So happy with my digital...finally

Getting back on track here...

Congrats, Mike, that sounds like an amazing system. :thumbsup:

With respect to Omega, you might consider trying the new Omega QR-s PC for your DAC as well.
 
..Esoteric is reportedly coming out with a new ultimate reference clock (G1X)...

Given what Cybershaft are doing it would be hard to justify pulling the trigger on G1X unless you were splashed with cash and really wanted the eye candy option for eye candy sake. I would love to own a G1X but my next clock will be a Cybershaft, hidden in the bowels of my audio rack.
 
Given what Cybershaft are doing it would be hard to justify pulling the trigger on G1X unless you were splashed with cash and really wanted the eye candy option for eye candy sake. I would love to own a G1X but my next clock will be a Cybershaft, hidden in the bowels of my audio rack.

I want to see the specs of the G1X. It may outperform the Cybershaft. Who knows?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Congrats Mike!

Not surprised about the results Mike is hearing from the top shelf Esoteric digital components. Like Mike, I have an all MBL pre, amps and speakers system.

Several months ago I brought home the new Esoteric N01XD for a trial. I posted the results elsewhere on AS, but, in summary, it easily bested my current streamer and elevated the overall performance of my system. The folks at Esoteric have raised their game. And, the synergy with MBL is fabulous.
 
i'm guessing that the synergy in Mike's MBL system is amp<->dac related. or maybe amp/speaker <-> dac related.

but since it likely requires those big MBL amps to properly light up the MBL 101's, then there you are.
 
i'm guessing that the synergy in Mike's MBL system is amp<->dac related. or maybe amp/speaker <-> dac related.

but since it likely requires those big MBL amps to properly light up the MBL Extreme's, then there you are. were you to use a different set of amps then the equation would likely change. you might need a quad set of different amps. a challenging scenario.

Yes, that's absolutely true. Cables too.
 
This is a very interesting thread and one can see from the responses why it is so difficult to identify what the impact of any single component on the sound of our systems.

Some of this goes back to the debate of how we prioritize the components in our set-ups. (After treating your room and insuring clean power) I am in the camp of:
1- Selecting a speaker that works well "in your room"
2- Amps that get the most out of the speakers.
3- Source components
4- Cables that get you closer to the sound you are looking for.

As Mike OP notes far too often judgements are made on components/speakers without considering how they are interacting with the rest of a set-up. I think he and Mike B. (Ritmo) noted how difficult it is to match non-MBL gear with MBL speakers. I would probably own 101e MK II's right now if I didn't truly believe I would have to move from my Momentum's to 9000 series MBL amps. Even though I believe that M-400's should be "included" in any discussion of Best Amps I think 101's and Xtreme's will always sound best with 9000 series amps. MBL's are not easy speakers to control.

Another interesting comment from Ken in Post #20 relates to MSB "detail". I have not had the Select DAC in my set-up so I can only comment on the Reference version. When A/B'ing the Reference versus Vivaldi the MSB was absolutely stunning on vocals. The Reference DAC cleaned up something, call it hash if you want, that accompanied vocals. It was one of those things you did not know was there 'till it was gone. Detail is where the MSB trailed. At the time I posted my thoughts I noted one example where birds could be heard at the beginning of one track with the Vivaldi, yet you could barely make them out with the Reference DAC. In this comparison if one was choosing DAC system based on vocals and price, just the way most purchasers lean, the Reference wins out. If you are looking for extracting all of the detail in a recording and you were willing to spend a bit more, the Vivaldi could be the choice. Since most of us are not starting from ground zero others factors come into play.
 
Well, after chatting with Mike in the background a fair amount in recent weeks, I think it is appropriate for me to contribute to this forum my experience with the K1X/PS1/Cybershaft setup, by combining and editing several posts I made on another forum.

I recently replaced an Esoteric D02/P02/G01 stack with an Esoteric K1X/PS1/Cybershaft OP21A/Ultra Pure PS setup. For me, the K1X is a revelation, especially in combination with the PS1 and the Cybershaft clock and PS. To my ears, the sound I am getting is better than what I have heard from both a DCS Vivaldi stack and a Nagra HD DAC X in a system with the same electronics as mine with Magico M3 speakers, and is in the same league (at least at first blush) as what I heard at MagicoÂ’s facility from a system consisting of MSB Select II feeding CH Precision M1 monos (might have been M1.1s) and Magico M6 speakers. To be fair, I listened to this last system for only an hour, using music I know well, and some cuts chosen by Alon Wolf. It could well be the case that if I had spent significant time with it, I may be more or less willing to state that the sound I am getting is in the same league as that being produced by the system at MagicoÂ’s facility.

