Any suggestions?
 
Akatora - welcome to AS. It's difficult for someone else to tell you what speakers will emotionally connect you to the music. It's often a very synergistic thing - amps, source, cabling, room, good power, etc. all play a key role.

Remember, "One Man's Meat is another Man's Poison."

When you're listening, are you finding that you are placing speakers into one of two categories: Audiophile/Hi-Fi vs Musical/Engaging? Have you heard the same speakers with different gear? For example, what did you hear the Focal speakers with? I find with tubes, Class A amps, NAIM or Devialet they are very engaging.

As you listen longer, are you still as engaged as you were in the first 2 minutes? Can you see yourself listening for 5 hours fatigue free? Are you willing to give up some hi-fi characteristics in exchange for a more engaging experience?

Raidho makes a wonderful speaker, but in SOME rooms, with SOME equipment, they can provide a bass integration challenge. But again, for some people, Raidho is the end all and be all, for others, it isn't their cup of tea.

Have you determined WHAT connects you to the music? Is it a wooden cabinet tuned and resonating to a specific frequency range (Sonus Faber, Harbeth, etc.). Is it a specific type of tweeter (i.e. Ribbon)? Is it the tube gear? Is it a system (speaker, amp, cabling, source) that covers up and masks bad recordings?

Start to pay attention to the other things, the peripheral things, that are also connecting you to the music. Is it tubes? What kind of tubes? 300b SET? KT150? 211 push-pull? Is it solid state? What kind of solid-state? Class A? AB? A specific brand like Soulution or McIntosh? What about the source: vinyl vs digital? Do you feel this connection with ALL genres of music or just some?

It's difficult for someone else to say "akatora, you will be brought to your knees crying with joy if you buy these X brand of speakers".

Generally speaking for me, I've been most engaged with tube equipment and vinyl. But I've had wonderful engaging listening experiences with a wide variety of speakers.

Once you really start to drill down on what engages you, you will then start to uncover your secret sauce.
 
In Sweden the Raidho would be a lot easier to get serviced if you ever had a problem . From your listing notes I think two brands you might like YG and Nola.

The Estalon from Estonia I have not heard the top model but the next two down from it are very good and not that far from you next door if you are in the North of Sweden.

Getting it fixed Should cross more of our minds than it does I have a turntable that will be Hell on earth to ship back to Germany from Canada at 770 lbs should it ever break.
 
My criteria in speakers :)

1. Big tight bass and low end dynamic slam that pressurizes the room.
2. A completely transparent, uncongested, you are there mid range with spooky presence.
3. A smooth and extended, crystal clear high end that never offends.
4. With 102db efficiency.


2 out of 4 is easy. 3 out of 4 is expensive. and 4 out of 4 is very
expensive and very rare.
 
These are the speakers that I´ve listened to:


*TAD Reference 1 MK1 with all TAD electronics:


Very good and some emotional connection, but I would honestly say that some lesser recordings sounds very shrill on the system. The speakers might be better off with a pre-amp with warmer character I don´t know.


*Raidho D3 - Now these speakers really suits me, they are VERY musical but very expensive and might have some limited dynamics, but they are the best speakers I´ve listened to that I can remember. I did listen to D5 in Denmark since I meet with Lars and Michael.


*Sonus Faber Cremona M - Pretty good, very musical, but it was so long ago so I can´t remember. I like them, but they might be a bit slow and too warm.


*Magico S5 with Devialte - Very flat and cold sounding but impressive bass. They might be very good with other electronics, but the shop did not have too much to alter with.


*B&W 800 with Classe - Very good, but not very refined as Raidho or TAD.


*Giya 1 with electronic I can´t remember:
Very good as well, looks are…special.


I´ve listened to some more speakers like Focal Diablo, Dali etc. but can´t recall the sound or it was not too special to memorize.


I don´t think Wilson is something for me from what I´ve heard.


Speakers I want to listen to:


Vandersteen 7
Focal Grande EM
Rockport
Magico S7

What I´m looking for in a speaker:


Dynamic
Resolving without being harsh
Able to turn up the volume without loss of detail and dynamics
I want be able to play all music! I hate comments like ”What music do you listen to? or "These speakers are not made for techno”

Be emotionally involved

I have all my music in FLAC so for me it´s computer based playback.

I want big speakers that can fill a room with a ”wall of sound”
 
Thanks for the reply Mike! Yes I know I love tubes, I recall listening to a setup here in Sweden at a show where they had Audio Note speakers together with a pair of VERY expensive tube mono block. Mind blown!

The one thing I don´t like is when bad recordings sounds like shit and is not listenable, so overly analytical sound, fatiguing treble and flat sound is something I hate.
 
akatora said:
My criteria in speakers :)

1. Big tight bass and low end dynamic slam that pressurizes the room.
2. A completely transparent, uncongested, you are there mid range with spooky presence.
3. A smooth and extended, crystal clear high end that never offends.
4. With 102db efficiency.


