Room friendly speakers

iosiP said:
Hi Mike,

I would suggest Martin Logan CLX ART (provided they fit under the roof), supplemented with a pair of Martin Logan Descent subwoofers (with the dedicated crossover for the CLX).
I just set up such a system in a mean room - all drywall and resonating like a tubular bell - and the results were great. And once you hear "electrostatic bass" I guarantee everything else will sound muddy.
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Very nice!

What about the new ML's?
 
MRJAZZ said:
One thing you might want to consider (short of a new room, and the resultant expenses, both from the build out and possible increased tax assessment ), is to pull up the current floor. Than have your carpenter put in a new series of floor joists. Leave the current ones in place, but just add new ones between the current ones. So if your joists are now at the "standard" 16 inches apart, you will now have a joist every eight inches. Than put a new, two inch thick floor over all this. This should "tighten" up things considerably .
You also might want to explore speakers like the ones already mentioned (THE VANDYS) that have "bass management" capability ( some of our speakers also have this capability). With a built in bass amp, and parametric EQ available you will be able to probably tame your problem to a rather substantial degree. This bass management would only cover the low frequency's and you will still be using your main amps to drive the rest of the range. Could be an interesting option.
CHEERS...............T.
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Thanks. I will definitely look into this. After several exhausting hours, everything is back in place. D'ags are on the Raidho's downstairs and Cary's are on the Alexia's upstairs. The Cary's on the Alexia's has a lot left bass/mid bass punch - which is just fine for my room. Almost by accident rather than plan, I listened with the speakers toed in a lot less and that helped things too (since it was not pointing as much to the side wall).
 
GaryProtein said:
That is very unlikely.

Your low and severely angled ceiling on both sides of the room really is the problem. Also, you really do not want to have the speakers on the long wall and yourself sitting against the opposite wall.
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I'm not keen on that, however, building a proper listening room on the back side of the house ($150k option) got thumbs up from management (wife). Just one small problem. That whole $150k thing.... Something to save for.
 
CPP said:
We did our floor ourselves. The floor joist were correctly installed so we just added bulk to the weak floor. 3/4 plywood and 1/2 soundboard.

Don't expect a miracle fix. it did not correct the weak bass in the room or the reflections on the sloped walls but it did make the floor solid. The only way we could get any decent sound was positioning the speakers at the longest end not at the width. The speakers set facing the short sloped wall will create a bouncing effect from the forward wall to the rear sloped wall. Room measurements will show this. We treated the slopes and the ceilings but the " look" was odd not to mention the headroom was reduced.


Mike hope whatever you try works out.
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I agree with you Chris; in Mike's situation (and mine too by the way, but not to the same extent as my ceiling is 11 feet high at the center and 8.25 feet high at both sides, plus the system is set along the long wall, just like Mike did this morning, but I have five feet behind my speakers to the front wall, and five feet behind my ears to the rear wall) solidifying the floor is not all ends to the final solution.
{I would have prefer the short wall but I compromised for other decor/furniture practical related priorities.}

And I did mention contacting a professional acoustician, among other suggestions that he can try but for free (proper positioning of the speakers and listener, based on solid acoustical/mathematical foundations - proven science).
And that, I experimented with (fractions of 1/3rd, 1/5th, 1/7th, 1/9th, 1/11th and their multiples).

* One sloping wall is manageable, two as well but with more astuteness's requirement.
And what MR JAZZ (and myself) also suggested is bass DSP EQ (parametric or FIR or IIR filters). ...And a pro acoustician can also help in the mid-high frequencies.
If Mike is very serious about all this, and I believe he's pretty relaxed and simply more curious right now at the easiest solutions (like alternate pair of loudspeakers for that room, and not dealing with major room's modification), he might contact a competent acoustician for an assessment of his room, and work with him on the possible solutions with the less stress possible (and expense as well), and some good old fashion and judicious room treatments mixed with smart digital EQ.

We're just talking.

P.S. In Mike's room I would use the short wall (main window above his garage); just like he did from the very beginning.
 
