This I can certainly agree with. I also agree that a good reviewer has a tough task to perform, regardless of whether I agree with the result.
Reviewer Rooms
- Thread starter Mike
- Start date
To start with, how many here actually understand the reviewers? Let's all pick the reviewers we read regularly. Do you guys know their background (audiophile background), preferences, tastes, how they evolved - so that you can benchmark/caiibrate your tastes to theirs?
a.wayne
Well-known member
Yes and No,
Reviewer 1:
Has a room full of Diffusors in a well designed room, how does that review tells you what any product will sound like in your listening/ living room.
Reviewer 2:
Has a poorly treated room and worse , it's full of clutter , how do you know if it will sound good in your newly treated SMT room ...
Reviewer 3:
Has everything reviewer 1 has plus he did all kind of gnd /panel/wiring schema plus battery supplies , how does this apply to you in your standard room with standard commercial wiring ..
Fact is the fully cluttered room may have the same decay and refraction as a well treated room , then there's reviewer biases, et al ...
IMO, What's important is how well do you know the reviewer and his biases , if you have a lot in common the review will be important to you , if not , the information provided is just more info for you to research deeper into a product you are researching...
Again , for me, I like to see multiple Subjective opinions on reviews , products being reviewed by one reviewer tells me nothing , with SP and others who test , there's both subjective and objective Reviews , these do tell a lot ...
Regards ..
a.wayne
Well-known member
It was tongue in cheek sir, LOL....
But with some products you can tell in 5 mins with experience , tweaking it to acceptability may require another 3-18 months thou, as the reviewer has to be fair to the product by investigating every angle ...
Regards ...
a.wayne
Well-known member
KeithR
Active member
I give reviewers the greatest importance who cater towards my taste in gear and in particular, music.
For instance, a jazz addict like Jack Roberts isn't a particularly good comp for me. Nor are guys who only listen to SS behemoths and never review tube gear.
Well, my blog is just designed for someone to follow an audiophile's journey, with easy access to preferences in gear and tastes, and how the gear search has evolved. Write-ups have links to other reviews to form a compendium. And as people keep reading and listen to some of that gear, somewhere they will be able to calibrate to the tastes and decide if they want to ride along. The emphasis is heavily classical as I believe in putting in 50 acoustic instruments through a component to test how it resolves complexity, and put in other acoustic instruments to check tone.
AJ Soundfield
Well-known member
Mandatory for me to even begin to take someones opinion seriously.
Where is your blog?
Zero-distortion.org
puroagave
Active member
the following pic is of Robert E Greene's listening room (Aka "REG") he was an esteemed writer for TAS during their heyday. I particularly like the attention paid to acoustic treatment of the ceiling. His speaker stands must really bring out all the salient qualities those Spendors can muster...and who needs a component rack, it will only serve to muck up the sound, just stack 'em. turntable isolation? that's for noobs, i'll just repurpose this ol' record rack as a TT stand. :lol:
mep
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2013
- Messages
- 5,086
Thanks, and it was in direct response to something Bonzo said:
The above comment was made in reference to the overall theme of this thread which was to make fun of some reviewer's listening rooms and that comment was another whack and even though it stated that as long as you have 8 weeks with the component in a bad room "you could analyse it," but of course the comment was tongue in cheek and implied something entirely different.
And then there is this disingenuous statement from Bonzo:
He may have not started this thread on AS, but he left out the part about how he cross-posted this thread on WBF so he could keep the "fun" going.
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?22629-Reviewer-rooms
Bonzo can say what he wants, but I find it strange that we have two people who don't even own a stereo system (and one of them hasn't had a system in years and yet that person is listed as "senior contributing reviewer" for a publication) and Bonzo is taking pot shots at both reviewers, their rooms, and now how many concerts you do or don't attend per year. And he can say he doesn't call what he does a review, but look here and it sure confuses things: http://http://zero-distortion.org/vivid_giya_and_amps/
In fact, his site looks and smells like an online audio review publication. So at what point does a "report" masquerade as a review? I'll leave that for others to judge.
And we already know that Bonzo's traveling partner has labeled his visits to homes and factories as reviews. Gryphon even came on WBF to comment on the visit being called a review and disavowed that interpretation.