2 out of 4 is easy. 3 out of 4 is expensive. and 4 out of 4 is very
expensive and very rare.
Click to expand...

Exactly 102db efficiency?
 
No off course not, but around 90-100db would be preferable :)

Let me know if you know any candidates.

One solution would be to combine subs with a speaker as well. I´m open to everything.
 
akatora said:
No off course not, but around 90-100db would be preferable :)

Let me know if you know any candidates.

One solution would be to combine subs with a speaker as well. I´m open to everything.
Click to expand...

Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD (I own these). These best match your description IMO.
Tannoy Westminister GR

These are high efficiency speakers I really really like.
 
I have to find a retailer here in Sweden that carries Avantgarde then, thanks Mike. I care a lot for your input since I know you´ve owned a lot of different speakers.

Can you share a bit about your experience with them and what made you chose these? I know you had Raidho and maybe Magico?
 
If you want all of that PLUS ridiculous efficiency, then I'd second Mikes recommendation.
 
akatora said:
I live in Sweden and here we have a few really good Hi-Fi dealers which can offer great brands, but not everything is available.
Click to expand...

Hi akatora,

Have you ever listened to the Audio Physic Aventera Plus+ ?

attachment.php


http://www.audiophysic.com/avantera_plus/index_e.html


-- or --

The Canton Reference series?

attachment.php


https://www.canton.de/en/cat/index/sCategory/37


If you have, what are your thoughts on them?
 

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akatora said:
I have to find a retailer here in Sweden that carries Avantgarde then, thanks Mike. I care a lot for your input since I know you´ve owned a lot of different speakers.

Can you share a bit about your experience with them and what made you chose these? I know you had Raidho and maybe Magico?
Click to expand...

I've owned more speakers than I care to recall: Raidho, Magico, Wilson, Focal, B&W, Avantgarde, Dali, Living Voice, Magnepan, Sonus Faber, Revel, Tannoy, Spatial and many - many more.

Every speaker has it's pro's and con's. Once you realize that no speaker is perfect, you can begin to focus on what's important to you. Most importantly, you need to focus on a speaker that works well in your room. That's is so critical. I've owned many speakers that I've loved in multiple auditioning rooms, but they didn't work in my room.

You also need to determine synergy with your electronics. Are you a SET tube guy? Big monoblock SS guy? Push-pull tube guy? What? If you are talking about "at least 102db efficient" - than your choices are more limited.

Then you need to look at the cabinet. Do you want the cabinet to be tuned and resonate and provide a colored sound like Harbeth, Sonus Faber or Tannoy? Do you want to completely minimize things to the point of almost eliminating cabinet resonances? Then you look at Magico. Do you want no cabinet at all? Well, then you look at open baffle speakers, Maggies, Martin Logans and technically, Avantgarde among others.

You also have to consider that speakers and speaker manufacturers are constantly evolving. Raidho is out with the new Dx.1 series (can't wait to hear it at CES this week). With trickle down effects from the M Projects, Magico speakers are sounding sublime. I love the sound of the S7 and look forward to hearing the new S5 mk2 and S1 mk2 this week. Paired with Soulution, Vitus or Pass - they are awesome.

Avantgarde's new XD series was a 5 year R&D project. The results are a complete elimination of any previous "horn" issues. The bass is completely adjustable to the last possible option you could dream of - making them work in any room. Horns are also directional speakers, therefore further eliminating traditional room issues. But sensitive speakers require attention - a lot of attention - to the littlest things. Proper grounding, dedicated AC, cables, component noise, etc. all make a HUGE HUGE difference. You hear EVERY weak link in the chain. But if you're willing to work at it, once you get it right, the results will bring you to your knees and cry with joy! :)

Good luck in your search, but honestly, no one here can tell you what you will ultimately like. You need to get out and listen. Don't be too judgmental at first. Hear things multiple times if you can and always keep in mind "how will these sound in my room, in my system, with my gear?"

Good luck!
 
It's so very personal. For me Maggies pull me into the flow.
 
akatora said:
My criteria in speakers :)

1. Big tight bass and low end dynamic slam that pressurizes the room.
2. A completely transparent, uncongested, you are there mid range with spooky presence.
3. A smooth and extended, crystal clear high end that never offends.
4. With 102db (90-100db) efficiency.
Click to expand...

JBL K2 S9900, one of the most fun and engaging speakers I heard; I think they match all these 4 criteria.
 
Mike said:
I've owned more speakers than I care to recall: Raidho, Magico, Wilson, Focal, B&W, Avantgarde, Dali, Living Voice, Magnepan, Sonus Faber, Revel, Tannoy, Spatial and many - many more.

Every speaker has it's pro's and con's. Once you realize that no speaker is perfect, you can begin to focus on what's important to you. Most importantly, you need to focus on a speaker that works well in your room. That's is so critical. I've owned many speakers that I've loved in multiple auditioning rooms, but they didn't work in my room.

