Shunyata Launches - ALTAIRA GROUNDING SYSTEM!!
- Thread starter Mike
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kzhtoo
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The answer is both. [emoji16] They are completely different ways of improving the sonics. Mutually exclusive.
Dizzie
Well-known member
"Exclusive"? :hmmm: I think you meant to say "complementary". At least that is the concept as I understand it.
I am waiting for the first 25 Shark owners to say :thumbsup: or :fingers:
stevebythebay
New member
My dealer, Music Lovers out here in Berkeley was trained a number of months ago. And they came out a few weeks ago to determine a) what components would "play" nicely with the Altaira. Ultimately my collection of gear would do well with only about 3-4 digital devices. And that specifically meant using the Altaira CG box since I wouldn't be segmenting my system or in need of more than 6 cables. The main components I've been using/testing are dCS DAC, dCS Upsampler and an Uptone etherREGEN network switch. Will add in a dCS Clock today to see if it does much for what I've already experienced. What I have heard so far has been a quieter system, able to pull out more details and consequently providing greater apparent dynamic contrasts and clarity across the board.
Dizzie
Well-known member
Steve, was the improvement commensurate with the cost? I have gotten similar but minor results with a few hundred dollars in isolation footers. Many thousands of dollars and a new box and more wires demands serious improvement before I go there.
stevebythebay
New member
The whole area of grounding is a bit mysterious to most of us. This guide is nice in terms of what the Shunyata power distributors do https://shunyata.com/download/15436/ in this area. The power distributors only deal with chassis ground, not signal ground. The new Altaira documentation delves into how this technology seeks to mitigate noise in a more targeted way, especially for signal grounding, rather than the ground plane noise reduction works for the power distributors.
Dealers trained on the tech will be in the best position to help customers properly setup and test their own environment. I personally came to understand that none of my analog gear would play, for a variety of reasons, into the Altaira solution. So, your own system is determinant of what will work.
Dealers trained on the tech will be in the best position to help customers properly setup and test their own environment. I personally came to understand that none of my analog gear would play, for a variety of reasons, into the Altaira solution. So, your own system is determinant of what will work.
stevebythebay
New member
What you point out is exactly why you must use a dealer who's been trained by Shunyata to visit you with their kit of CG and SG and all the possible cabling and tails of various types and lengths. This is not just a simple matter of plug 'n play.
Sorry if that's a bit disconcerting, but that's reality. I've had my share of try and buy which often leads to making quick and ultimately poor decisions. If you cannot or are unwilling to do so, then don't bother. As is often said at the gym - "no pain, no gain".
kzhtoo
Active member
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My bad. Meant to say NOT mutually exclusive. You can get both devices and they won’t get in the way of each other.
IMHO, starting with chassis ground is fine (CG-NR). But I’m curious why Steve also didn’t add a signal ground (SG-NR) to the dcs stack and etherregen? That can sometimes be more pronounced than what is described from using chassis grounding only(?)
Also, why not signal/chassis grounding on preamp?
Also, why not signal/chassis grounding on preamp?
stevebythebay
New member
The chassis ground covers the initial 6 attached devices and is recommended strongly for such applications. As you can see from my signature I’ve quite a few potential candidates for the Altaira. And if all could be deployed I would have used a pair of the signal ground versions, splitting them in the recommended manner - one for analog and the other for digital.
When my dealer came, the first thing he did was to “survey” all and use his multimeter to check each component. Turns out my Spectral gear does not play well with any external grounding (the amps rely on the preamp for grounding protection and it’s even necessary to float these mono block’s ground to The AC wall receptacle).
A nasty surprise awaited us when attempting to connect the Spectral preamp to the Altaira. Turning on one of the mono block amps resulted in a noise I do not wish to hear again. So, do not think about messing with Spectral’s ground! They have their own highly sensitive “ecosystem”.
That left only my powered subs, which it turns out, are internally grounded. So, that left me with the DAC, Upsampler, a pair of clocks, network switch, and a couple of LPS’s.
After lots of actual listening it became clear that testing chassis ground for the LPS’s yielded zero benefit - no great surprise there.
Connecting the dCS DAC and Upsampler yielded benefits. However,
connecting the dCS Clock via BNC yielded a less favorable result than not connecting at all. Given the nature of how the clock must be operating vis a vis the DAC and Upsampler, an impact of some kind creates a lack of coherence in the sonic image.
The Uptone etherREGEN network switch benefits from grounding as well as using an external clock, and it was the most obvious candidate for the Altaira. And it proved very much the case. This is by design. At Uptone, John made specific propionate for external grounding and circuitry for external master clock. The etherREGEN, as well as dCS Clock are “commanded” by the Cybershaft clock.