Mike said:
I'm not keen on that, however, building a proper listening room on the back side of the house ($150k option) got thumbs up from management (wife). Just one small problem. That whole $150k thing.... Something to save for.
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Do the ceiling / roof thing. It won't cost anywhere near as much as a whole addition and your tax base will stay the same.
 
I listened to his Alexia's the other night, and was mighty impressed with them. They do not seem to cause near the problems as the D3's. I thought the D3's were even a bit ripe downstairs, and it is a much friendlier space than upstairs. I hear some of the magic the D3's are capable of, but the midbass/bass can be problematic from my short listening time with them. I would take the easy road and keep the Alexia's....then enjoy the awesome library you have !!
But if you insist......contact Bob Hoodas. He sets up world class studios/rooms, from what I've heard. Or, contact Nyal Mellor. He is an expert trainer for the DEQX HDP-4 (which you have....correct ??). He can train you via webinar, set your system remotely via computer, or fly-in. He charges $125.00 an hour, and said he could have me operating the DEQX unit within an hour. That is WAY CHEAPER than some of the options you mentioned in this thread. Plus you would gain an immense amount of understanding about your room/system. Maybe I can come up to speed on my DEQX in the next few weeks, and give you a hand (or a bigger mess than you have now). I'll help any way I can. But only one speaker move per day, please......those stairs are a bear !!!!

Jerry-
 
JDLaudio said:
I listened to his Alexia's the other night, and was mighty impressed with them. They do not seem to cause near the problems as the D3's. I thought the D3's were even a bit ripe downstairs, and it is a much friendlier space than upstairs. I hear some of the magic the D3's are capable of, but the midbass/bass can be problematic from my short listening time with them. I would take the easy road and keep the Alexia's....then enjoy the awesome library you have !!
But if you insist......contact Bob Hoodas. He sets up world class studios/rooms, from what I've heard. Or, contact Nyal Mellor. He is an expert trainer for the DEQX HDP-4 (which you have....correct ??). He can train you via webinar, set your system remotely via computer, or fly-in. He charges $125.00 an hour, and said he could have me operating the DEQX unit within an hour. That is WAY CHEAPER than some of the options you mentioned in this thread. Plus you would gain an immense amount of understanding about your room/system. Maybe I can come up to speed on my DEQX in the next few weeks, and give you a hand (or a bigger mess than you have now). I'll help any way I can. But only one speaker move per day, please......those stairs are a bear !!!!

Jerry-
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Jerry - thanks for your help the other night. Yes, those stairs are a bear! You should have seen us getting the Aida's up and down those stairs. Yowser! I'm glad Brent was over to help on the second run. As a side, John came over last night and helped me move them back down.

Now speaking of the D3's downstairs, can you define "ripe"? Personally, I love them downstairs. They have all the magic. My challenge for them is just finding a nice little integrated (unless I stick with the Rowland S2 which is currently leading the pack). The Devialet 500 (and converted to 800 a day later after the firmware upgraded) was a HUGE disappointment. It flat out ran out of gas at a paltry 91db @ 1 meter! It gets all noisy and hissy sounding just before that and then CLICK! Off goes the speakers. WTF? "Lots of horsepower, but no torque" as my friend says. Meanwhile, on the D3's, my 70 watt Cary 845/300b amps drive the D3's BEYOND 95db. So yes, I guess the 50 watt tube amp claim on the Raidho website IS true. Crazy. Maybe you can bring your VAC amp down. I would LOVE to try it. I heard Jeff's VAC PA100/100 on the original D3's and it was sheer magic.

The Alexia's with the Cary's upstairs I know were your favorite. It truly is a magical combination. I know in a better room, the D'Agostino on the Alexia's would probably come out ahead. But the bass in my room needs a light touch - like you get from a moderate powered 845/300b tube amp.

The folks from DEQX are going to give me a hand with the HDP-4. The delay has been on my part. The thought of installing Windows on my Mac keeps me awake at night! :) But I will get around to it for sure.
 