You also need to determine synergy with your electronics. Are you a SET tube guy? Big monoblock SS guy? Push-pull tube guy? What? If you are talking about "at least 102db efficient" - than your choices are more limited.

Then you need to look at the cabinet. Do you want the cabinet to be tuned and resonate and provide a colored sound like Harbeth, Sonus Faber or Tannoy? Do you want to completely minimize things to the point of almost eliminating cabinet resonances? Then you look at Magico. Do you want no cabinet at all? Well, then you look at open baffle speakers, Maggies, Martin Logans and technically, Avantgarde among others.

You also have to consider that speakers and speaker manufacturers are constantly evolving. Raidho is out with the new Dx.1 series (can't wait to hear it at CES this week). With trickle down effects from the M Projects, Magico speakers are sounding sublime. I love the sound of the S7 and look forward to hearing the new S5 mk2 and S1 mk2 this week. Paired with Soulution, Vitus or Pass - they are awesome.

Avantgarde's new XD series was a 5 year R&D project. The results are a complete elimination of any previous "horn" issues. The bass is completely adjustable to the last possible option you could dream of - making them work in any room. Horns are also directional speakers, therefore further eliminating traditional room issues. But sensitive speakers require attention - a lot of attention - to the littlest things. Proper grounding, dedicated AC, cables, component noise, etc. all make a HUGE HUGE difference. You hear EVERY weak link in the chain. But if you're willing to work at it, once you get it right, the results will bring you to your knees and cry with joy! :)

Good luck in your search, but honestly, no one here can tell you what you will ultimately like. You need to get out and listen. Don't be too judgmental at first. Hear things multiple times if you can and always keep in mind "how will these sound in my room, in my system, with my gear?"

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Just wanted to say this is one of the best replies I've seen on any audio forum. I wish I could have read this a couple of years ago when I started getting in to this crazy audio hobby. There are so many variables and so many possibilities that I don't know of any other hobby or sport or what have you that has the amount of options or so many particulars that home audio has. And even when you think you've got everything dialed in and its the best sounding system in the world your friends could come over and think "meh..." Everybody hears or experiences the music/sound differently.

Anyway, good luck to the OP in your search!
 
Mike said:
I've owned more speakers than I care to recall: Raidho, Magico, Wilson, Focal, B&W, Avantgarde, Dali, Living Voice, Magnepan, Sonus Faber, Revel, Tannoy, Spatial and many - many more.

Every speaker has it's pro's and con's. Once you realize that no speaker is perfect, you can begin to focus on what's important to you. Most importantly, you need to focus on a speaker that works well in your room. That's is so critical. I've owned many speakers that I've loved in multiple auditioning rooms, but they didn't work in my room.

You also need to determine synergy with your electronics. Are you a SET tube guy? Big monoblock SS guy? Push-pull tube guy? What? If you are talking about "at least 102db efficient" - than your choices are more limited.

Then you need to look at the cabinet. Do you want the cabinet to be tuned and resonate and provide a colored sound like Harbeth, Sonus Faber or Tannoy? Do you want to completely minimize things to the point of almost eliminating cabinet resonances? Then you look at Magico. Do you want no cabinet at all? Well, then you look at open baffle speakers, Maggies, Martin Logans and technically, Avantgarde among others.

You also have to consider that speakers and speaker manufacturers are constantly evolving. Raidho is out with the new Dx.1 series (can't wait to hear it at CES this week). With trickle down effects from the M Projects, Magico speakers are sounding sublime. I love the sound of the S7 and look forward to hearing the new S5 mk2 and S1 mk2 this week. Paired with Soulution, Vitus or Pass - they are awesome.

Avantgarde's new XD series was a 5 year R&D project. The results are a complete elimination of any previous "horn" issues. The bass is completely adjustable to the last possible option you could dream of - making them work in any room. Horns are also directional speakers, therefore further eliminating traditional room issues. But sensitive speakers require attention - a lot of attention - to the littlest things. Proper grounding, dedicated AC, cables, component noise, etc. all make a HUGE HUGE difference. You hear EVERY weak link in the chain. But if you're willing to work at it, once you get it right, the results will bring you to your knees and cry with joy! :)

Good luck in your search, but honestly, no one here can tell you what you will ultimately like. You need to get out and listen. Don't be too judgmental at first. Hear things multiple times if you can and always keep in mind "how will these sound in my room, in my system, with my gear?"

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to create this post Mike. There are so many variables to get our arms around before we can even start to narrow our purchasing decisions in this hobby.
 
akatora said:
My criteria in speakers :)

1. Big tight bass and low end dynamic slam that pressurizes the room.
2. A completely transparent, uncongested, you are there mid range with spooky presence.
3. A smooth and extended, crystal clear high end that never offends.
4. With 102db efficiency.


2 out of 4 is easy. 3 out of 4 is expensive. and 4 out of 4 is very
expensive and very rare.
Click to expand...

How about some Acapella High Violins

http://www.acapella.de/en/hornspeakers/violon_mk_IV.php

91db. Wonderful speakers
 
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