The bottom line is that threads like this are nothing more than throwing red meat in the lions cage and standing back and watching the carnage. As I said before in another reviewer bashing thread on AS, many people love nothing more than to bash reviewers and threads like this one just light the fuse. Bonzo liked this thread so much he cross-posted it. You can ask yourself why. It just strikes me odd for all the reasons I stated previously.
- Thread Author
- #55
The last time I checked, the majority of products reviewed often cost as much as a car. The last time I checked, that was still a lot of money. If someone is going to make a buying decision without hearing the product themselves (trust me, it happens a lot), then they need to know the guy that raved about Pass X600.8 amps has a f*&%ing Oppo as his source and a pair of old $2000 speakers (example: http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...bs-x600-8-600-watt-monoblock-power-amplifier/) and that same person needs to know what the reviewers room at least looks like.
How on earth can anyone discuss imaging with speakers next to a shelf and a huge tall desk in the middle? If the reviewer with a questionable room starts saying your new $30,000 speakers don't image (you obviously disagree), wouldn't you want to know his listening environment in which he reached his conclusion?
This is not a "pile on the reviewers". This is looking at a few review environments with eyes wide open. Most people, like me, are still very interested in reading the reviews, but I think we should know the environment the components were reviewed in just as much as we should know about the associated equipment, music played and any technical discoveries (measurements).
IMHO, the room and setup is absolutely crucial.
NOW, to be fair, there is a counter argument to all of this. One could argue that the substandard rooms we see from some reviewers is actually more of an accurate reflection of what many buyers are required to live with in the real world. Not everyone can have a perfectly treated dedicated room. Some are forced to do the best they can with what they have, especially given the preferences of that special someone they live with and therefore, a review from a "less than perfect" room may have more significance for the buyer.
How on earth can anyone discuss imaging with speakers next to a shelf and a huge tall desk in the middle? If the reviewer with a questionable room starts saying your new $30,000 speakers don't image (you obviously disagree), wouldn't you want to know his listening environment in which he reached his conclusion?
This is not a "pile on the reviewers". This is looking at a few review environments with eyes wide open. Most people, like me, are still very interested in reading the reviews, but I think we should know the environment the components were reviewed in just as much as we should know about the associated equipment, music played and any technical discoveries (measurements).
IMHO, the room and setup is absolutely crucial.
NOW, to be fair, there is a counter argument to all of this. One could argue that the substandard rooms we see from some reviewers is actually more of an accurate reflection of what many buyers are required to live with in the real world. Not everyone can have a perfectly treated dedicated room. Some are forced to do the best they can with what they have, especially given the preferences of that special someone they live with and therefore, a review from a "less than perfect" room may have more significance for the buyer.
Attachments
The last time I checked, the majority of products reviewed often cost as much as a car. The last time I checked, that was still a lot of money. If someone is going to make a buying decision without hearing the product themselves (trust me, it happens a lot), then they need to know the guy that raved about Pass X600.8 amps has a f*&%ing Oppo as his source and a pair of old $2000 speakers (example: http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...bs-x600-8-600-watt-monoblock-power-amplifier/) and that same person needs to know what the reviewers room at least looks like.
How on earth can anyone discuss imaging with speakers next to a shelf and a huge tall desk in the middle? If the reviewer with a questionable room starts saying your new $30,000 speakers don't image (you obviously disagree), wouldn't you want to know his listening environment in which he reached his conclusion?
This is not a "pile on the reviewers". This is looking at a few review environments with eyes wide open. Most people, like me, are still very interested in reading the reviews, but I think we should know the environment the components were reviewed in just as much as we should know about the associated equipment, music played and any technical discoveries (measurements).
IMHO, the room and setup is absolutely crucial.
NOW, to be fair, there is a counter argument to all of this. One could argue that the substandard rooms we see from some reviewers is actually more of an accurate reflection of what many buyers are required to live with in the real world. Not everyone can have a perfectly treated dedicated room. Some are forced to do the best they can with what they have, especially given the preferences of that special someone they live with and therefore, a review from a "less than perfect" room may have more significance for the buyer.
