REL - which one?

A friend who is more knowledgeable in this area did it for me. He used the same program as Alan and upgraded mics. He tried multiple mic positions to gain a consensus. The data was then sent to Jeff who worked with vicioustics and ASC to devise a plan.

I am probably going with stillpoints for my Alexia's and then probably under my preamp and sources to start.

I will also add that Stillpoints are speaker and component dependent. A friend of mine added them under his S5's and said they sucked the life out of his system and made it dry sounding....hence the reason Magico does not recommend them. That being said, I'm hoping for good reports for the Stillpoints under Alexia's. They aren't an insignificant investment....but apparently, a good one.

Room measurements - OK thanks. I'm sure it will make a difference, just moving furniture or adding items makes a difference. :)

These new StillPoint panels have really peaked my interest

StillPoints - wow you are just going for it, hopefully you will place under your speaker first and then post what differences be it positive or not and then add others at different intervals to then again gage what effects they have to offer.

Magico, interesting result of your friend.
 
The new Stillpoint panels look interesting, but in this area, they will face a lot more competition....

"No Bass Traps". Hmmm....this flies into the face of common held beliefs.

http://youtu.be/b1dzNMkWuqg


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Hi Allen,

Also wanted to add due to the seating position being that far away and speaker set-up in general wonder what type of listening stage there really is, is it just a diffused wall of sound.

Have you heard this set-up?
 
The new Stillpoint panels look interesting, but in this area, they will face a lot more competition....

"No Bass Traps". Hmmm....this flies into the face of common held beliefs.

Stillpoints, Bruce Jacobs, Stillpoints Room Panels - YouTube


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I agree - personally when they spoke of that I was shaking my heard and felt they lost some credibility but sure would like to hear it proven - hearing is believing.
 
Hi Allen,

Also wanted to add due to the seating position being that far away and speaker set-up in general wonder what type of listening stage there really is, is it just a diffused wall of sound.

Have you heard this set-up?

Haha, yes, it's not definitely not an ideal 2 channel setup by any means, I only used it to show how good it could look when the treatments are integrated into the design of the room. And it is a HT setup, too.

Btw, the bowing on the top and bottom pieces, those are Vicoustics Cinema Premium panels that come that way out of the box.
 
Btw, the bowing on the top and bottom pieces, those are Vicoustics Cinema Premium panels that come that way out of the box.

Ya a friend just got a few boxes of their product with the same, hummm! His intentions to place them above each other also, I recommended he look into get some pvc "H" channel and slide between. Comes in different sizes "thickness" and colours but not sure if this will help because I haven't seen nor touched the product in person. Do you know why they are warped, look like this?
 
I would always say you should have stereo subs in 2 ch high end systems like with the Alexia.

As far as bass. It all depends what you are happy with. And every room reacts differently. But for example in Stereophiles review of the Alexia they measured 12db down at 20hz. That's huge. They are 3db down at 40hz. And sonically this is complicated by a bass hump at a +5 db at 60 hz. That is a steep roll off.

To me, for this level of system it is loosing far too much. Quality subs are the only way to fix it. I'm certainly aren't saying that you have to get Wilson's sub since their entry level starts at $12,000 each and you need to add an amp.



Isn't the idea of using subs for full range speakers twofold? First, if needed, to give the speaker the bottom most octave (which we really don't hear as much as we feel), and second, and I think more importantly, especially when used in pairs, to deal/cancel room nodes/resonances at the difficult bottom frequencies that could be smearing the mids on up?

If you take the time to optimize the Alexia to the room, I don't think the Alexia is in need of additional bass (the first reason). I'm not 100% sure as I don't have my speakers yet. But if the Alexia/room interaction is such that you have low end challenges they might be handled by adding a pair of subs.

Mike, I would wait until all the acoustic treatments are in, the power is cleaned up and the Stillpoints are on. Then use your ears and maybe another set of measurements to determine if you need them (want is another question:P). Just my $.02.
 
Each time I auditioned the Alexias I never felt it needed more bass. But once I get it in my room it may be a different story.

Yes, that bump around 50-60hz has me worried. I think I may have some resonance there already, or slightly higher. Hard to tell without direct measurements. Careful positioning at first, and if that doesn't solve anything, 2 subs may be required as you say.
 
Isn't the idea of using subs for full range speakers twofold? First, if needed, to give the speaker the bottom most octave (which we really don't hear as much as we feel), and second, and I think more importantly, especially when used in pairs, to deal/cancel room nodes/resonances at the difficult bottom frequencies that could be smearing the mids on up?

If you take the time to optimize the Alexia to the room, I don't think the Alexia is in need of additional bass (the first reason). I'm not 100% sure as I don't have my speakers yet. But if the Alexia/room interaction is such that you have low end challenges they might be handled by adding a pair of subs...

