Room friendly speakers

Consider Audio Note speakers. They are designed to be place in or near the corners of the room.

Mike, do you have hard wood, tile or carpeted floors?
 
I agree with avoiding property tax reassessments. However sound improvements of floor and subfloor should and could b done without permits as u r just improving stability of structure. Did any of your room analysis provide insight as to whether this is a floor or reflectivity issue with the ceiling. It sucks that so many of your speakers can thrive in your family room but not upstairs. Ultimately I think room changes not a roulette wheel of great speakers seems like a better direction. Curious why down firing subs would b a consideration as I thought that might augment the floor issues. However Zellaton has down firing subs as an option on several models. BTW have you seen the new Pantheon model by Gryphon. AMT type tweeter with big bass capability but relatively friendly footprint.
Good luck
Nick

Roulette
 
In my opinion based on what I have seen and heard thus far, there is no such thing as "room friendly speakers" by name. There are efficient speakers, but again that in no way implies that they can sound good in any room. They tend to adapt a little better, but it's still the room, period. It always will be the room. Changing speakers isn't going to solve the problem. Placement usually makes differences.
I'm surprised that after all the work and experts and money that your still having big problems with the room. At least it is a treatable room. Perhaps you over-corrected? Something to think about or take a look at anyway.
If they are floor standing speakers, perhaps some spikes may change things a little, provided you can use spikes.
 
Steve, those were great points about the construction of Mike's above garage room. I bet if he took your advice and reinforced the floor and added some insulation to the walls,along with maybe some sheetrock work in the walls it might really help things.
 
Mike said:
Mike - no options for adjusting the roof line - that corresponds with the roof of the house. I could raise the roof (no pun intended)....but again - that's major expense.

Tried the long wall this morning...

View attachment 6260

Sounds better.


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After seeing a picture of your room, it looks a lot what my old room looked like. P10_3rdBedroom FROG.JPG Well I hate to tell ya, we couldn't get the room to come to grips with sound no mater how we moved the speakers and chairs around, to include adding wall and ceiling treatments and adding soundboard to the floor. We (I) just took over the den and put my audio equipment in there. We turned the FROG (formal room over garage) into a "extra bedroom. The only speaker that I had that worked really good in that room was my J.M. Reynaud Offrande Supreme V2. But the wifey wanted the room for a "room", so to the den I went.
 
Mike said:
Tried the long wall this morning...

View attachment 6260

Sounds better.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I don't know exactly where your speakers and you were before in relation to positioning; from the front wall, but you can try five feet (front speakers' plane) from the front wall, and fifteen feet from that same front wall (your ears at the listening chair).
...Or to be more precise 1/5 and 3/5 of your room's length, respectively.

And 2.8 feet from each side wall (from the speaker's center). ...Fifths again.

And you the listener; 6.8 feet from one side wall and 7.2 feet from the other. ...Fractions of 1/35th.

Also, how high is your ceiling, exactly? ...That would also determine your ear's height in relation too with the central focus point of your speakers (aim).

* Just a simple suggestion, and it's fun to experiment with.
 
Mike said:
View attachment 6260
Click to expand...

Have you considered ripping off the roof and building the room with a higher flat ceiling?

I think your notably angled ceiling on both sides is the main problem. 25 x 14 is a good size and I would definitely keep the speakers on the short wall. It't the shape of the ceiling, not the dimensions.

That would keep the square footage and footprint the same, cost a lot less than adding a new room and probably not affect your taxes.
 
GaryProtein said:
Have you considered ripping off the roof and building the room with a flat ceiling?

That would keep the square footage and footprint the same, cost a lot less than adding a new room and probably not affect your taxes.
Click to expand...

Yes...that is an option for sure.


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NorthStar said:
Interesting. I don't know exactly where your speakers and you were before in relation to positioning; from the front wall, but you can try five feet (front speakers' plane) from the front wall, and fifteen feet from that same front wall (your ears at the listening chair).
...Or to be more precise 1/5 and 3/5 of your room's length, respectively.

And 2.8 feet from each side wall (from the speaker's center). ...Fifths again.

And you the listener; 6.8 feet from one side wall and 7.2 feet from the other. ...Fractions of 1/35th.

Also, how high is your ceiling, exactly? ...That would also determine your ear's height in relation too with the central focus point of your speakers (aim).

* Just a simple suggestion, and it's fun to experiment with.
Click to expand...

Thanks Bob, I will try that. Ceiling is 8 feet in the middle. Slopes about 4 feet down on sides.


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Mike said:
Yes...that is an option for sure.