In any event, what I hear from the K1X is music with a transparency, organic immediacy, unetched detail, tonal density, three dimensionality, openness and incredibly well articulated, center of the earth bass that is only matched by the system I heard at Magico. It goes without saying that there are plenty of great systems with great digital front ends I have not heard. But I sure do love what I am hearing. Interestingly, I am getting this sound, which largely mirror's Mike's experience, in a system that incudes electronics and speakers that are very different than Mike's, especially the speakers and electronics.

The other equipment in my system includes a Baetis Ref server (soon to be replaced by a Taiko SGM Extreme), Spectral DMC 30SV pre/DMA 500 AR mono amps, MIT SHD interconnects and speaker cable and Magico M Project speakers. Clock cables are Shunyata Sigma v1. Looking forward to getting the v2 version, or perhaps the Omega version :-). I also own a Spectral 4000SV CD player, and while it is higher resolution than the Esoteric P02/D02/G01 on redbook CD and creates a wonderful synergy when used in an all Spectral SV topology setup, it is clearly bested by the new rig and has been largely collecting dust of late. For those who are interested in some clock comparisons, and the relative contribution of the Cybershaft vs the PS1, read on.

Before selling the G01, I tried using it with the K1X and found that whereas the G01 was necessary for the D02/P02 to sound highly resolving and musical (rather than fairly resolving and a touch too analytical, which they did without the clock), it did not provide the K1X with a clear improvement. Indeed, I slightly preferred the K1X without the G01, although my wife (a jazz vocalist with an excellent ear) slightly preferred it with the G01. By contrast, the Cybershaft clock and itÂ’s PS made a dramatic improvement to the sound of the K1X, which already sounded streets ahead of the older stack. This improvement was in the nature of greatly enhanced spatial resolution and transparency. It was more impactful than the addition of the Esoteric PS1, which I would characterize as being akin to going from a great stereo amp to a pair of monoblocks based on the same circuit design (larger soundstage and better low end and better dynamics). Further, adding the G01 to control my DCS Network Bridge as a Word Clock generator while slaved to the Cybershaft added no noticeable improvement as compared to not having the G01 in the system. I appreciate that the G01 is not the latest offering from Esoteric, but it is the data point that I have.

What I did not do was wait the presumably 200 hours or whatever the burn in period is for the K1X before adding the clock and the PS1. Rather, I had the K1X for about ten days before I had the clock, and it was another week or so before the PS1 showed up. During the period from getting the K1X and finally the PS1, I was only semi-diligent about burning in the new pieces. So it is reasonable to conclude that some (significant) improvements continued to take place in each component in addition to compounding improvements being realized by the addition of the clock and then the PS1. Indeed, the whole setup does seem to me to be getting better still. I have also not gone back and tried the K1X with the PS1 but without the clock, or with the clock and without the PS1 now that they have undergone perhaps 100 hours of use. So, my inquiry is far from being as methodical as it might be. That said, I am pretty confident in my conclusion that forced to choose I would take the clock over the PS1.
 
This is a very interesting thread and one can see from the responses why it is so difficult to identify what the impact of any single component on the sound of our systems.

Some of this goes back to the debate of how we prioritize the components in our set-ups. (After treating your room and insuring clean power) I am in the camp of:
1- Selecting a speaker that works well "in your room"
2- Amps that get the most out of the speakers.
3- Source components
4- Cables that get you closer to the sound you are looking for.

As Mike OP notes far too often judgements are made on components/speakers without considering how they are interacting with the rest of a set-up. I think he and Mike B. (Ritmo) noted how difficult it is to match non-MBL gear with MBL speakers. I would probably own 101e MK II's right now if I didn't truly believe I would have to move from my Momentum's to 9000 series MBL amps. Even though I believe that M-400's should be "included" in any discussion of Best Amps I think 101's and Xtreme's will always sound best with 9000 series amps. MBL's are not easy speakers to control.