Here's my current XTZ plot after implementing a single sub (ML BalancedForce 210) to deal with a deep 60Hz null at my primary listening position.

BassSummits+BF210.jpg

I placed the sub along a mid side wall, and haven't really dialed it in yet (needs more break-in first). However, it's already served it's purpose without even using the room EQ option (which I'll start playing with soon). Of note, the green trace is the "before" measurement (with ML Summits alone) and the blue trace is "after" adding the sub.

This clearly illustrates that even a single sub, properly placed, can help overcome room nulls or modes. At this point, I don't think I'll add a 2nd sub for stereo playback, but will likely use my old NHT Sub Two for additional LFE in home theater mode.
 
Here's my current XTZ plot after implementing a single sub (ML BalancedForce 210) to deal with a deep 60Hz null at my primary listening position.

View attachment 5116

I placed the sub along a mid side wall, and haven't really dialed it in yet (needs more break-in first). However, it's already served it's purpose without even using the room EQ option (which I'll start playing with soon). Of note, the green trace is the "before" measurement (with ML Summits alone) and the blue trace is "after" adding the sub.

This clearly illustrates that even a single sub, properly placed, can help overcome room nulls or modes. At this point, I don't think I'll add a 2nd sub for stereo playback, but will likely use my old NHT Sub Two for additional LFE in home theater mode.
Before the sub is broken in you should try and get the timing/phasing in line. Not sure if or how a graph would show that. What I mean is you DO NOT want the sub leading or lagging the main speakers. I think if that isn't set up properly most folks who don't care for subs this would be a very valid reason. I've only used my ears and times when I thought I had it right I really didn't. One trick that works for me is to set the crossover a little on the high side along with the gain. I find with the sub being somewhat pronounced it's a little easier to hear if it's leading or lagging the main speakers. Then readjust the crossover point. The gain is a little more tricky. Listen to many different types of music before making a final decision. What may sound right for music with little sub bass is most likely too much for the music that really goes to the bottom octave.
Just my 2 cents
 
Here's my current XTZ plot after implementing a single sub (ML BalancedForce 210) to deal with a deep 60Hz null at my primary listening position.

View attachment 5116

I placed the sub along a mid side wall, and haven't really dialed it in yet (needs more break-in first). However, it's already served it's purpose without even using the room EQ option (which I'll start playing with soon). Of note, the green trace is the "before" measurement (with ML Summits alone) and the blue trace is "after" adding the sub.

This clearly illustrates that even a single sub, properly placed, can help overcome room nulls or modes. At this point, I don't think I'll add a 2nd sub for stereo playback, but will likely use my old NHT Sub Two for additional LFE in home theater mode.


That is a pretty good reading, I'd be happy too!
 
Hey Mike,

I could bring my (2) REL 528SE's down for a weekend for you to try out. But sometimes it takes a couple of weeks worth of (constant experimentation) to get them truly dialed in. Not sure I would want my system down that long ?? But....let's see...uh....I've been wanting to arrange a demo of the Alexia's in my house......hmmmm. Just kidding. Those would be a bear to move. But I could arrange a weekend if ya want. Maybe bring the new PS Audio Direct Stream DAC and those REL's for a weekend ??
 
How about you just come down for a listen? Anytime! I've owned REL subs before. Love them!


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Wasn't sure if you were still wanting to try the REL subs in your system as this link suggested ?? I will give your Alexia's a better listen when I bring the Direct Stream down your way.
Thanks.........Jerry-
 
I'm looking forward to hearing that Jerry.


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Ive had last year the R528SE (sold it, wrong move...) now this last week I had the chance to hear a G2. Oh man that is a great, great sub, the integration with the main speakers is seamless, they bring the performance of my Mojo to a level I couldn't predict.
Sorry for resurrecting this old thread, but I just had to say it :)
If you haven't listened to the G2, make yourself a favour and DO IT! ;)
 
The REL's integrate VERY well. And yes, the 528 SE (special editions), were a limited edition series that played way above their price point. I have (3) for sale, if anyone needs a great sub. My new speakers plumb the depths, so the subwoofers are not needed. I have two piano black 528 SE's, and (1) gloss white 528 SE. Take your pick at $1600 each.

Jerry-
 
Has anyone carefully compared the G1 to the Studio III? (i suspect the Studio III is superior to the G1 in low frquency extension and sound pressure level.)
 
I just added a REL 212SE to my system and ended up keeping the S5 i had to use on the lt side of my system. I had one of the REL VPs come over to set up the room to ideal sound. He spent about 2 hrs and the result is just amazing. At some point i will swap out the S5 for a second 212SE.
 
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