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Doing a flat ceiling, well since I had a room just like yours, my ceiling height was 9 ft slopes to 5ft. If you view your side walls, to bring that ceiling to some sort of attractive offering it is still going to shorten your ceiling height and cause some unwanted reflections in all directions, not to mention unless your a short person it's going to be uncomfortable. From what could gather from my experience, it was the slope in the side walls that drove my sound "nuts' and treating that slope reduced the width of my room. This type of room is difficult to achieve really good sound... Like I noted above we rebuilt the floor using 3/4" plywood and soundboard.
 
Mike said:
Thanks Bob, I will try that. Ceiling is 8 feet in the middle. Slopes about 4 feet down on sides.
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You'd be sitting under that 8 feet height, so try 3.2 feet (38.4") from the floor (your ears). ...Too high? ...Then try 2.66 feet (32") from the floor.
Too low? ...Try 41.1"
Too high? ...Try 34.9"

Height is tough because you have already a seat, but your butt can be adjusted; pillow under or not, is it a recliner seat, do you center in it or against the rear, etc., etc., etc. ...Plus some seats and some people together are mostly a moving target as we are humans and we do move (not a machine head inside a vise grip).

Anyway, those measurements are still sound.
 
Like the Professor said, something like the 5A Carbon with the built in subwoofer EQ system would let you adjust each speaker's bass module individually. Only problem is that I think Richard eliminated the last Florida dealer and you have to deal with Alan at Audio Alternative in Atlanta. He does have family that lives in that part of the state though.
 
CPP said:
Doing a flat ceiling, well since I had a room just like yours, my ceiling height was 9 ft slopes to 5ft. If you view your side walls, to bring that ceiling to some sort of attractive offering it is still going to shorten your ceiling height and cause some unwanted reflections in all directions, not to mention unless your a short person it's going to be uncomfortable. From what could gather from my experience, it was the slope in the side walls that drove my sound "nuts' and treating that slope reduced the width of my room. This type of room is difficult to achieve really good sound... Like I noted above we rebuilt the floor using 3/4" plywood and soundboard.
Click to expand...

I like your post Chris. I think Mike would do well to have an expert on acoustic above his garage. ...The room, the shape, the materials, the inside walls, ceiling and floor, the speakers themselves, ...
 
NorthStar said:
I like your post Chris. I think Mike would do well to have an expert on acoustic above his garage. ...The room, the shape, the materials, the inside walls, ceiling and floor, the speakers themselves, ...
Click to expand...

It was a costly affair, with no real success that would met someones expectations with the caliber of equipment Mike has, but at least when the garage doors opened the floor didn't vibrate anymore. :satisfying: I would rate the improvements we made a C+ at best using my larger Kef104/2, but with smaller speakers like I noted, it was a B+.
 
Perhaps Mike should investigate in a smaller system for that room?

Or go to another room? ...House? ...Town? ...Country? ;)

Seriously; tough rooms for sound enjoyment require tough measures sometimes. ...And that's why 'acousticians' were invented.
 
Mike, I'm no expert, but watching this thread gives me a growing concern that you may be on a slippery slope. It seems to me you may be caught or about to be caught in the all too familiar trap that most audiophiles get caught in at some point, of trying to pursue or reach perfection and as you know, it doesn't exist.

Now I read your getting ready to possibly take on tax issues, zoning/building laws and great expense to renovate your house in the pursuit of perfection in acoustic environment. Even if you have the money and all to do so it makes me a little worried because you'll ave done all that and end up no closer to perfect than you are now. You'll end up no longer enjoying what you have in both gear and music.

No house built in any year was built with sound systems in mind. Just the way things are. That's why we have room treatments, Room EQs, etc. These help us to improve the situation, but are not designed to give us the perfect room. Nothing will do that unless one specifically builds such a room from scratch and even then over time, our hearing changes and soon that room will sound off.

I guess I'm saying this because I'm not an audiophile and can look in from the outside because of that. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I just don't want to see you wasting huge amounts of money and effort only to end up being dissatisfied and in an endless loop of that as I have seen other Audiophiles I know end up in. I've known some who have gotten so bad as to sell off all their stuff and either plain give up or start over again and then keep doing that over and over, never even hearing one track of one album ever again because they just measure the gear to the room and get rid of it and do it again and again. They don't have time for music which means they don't have time to enjoy the gear.
If it ends up being a relatively simple fix then no worries.

~Eric
PS. Not being an Audiophile I also realize that there are aspects I don't understand and may never understand, but it also doesn't mean that I can't think rationally and still don't want to see people go through needless suffering.
 
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