Another interesting comment from Ken in Post #20 relates to MSB "detail". I have not had the Select DAC in my set-up so I can only comment on the Reference version. When A/B'ing the Reference versus Vivaldi the MSB was absolutely stunning on vocals. The Reference DAC cleaned up something, call it hash if you want, that accompanied vocals. It was one of those things you did not know was there 'till it was gone. Detail is where the MSB trailed. At the time I posted my thoughts I noted one example where birds could be heard at the beginning of one track with the Vivaldi, yet you could barely make them out with the Reference DAC. In this comparison if one was choosing DAC system based on vocals and price, just the way most purchasers lean, the Reference wins out. If you are looking for extracting all of the detail in a recording and you were willing to spend a bit more, the Vivaldi could be the choice. Since most of us are not starting from ground zero others factors come into play.

Jim,
Could you let me know the name of the song with the chirping of the birds in the beginning? It will be a good test for my system.
Thanks,
Anshul
 
Jim,
Could you let me know the name of the song with the chirping of the birds in the beginning? It will be a good test for my system.
Thanks,
Anshul

On Ummagumma/ Grantchester Meadows from Pink Floyd there’s some chirping at the beginning, and throughout the song.

But that’s probably not the song, because if you wouldn’t hear that chirping clearly and well differentiated with a 90K DAC, you’d been profoundly screwed [emoji3]. It’s a great audiophile track anyway.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Well, after chatting with Mike in the background a fair amount in recent weeks, I think it is appropriate for me to contribute to this forum my experience with the K1X/PS1/Cybershaft setup, by combining and editing several posts I made on another forum.

I recently replaced an Esoteric D02/P02/G01 stack with an Esoteric K1X/PS1/Cybershaft OP21A/Ultra Pure PS setup. For me, the K1X is a revelation, especially in combination with the PS1 and the Cybershaft clock and PS. To my ears, the sound I am getting is better than what I have heard from both a DCS Vivaldi stack and a Nagra HD DAC X in a system with the same electronics as mine with Magico M3 speakers, and is in the same league (at least at first blush) as what I heard at MagicoÂ’s facility from a system consisting of MSB Select II feeding CH Precision M1 monos (might have been M1.1s) and Magico M6 speakers. To be fair, I listened to this last system for only an hour, using music I know well, and some cuts chosen by Alon Wolf. It could well be the case that if I had spent significant time with it, I may be more or less willing to state that the sound I am getting is in the same league as that being produced by the system at MagicoÂ’s facility.

In any event, what I hear from the K1X is music with a transparency, organic immediacy, unetched detail, tonal density, three dimensionality, openness and incredibly well articulated, center of the earth bass that is only matched by the system I heard at Magico. It goes without saying that there are plenty of great systems with great digital front ends I have not heard. But I sure do love what I am hearing. Interestingly, I am getting this sound, which largely mirror's Mike's experience, in a system that incudes electronics and speakers that are very different than Mike's, especially the speakers and electronics.

The other equipment in my system includes a Baetis Ref server (soon to be replaced by a Taiko SGM Extreme), Spectral DMC 30SV pre/DMA 500 AR mono amps, MIT SHD interconnects and speaker cable and Magico M Project speakers. Clock cables are Shunyata Sigma v1. Looking forward to getting the v2 version, or perhaps the Omega version :-). I also own a Spectral 4000SV CD player, and while it is higher resolution than the Esoteric P02/D02/G01 on redbook CD and creates a wonderful synergy when used in an all Spectral SV topology setup, it is clearly bested by the new rig and has been largely collecting dust of late. For those who are interested in some clock comparisons, and the relative contribution of the Cybershaft vs the PS1, read on.

Before selling the G01, I tried using it with the K1X and found that whereas the G01 was necessary for the D02/P02 to sound highly resolving and musical (rather than fairly resolving and a touch too analytical, which they did without the clock), it did not provide the K1X with a clear improvement. Indeed, I slightly preferred the K1X without the G01, although my wife (a jazz vocalist with an excellent ear) slightly preferred it with the G01. By contrast, the Cybershaft clock and itÂ’s PS made a dramatic improvement to the sound of the K1X, which already sounded streets ahead of the older stack. This improvement was in the nature of greatly enhanced spatial resolution and transparency. It was more impactful than the addition of the Esoteric PS1, which I would characterize as being akin to going from a great stereo amp to a pair of monoblocks based on the same circuit design (larger soundstage and better low end and better dynamics). Further, adding the G01 to control my DCS Network Bridge as a Word Clock generator while slaved to the Cybershaft added no noticeable improvement as compared to not having the G01 in the system. I appreciate that the G01 is not the latest offering from Esoteric, but it is the data point that I have.