Some of the rooms are best described as hovels. Pig pens. Others are so "architecturally interesting" that they have very unpredictable acoustics. RT60 measurements and some photos need to be posted along with associated equipment if the reviews are to have ANY CREDIBILITY. They are the self proclaimed EXPERTS. I will not accept that they can "listen around the room" with any real accuracy. I've got a rather interesting collection of many of the reviewers / editors rooms. They are claiming to be the experts and are getting paid for their opinion, as well as many "perks" or "industry accommodations" as possible in some cases.
For them to invest in some proper room treatments and post the measurements & photographs is not an unreasonable requirement in my opinion. The room can be in excess of 50% of the sound in many cases.
Bart
a.wayne
Well-known member
Careful now , 
RT60, Room measurements , ha !
Sounds like we are back to measurements matter or is this Just another spin on the cognitive dissonance audiophile wheel of love ...
Anyway,
Why not a shot of the reviewer ear Drums while we are it , after all isnt that what counts the most, i mean what if the reviewer is deaf or have a treble clef ear ..
:roflmao:
PS: A popular mag many moons ago did have a partially deaf reviewer ....
RT60, Room measurements , ha !
Sounds like we are back to measurements matter or is this Just another spin on the cognitive dissonance audiophile wheel of love ...
Anyway,
Why not a shot of the reviewer ear Drums while we are it , after all isnt that what counts the most, i mean what if the reviewer is deaf or have a treble clef ear ..
:roflmao:
PS: A popular mag many moons ago did have a partially deaf reviewer ....
BlueFox
New member
I agree with this part. I think many times when 'the room' is thrown out it is a red herring. Of course the room is important, but as long as it isn't four bare walls, empty, and without carpet it is probably okay. Not everyone has a dedicated room that can be optimized for whatever system is currently being used.
I live in my house, and my stereo is part of that life. While I try to integrate it into the room, at some point it is what it is. Personally, my feeling is if a piece of gear needs a dedicated, optimized room to sound good then that gear is a POS.
When I was at Magico and Alon was demonstrating the difference between the S5 and S7, I said during the S5 part "This sounds like my S5", and he says "That's the idea". LOL. What I meant was I didn't have a big isolated, dedicated, and optimized listening room. Just the living room in the left third of the front of my house. Of course, my living room only sounds that good late at night after all the ambient noise dies down, but still I was very happy that night as I listened to my stereo.
a.wayne
Well-known member
Btw Mike,
This review is much better than you are giving credit to
http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...bs-x600-8-600-watt-monoblock-power-amplifier/
Both his subjective and later objective bench measurments play into a lot of what he is saying in his listening review. what was good to see is the distortion spectra at HF as he increases voltage gain , also the PASS distortion curve and knee is almost identical in shape for both
8/4 ohm operation ...
Means the amp will most likely have similar timbre regardless if having to drive an 8/4 load , many amplifiers fail when ask to do so ..
Thanks for the link ....
Regards
This review is much better than you are giving credit to
http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...bs-x600-8-600-watt-monoblock-power-amplifier/
Both his subjective and later objective bench measurments play into a lot of what he is saying in his listening review. what was good to see is the distortion spectra at HF as he increases voltage gain , also the PASS distortion curve and knee is almost identical in shape for both
8/4 ohm operation ...
Means the amp will most likely have similar timbre regardless if having to drive an 8/4 load , many amplifiers fail when ask to do so ..
Thanks for the link ....
Regards
Sorry, there is no travel partner. On that site, Ron is part of one review.
So all your innuendos are meaningless. Most of those are not reviews, but reports of visits I had made to forum members, cut pasted from past forum reports. Are forum reports of critical evaluations reviews? Maybe
All you have done by highlighting the vivid link is shown that the word review was used interchangeably with report. And the reason it hasn't been published, btw, is that unlike small room reviewers - I am waiting to garner much more data. Went to a large room for vivid multichannel, been to a couple of other rooms with different amps, waiting to hear one with a valve. I expected that to happen, it didn't, so I haven't published.
At what point does a report masquerade as review? When you audiophiles visit someone, sometimes it's a report. Sometimes it is a critical evaluation of what you would would want to buy yourself. Is that a review? Maybe. Definitely not in a stereophile TAS sense