Mike said:
I'm not keen on that, however, building a proper listening room on the back side of the house ($150k option) got thumbs up from management (wife). Just one small problem. That whole $150k thing.... Something to save for.
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Mike, In my opinion, building the new room is hands down the best solution. Only then will you be getting what you truly want..........a great sounding room !
 
MDP said:
Mike, In my opinion, building the new room is hands down the best solution. Only then will you be getting what you truly want..........a great sounding room !
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Mike, don't do as I did and blow money on attempting to fix an acoustical unbalance at least I have actual experience in a room just like yours maybe a little smaller, 14'w x 20'l x 9'h. Just in materials it took 10 sheets of 3/4 plywood just for the floor @ $20.00 a sheet (contractor price) $200.00, then adding 10 bundles of Corning acoustical insulation @ 67.00 ea. $670.00 and that was just to fix the weak floor and deaden the sound from the garage. Adding acoustical panels to the slopes, corners, ceilings cost $1435.00 from GIK. And none of these cost included any labor, nails, chalk etc.. ... In total we spent $5740.00 as I had to pay my contractor friend for labor and hauling away the old flooring. ( FYI if you do replace the floor, don't forget increasing the height of the floor will cause you to modify your baseboards and possibly your wall height so stay with the same thickness of flooring.)

Modification to the ceiling as some noted, it not going to work, unless you are a midget and like low ceiling which is going to prevent any tower speaker from pushing the air and if you have residing in your ceiling light, fans , beams all have to be modified and moved which is an additional expense that will require some thought and additional insulation, new electrical runs and maybe even AC vent and AC return relocation which means in Fla a licensed electrician and AC person is going to require a permit.

After all of the work we did, it didn't resolve the unbalance with these matching wall slopes, it looked cool, but not worth the money for the really small result. But in the end before we sold the home and moved back to Fla to retire, the acoustic panels removed of course and the room turned into a nice FROG. Now I have a garage full of acoustic panels I'm begging the wife to let me put up in her ( the house is always theirs) retirement home at the beach.

Chris
 
Mike said:
The Alexia's with the Cary's upstairs I know were your favorite. It truly is a magical combination. I know in a better room, the D'Agostino on the Alexia's would probably come out ahead. But the bass in my room needs a light touch - like you get from a moderate powered 845/300b tube amp.
.
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since doug isnt around i will say it....
thats because TUBES RULE!!! :D

interesting thread i will be curious of your outcome and what steps you take to fix your issues. dont forget if you need to do any building im sure we can get a crew together to come help out. you get the permit stuff taken care of(elec,plumbing, structural) and all the rest is easy. im always on call for a fun project like that. (except roofing,lol)and can and will build anything that doesnt require a florida contractors license. best of luck with it.
 
JDLaudio said:
I listened to his Alexia's the other night, and was mighty impressed with them. They do not seem to cause near the problems as the D3's. I thought the D3's were even a bit ripe downstairs, and it is a much friendlier space than upstairs. I hear some of the magic the D3's are capable of, but the midbass/bass can be problematic from my short listening time with them. I would take the easy road and keep the Alexia's....then enjoy the awesome library you have !!
But if you insist......contact Bob Hoodas. He sets up world class studios/rooms, from what I've heard. Or, contact Nyal Mellor. He is an expert trainer for the DEQX HDP-4 (which you have....correct ??). He can train you via webinar, set your system remotely via computer, or fly-in. He charges $125.00 an hour, and said he could have me operating the DEQX unit within an hour. That is WAY CHEAPER than some of the options you mentioned in this thread. Plus you would gain an immense amount of understanding about your room/system. Maybe I can come up to speed on my DEQX in the next few weeks, and give you a hand (or a bigger mess than you have now). I'll help any way I can. But only one speaker move per day, please......those stairs are a bear !!!!

Jerry-
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Mike,

Bruce from Stillpoints is a good friend of Bob Hoodas.
Do you want to get in touch with Him?
 
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