What I did not do was wait the presumably 200 hours or whatever the burn in period is for the K1X before adding the clock and the PS1. Rather, I had the K1X for about ten days before I had the clock, and it was another week or so before the PS1 showed up. During the period from getting the K1X and finally the PS1, I was only semi-diligent about burning in the new pieces. So it is reasonable to conclude that some (significant) improvements continued to take place in each component in addition to compounding improvements being realized by the addition of the clock and then the PS1. Indeed, the whole setup does seem to me to be getting better still. I have also not gone back and tried the K1X with the PS1 but without the clock, or with the clock and without the PS1 now that they have undergone perhaps 100 hours of use. So, my inquiry is far from being as methodical as it might be. That said, I am pretty confident in my conclusion that forced to choose I would take the clock over the PS1.

Thanks for your post. Interesting comments. I owned the Grandioso K1 and found it to be very musical with a warm and organic presentation. When I added the Grandioso G1 Clock, I got quite a bit more detail and clarity but the musicality to my ears went way down. I was frustrated with this result, so I traded in the Grandioso K1/G1 for the MSB Select DAC, which gave me both a high level of detail and musicality. Had I not purchased the Grandioso G1 Clock, I would probably still own the Grandioso K1, although I may have upgraded, yet again, to the Grandioso K1X. Maybe the Cybershaft Clock is just plain better than the Esoteric Clock.

Ken
 
Jim,
Could you let me know the name of the song with the chirping of the birds in the beginning? It will be a good test for my system.
Thanks,
Anshul

See Post #79 in this thread should you care for additional details. MSB Reference DAC

The song was Melody Gardot's "After The Rain"

An aside, my local dealer and I have discussed performing another A/B in my set-up. Awhile back they swapped out the Femto 77 for the Femto 33 clock.
 
Thanks for your post. Interesting comments. I owned the Grandioso K1 and found it to be very musical with a warm and organic presentation. When I added the Grandioso G1 Clock, I got quite a bit more detail and clarity but the musicality to my ears went way down. I was frustrated with this result, so I traded in the Grandioso K1/G1 for the MSB Select DAC, which gave me both a high level of detail and musicality. Had I not purchased the Grandioso G1 Clock, I would probably still own the Grandioso K1, although I may have upgraded, yet again, to the Grandioso K1X. Maybe the Cybershaft Clock is just plain better than the Esoteric Clock.

Ken

Ken, I think it may well be the case, especially due to Cybershaft's focus on phase noise and short term accuracy. But, I only have experience with the G01, and presumably the G1 represents a step forward, albeit at a price that is 4x that of the top of the line Cybershaft kit. I also think it is the case that the internal clocks in Esoteric DACs continue to improve (see my comments re the G01 not providing a clear cut improvement vs the K1X alone, contrary to my experience in adding it to the P02/D02 pair). That said, I think the new DAC design in the current generation of Esoteric players and DACs is a real advancement over the prior AKM-based DACs. As a whole, the reviews of these new devices would seem to indicate that this new architecture results in sound that has a lot in common with R2R based DACs, perhaps placing Esoteric in closer competition to TotalDac and the upper echelon MSB DACs. In fact, my plan had been to get the Esoteric because I have a lot of SACDs, and then also audition the TotalDac D1-Twerlve-Mk2 for playing local files and streaming. However, while I remain curious about that DAC, the sound I am getting is so satisfying, I have instead opted to acquire a Taiko Audio SGM Extreme server as a next step and see what improvements it makes, before trying the TotalDac.

Baird
 
Good stuff. Esoteric is such a nice brand. I have great memories of their lower end SACD players from 10+ years ago.

I may have an opportunity to buy a second hand N01XD and I am awfully tempted since I already own a Cybershaft OP21a with external LPS...

I can see myself connecting it to my new Mojo Deja Vu Evo server through the Jcat XE USB output. Of course I bought a Shunyata Sigma USB cable days before the announcement of the Omega... :-)
 
I am hesitant because the Devialet has an excellent built-in dac and does convert analog inputs to digital internally.

But there are quite a few reports of Totaldac/Devialet owners feeling that the external dac still helps gaining an additional bit of sound quality...

Tough choices...
 
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