What was unexpected happened when I connected an available port on the Cybershaft clock to the Altaira, and set all the individual wired output grounding switches on the clock: to chassis ground, from isolated. The overall sonic benefits I’d heard to that point improved a bit more.
Sorry for the lengthy post but I hoped to provide a real play-by-play of how and a bit of why each home environment can differ.
When my dealer came, the first thing he did was to “survey” all and use his multimeter to check each component. Turns out my Spectral gear does not play well with any external grounding (the amps rely on the preamp for grounding protection and it’s even necessary to float these mono block’s ground to The AC wall receptacle).
A nasty surprise awaited us when attempting to connect the Spectral preamp to the Altaira. Turning on one of the mono block amps resulted in a noise I do not wish to hear again. So, do not think about messing with Spectral’s ground! They have their own highly sensitive “ecosystem”.
That left only my powered subs, which it turns out, are internally grounded. So, that left me with the DAC, Upsampler, a pair of clocks, network switch, and a couple of LPS’s.
After lots of actual listening it became clear that testing chassis ground for the LPS’s yielded zero benefit - no great surprise there.
Connecting the dCS DAC and Upsampler yielded benefits. However,
connecting the dCS Clock via BNC yielded a less favorable result than not connecting at all. Given the nature of how the clock must be operating vis a vis the DAC and Upsampler, an impact of some kind creates a lack of coherence in the sonic image.
The Uptone etherREGEN network switch benefits from grounding as well as using an external clock, and it was the most obvious candidate for the Altaira. And it proved very much the case. This is by design. At Uptone, John made specific propionate for external grounding and circuitry for external master clock. The etherREGEN, as well as dCS Clock are “commanded” by the Cybershaft clock.
What was unexpected happened when I connected an available port on the Cybershaft clock to the Altaira, and set all the individual wired output grounding switches on the clock: to chassis ground, from isolated. The overall sonic benefits I’d heard to that point improved a bit more.
Sorry for the lengthy post but I hoped to provide a real play-by-play of how and a bit of why each home environment can differ.
Dizzie
Well-known member
Mike,
Steve's post got me thinking. Would the "multimeter survey" always be the same for a component or would it depend upon the individual hook up situation (main power and power conditioning in use)?
If the multimeter test would always be the same it might be possible to create a master list of how specific equipment responds to Altaira chassis grounding. Wishful thinking.
Steve's post got me thinking. Would the "multimeter survey" always be the same for a component or would it depend upon the individual hook up situation (main power and power conditioning in use)?
If the multimeter test would always be the same it might be possible to create a master list of how specific equipment responds to Altaira chassis grounding. Wishful thinking.
stevebythebay
New member
Best to review the docs: ALTAIRA Road Map - Shunyata Research and in particular: https://shunyata.com//wp-content/up...TAIRA-Component-Continuity-Test-Worksheet.pdf
Note that you're measuring very specific points as you answer the questions in order. For example, in my case with my powered subs, I have neither a dedicated ground terminal nor dedicated ground pin (only using a two prong cable into the sub). So not a candidate for Altaira.
By the way, for components with numerous input/output connections, it might, and I say might, be both possible and beneficial to use multiple grounding cables from the component to an Altaira. But it again comes down to testing.
Note that you're measuring very specific points as you answer the questions in order. For example, in my case with my powered subs, I have neither a dedicated ground terminal nor dedicated ground pin (only using a two prong cable into the sub). So not a candidate for Altaira.
By the way, for components with numerous input/output connections, it might, and I say might, be both possible and beneficial to use multiple grounding cables from the component to an Altaira. But it again comes down to testing.
Thank you, noted. I also float my Spectral amps as instructed, and I can also hear and measure ground leakage if I connect their grounds, using my phono which will hum a little. So either float the amps or the phono, and it's best to float the amps. They also sound better that way, with all sources. I just wish I could find a really, really good cheater plug. Will steer clear from grounding solutions like the Altaira.
stevebythebay
New member
Yep! Wish it was “safe” to simply rewire my two dedicated 20 amp circuits for the mono blocks to avoid cheaters. So, I’ve been using some from Synergistic Research I got years ago. But there may be others.
- Thread Author
- #37
What you point out is exactly why you must use a dealer who's been trained by Shunyata to visit you with their kit of CG and SG and all the possible cabling and tails of various types and lengths. This is not just a simple matter of plug 'n play.
Sorry if that's a bit disconcerting, but that's reality. I've had my share of try and buy which often leads to making quick and ultimately poor decisions. If you cannot or are unwilling to do so, then don't bother. As is often said at the gym - "no pain, no gain".
EXACTLY! No dealer has been trained. We will be the first on Wednesday. No dealer should have attempted this without certification.
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- Thread Author
- #38
[emoji848] The training docs were just finished.
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- Thread Author
- #39
Fingers crossed! I passionately believe in grounding, I’ve heard the differences, so it will be worth it.
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